Americans now are in George Orwell's 1984

[cernjSHU]

Actually, it was not a good look for all three today. That’s not a news flash.

Remains to be seen how this plays out. I wonder how the public feels about this and continuing to fund a war after this.

But cern let’s be honest. The war could end tomorrow and you wouldn’t give Trump an ounce of credit.

Can you just stop defending Trump at the indefensible. What we saw today was JD and Trump bullying Z. And then Trump throws him out

It’s like a woman who was raped going to the police station looking for help. And the police then badgering her to grovel on her knees for their help. Then the police throw her out because she refuse to give them oral sex. Remember Ukraine is the victim here and that is how you treat a victim?? It’s absolutely horrendous.

 

[shu09]

Ukraine has every right to fight, but does the U.S. have an obligation to fund it with an open check book and support the continued military and civilian casualties?

I’m rooting for peace also with a solution that ends up being acceptable for all parties. I’m pretty sure you’ll be unhappy with any solution, even if it means that criteria. That’s pretty sad.

This, well said. If Ukraine wants to keep "fighting to the death" (as their generals have said), go ahead. They have every right to do that. Just don't come to us anymore for weapons and money. This has gone on long enough and there needs to be a peaceful end.

 

[shu09]

Tell us you've never read the book or at least understood it without telling us. My goodness.

Biden had a direct censorship line with Facebook , Twitter , etc to shutdown memes and any dissent of the government directives.
Biden had 52 intelligence agents swear that the Hunter Biden laptop story was Russian Psyops. Anyone who said otherwise was banned on social media. Same went for anyone who stated that Covid was a lab leak.
Biden's handlers had a media team gas light anybody who though he wasnn't sharp as a tack until the debate when they couldn't cover for him.
Telling Americans that Trump was colluding with Russia for years.

All right out of Orwell. Did you forget that.

That was Orwellian. Not calling someone a dictator. FFS!

The scariest thing is you have actual heads of state in Europe and prominent people in a major political party (US Democrats) constantly parroting Orwellian terms like "misinformation" and "disinformation" in mainstream conversation. VP Vance called out the UK PM to his face yesterday on this, much like he put Zelenskyy in his place today.

 

[HALL85]

Can you just stop defending Trump at the indefensible. What we saw today was JD and Trump bullying Z. And then Trump throws him out

In your world, anyone that doesn’t trash Trump 24/7 is “defending” him. Laughable.

It’s like a woman who was raped going to the police station looking for help. And the police then badgering her to grovel on her knees for their help. Then the police throw her out because she refuse to give them oral sex. Remember Ukraine is the victim here and that is how you treat a victim?? It’s absolutely horrendous.

Another absurd analogy.

 

[Rockaway]

probably need replacement for Zelensky to get an end to war.He has a chip on his shoulder and he obviously gave indication he would sign agreement as first step and then security discussions with US and Europe would follow but he decided to make
Security the main discussion topic.

 

[SHallguy2]

Does anyone honestly think Trump sides were not convinced Zelenskyy was coming to sign minerals deal.Zelensky sandbagged them and that drew the reaction.Zelensky thinks he should decide to continue war or not if he doesn’t get what he wants let him continue the war without our aid.

Zelensky was acting like a billionaire, I’m sure he’s slipped a billion or 2 into his pocket. He seems to like all the attention. It would not surprise me that when the money dries up the war ends. Looks like we are about to find out.

 

[HALL85]

Make no mistake. EU countries want this war to end and they also realize that Zelensky is no angel. They know he sabotaged the Nordstream pipeline that created a mess with their energy costs. They also recognize Putin for who he is.

They also are obviously most concerned with Russia given the regional proximity. Short term - does Putin escalate and fire a missle into a neighboring country? Long term - Does he feel emboldened by what the outcome is. They know the U.S. has to take the lead on this and they are overly dependent on our military support.

No doubt they are nervous on how Trump is handling this for those reasons, but he is taking the attention away from them so they can virtue signal to their constituents.

 

[cernjSHU]

Make no mistake. EU countries want this war to end and they also realize that Zelensky is no angel. They know he sabotaged the Nordstream pipeline that created a mess with their energy costs. They also recognize Putin for who he is.

They also are obviously most concerned with Russia given the regional proximity. Short term - does Putin escalate and fire a missle into a neighboring country? Long term - Does he feel emboldened by what the outcome is. They know the U.S. has to take the lead on this and they are overly dependent on our military support.

No doubt they are nervous on how Trump is handling this for those reasons, but he is taking the attention away from them so they can virtue signal to their constituents.

The entire EU and Canada is supporting Zelensky, except for Orban- no surprise. Can all our allies be wrong.? I doubt it. Trump is basically ending the United States role as the leader of the free world. A role we have been doing since WW2.

Remember what this looks like to the rest of the world. We are abandoning our friends and allies. We don’t give a shit about Ukraine and we don’t care about Europe who are most powerful and loyal allies. The harm Trump is doing is irresponsible, reckless and I hope not irreparable. This is not the first time Trump has abandoned allies. He abandoned the Kurds who were our greatest fighters against ISIS. Yet he left them to the Turks to slaughter. We are no longer that bedrock of support and symbol of freedom. The ramifications of this will be felt for decades.

