Laws won't solve this problem. Better parenting, better mental health screening, and an overall change of culture will.
Another school shooting in America
- Thread starter NYShoreGuy
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Laws won't solve this problem. Better parenting, better mental health screening, and an overall change of culture will.
Ignoring the mental health aspect of firearm deaths is like putting your head in the sand. Suicide by firearm represents the latest segment of deaths each year, and the 20-34 age group by far the largest. The per/100k rate of population has risen each year since before the pandemic. Add to this in that most mass shooters end up committing suicide after they go on a rampage. Since 2000 the suicide rate has jumped 37%, and the curve got really steep in 2008 and continued.
Laws are not going to solve that problem, outside of holding parents legally accountable.
https://www.cdc.gov/firearm-violence/php/data-trends/firearm-suicide-data-trends.html
I think mental health is an issue for sure in this