As an aside for those concerned about spending About 1% of the budget goes to foreign aid. About 68 billion went to military aid to countries in 2023. (This figure went way higher in 2024) This military aid furthers the interests and security of the US. The Department of Defense which was 820 billion.

For those who want to cut foreign aid, remember, these countries will have to get money from somewhere else. Guess who is going to be there to pick up the pieces? China. This will be a self inflicted wound that gives China far more influence in the world.

 

[HALL85]

The entire EU and Canada is supporting Zelensky, except for Orban- no surprise. Can all our allies be wrong.? I doubt it. Trump is basically ending the United States role as the leader of the free world. A role we have been doing since WW2.

The “free world” has effectively ceded defense and technology (all security) to the U.S.. They can’t afford to do either organically or in unison. We have been the leader and we need to continue to do that and have that innovation, development and production done here.

Remember what this looks like to the rest of the world. We are abandoning our friends and allies. We don’t give a shit about Ukraine and we don’t care about Europe who are most powerful and loyal allies. The harm Trump is doing is irresponsible, reckless and I hope not irreparable. This is not the first time Trump has abandoned allies. He abandoned the Kurds who were our greatest fighters against ISIS. Yet he left them to the Turks to slaughter. We are no longer that bedrock of support and symbol of freedom. The ramifications of this will be felt for decades.

We need for this war to end.

As an aside for those concerned about spending About 1% of the budget goes to foreign aid. About 68 billion went to military aid to countries in 2023. (This figure went way higher in 2024) This military aid furthers the interests and security of the US. The Department of Defense which was 820 billion.

Maybe we should take that money and spend it elsewhere for ours (and the worlds) interests, like ensuring we are in as strong a position than China.

For those who want to cut foreign aid, remember, these countries will have to get money from somewhere else. Guess who is going to be there to pick up the pieces? China. This will be a self inflicted wound that gives China far more influence in the world.

So you agree that China is our greatest threat. Thank you. We should use that aid to strategically support countries that pose a risk by aligning with China.

 

[cernjSHU]

The “free world” has effectively ceded defense and technology (all security) to the U.S.. They can’t afford to do either organically or in unison. We have been the leader and we need to continue to do that and have that innovation, development and production done here.

We need for this war to end.

Maybe we should take that money and spend it elsewhere for ours (and the worlds) interests, like ensuring we are in as strong a position than China.

So you agree that China is our greatest threat. Thank you. We should use that aid to strategically support countries that pose a risk by aligning with China.

1. EU has not ceded all protection but the US has been a reliable leader and protector. That reliability is now gone. We have no idea if Trump will protect Europe or NATO. This is a horrendous.

2. What is the need for this war to end for the US? We do not have soldiers on the ground and meanwhile Russia becomes weaker and weaker economically and militarily. Our aid that we give to Ukraine is mostly weapons. That employes Americans and benefits bottom lines to American corporations. The aid given does not mean a hill of beans economically.

3. We have and and continue to support Ukraine and other foreign aid around the world. It’s not an either or.

4. China is not our greatest military threat. It is a threat economically and sphere of influence. Russia is the country that will impacts the military. As Mitt Romney correctly stated our greatest geopolitical threat.

5. We show weakness with Russia with Ukraine, China will seize upon that weakness and then you will see things change as China flexes her muscles.

Trump is completely changing what has been the foreign policy of every Republican and Democratic administration since WW2. And he is dead wrong.

 

[HALL85]

1. EU has not ceded all protection but the US has been a reliable leader and protector. That reliability is now gone. We have no idea if Trump will protect Europe or NATO. This is a horrendous.

Where do EU countries get all of their arms and defense equipment? The U.S. They are producing less and less on their own.

Who will the EU become more dependent on for technology/security? They already are? The U.S.

2. What is the need for this war to end for the US? We do not have soldiers on the ground and meanwhile Russia becomes weaker and weaker economically and militarily. Our aid that we give to Ukraine is mostly weapons. That employes Americans and benefits bottom lines to American corporations. The aid given does not mean a hill of beans economically.

Public support has waned. It’s waned in Europe as well and they would prefer a peaceful end and Putin to be neutralized. EU countries know they need to contribute a higher percentage but that’s not a popular view.

3. We have and and continue to support Ukraine and other foreign aid around the world. It’s not an either or.

When it’s in our interests.

4. China is not our greatest military threat. It is a threat economically and sphere of influence. Russia is the country that will impacts the military. As Mitt Romney correctly stated our greatest geopolitical threat.

You are absolutely wrong.

5. We show weakness with Russia with Ukraine, China will seize upon that weakness and then you will see things change as China flexes her muscles.

So once again you contradict yourself…China is the biggest threat.

Trump is completely changing what has been the foreign policy of every Republican and Democratic administration since WW2. And he is dead wrong.

In your opinion.

 

[Rockaway]

Russia exposed with third world military.His only threat is nukes and he will also be destroyed if he uses them so I think this is a bluff.Zelensky came with different agenda than minerals signing.Europe has always wanted US to protect them from Russia and Chins. And wants an equal say in. How this is done with US doing the heavy lifting.Some Europeans seem to forget that when Hitler marched under Arc De Triomphe France didn’t drive him out the boys who stormed Normandy did. Europe doesn’t want strong America First President. ..

 

[Merge]

What is the need for this war to end for the US? We do not have soldiers on the ground and meanwhile Russia becomes weaker and weaker economically and militarily. Our aid that we give to Ukraine is mostly weapons. That employes Americans and benefits bottom lines to American corporations. The aid given does not mean a hill of beans economically.

^ yep.

Trump should say that Russia was the aggressor and we will continue to assist Ukraine until Russian aggression stops so they can work out an agreement. Crazy that Russia could invade Ukraine and just wait for the political wind to change and people start blaming Ukraine for defending themselves.

 

[SHallguy2]

Two sides to every story, a lot of this started when the media rode the Russia Collusion story line for most of Trump’s first term. A lot of damage was done with the made up story line. Financing other countries wars are the exact reason why folks around the world have a negative impression of America. Contrary to what we discuss here most people around the world would like to see an end to the conflict. Liberals always stood for peace and love. What the hell happened, greed and power going to everyone’s head. Let’s pass another 2 trillion dollar bill and start some more wars. Once that war started we needed to help protect Ukraine but now we need it to end. The negative narrative on Russia has to stop for us to move forward.

 

[SHallguy2]

Ukraine is not completely innocent, probably half the Ukrainian people would prefer to be part of Russia or the old Soviet Union. We get the Disney story line in the USA. Is Putin a thug yes but starting to look like Zelensky is also a thug. Not surprising since they were once part of the Soviet Union or one an the same mentality. Maybe they both need a little push to stop the fighting.

 

[cernjSHU]

Two sides to every story, a lot of this started when the media rode the Russia Collusion story line for most of Trump’s first term. A lot of damage was done with the made up story line. Financing other countries wars are the exact reason why folks around the world have a negative impression of America. Contrary to what we discuss here most people around the world would like to see an end to the conflict. Liberals always stood for peace and love. What the hell happened, greed and power going to everyone’s head. Let’s pass another 2 trillion dollar bill and start some more wars. Once that war started we needed to help protect Ukraine but now we need it to end. The negative narrative on Russia has to stop for us to move forward.

You are completely warped by the Trump propaganda machine. First of all, the US nor Ukraine started the war. Second, Russia invaded a sovereign country and began to bomb a civilian population, rape their women and kidnap their children. Let’s remember what’s going on there. Third, we are sending aid to a country at need who is a victim of an murderous dictator.

All the lessons have been learned during WW2. It’s like not giving arms to England during the time Germany was bombing then. Would we stop arming and supporting England? Absolutely not. Why would we do so here? I mean the similarities of the situation are endless.

You are now calling Zalensky a thug like Putin. Did Z murder reporters or political opposition? Of course not, but you want to equate the two. There is no equating the two. My God have you all been warped.

The negative narrative on Russia has to end? What are u talking about?. They are a rogue state engaged in war crimes. The never ending bombing of civilians, raping of women and kidnapping of children are the acts a of terrorist nation.

 

[HALL85]

On This Week today, Stephanopolis interviewed Rubio and then the UK Ambassador. It’s worth a watch, not necessarily for Rubio but the Ambassador was very clear that a reset was needed and Zelensky needed to get himself back to the table ASAP and be ready to work with the U.S.

It sounds like Starmer was very clear in his meeting with Zelensky yesterday and that the UK wants immediate peace as well.

 

[cernjSHU]

To those of you who do not wish to provide continued aid to Ukraine, let me ask you this. Doesn't the US have not only a moral obligation but a contractual obligation to provide aid to Ukraine due to the decluclear agreement that they signed with not only England and the United States but also Russia? now, one of the signatories have invaded Ukraine. First paragraph of the agreement states:
"The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine."

We are obligated to aid them in their fight against Russia. Moreover, not only did Putin break that agreement, he broke the Budapest Agreement where it prohibited Russia from threatening or using military force against Ukraine.

As you see, Putin broke many of the agreements made between the two countries. Ukraine giving up nukes for that agreement was the one it gave up the most and is certainly getting screwed for having done so. Putin cannot be trusted especially when it comes to Ukraine. To think otherwise, is just foolishness or being a Russian asset.

Yes we all want an end to the war, but not capitulation on Ukraine's part.

 

[shu09]

Seems that agreement is null and void based on Russia's actions.

What good does it do to keep wasting money and weapons on a war that Ukraine will never win? Make a deal now before they lose more lives and territory, or even the entire country itself.

 

[HALL85]

No one is saying stop the aid, but We are not obligated to provide aid forever and without conditions.

Trump is trying to end a bloody war that has gone on for four years without any end in sight. He’s trying to initiate getting everyone around the table to have a cease fire and find a solution.

It was reported this morning that Zelensky had pissed Biden off on a phone call that ended badly. Trump trying to give him a lifeline with the rare earth deal that will share profits and put US interests in Ukraine. I would think Putin would be less likely to try it again if he knows US businesses and assets are there.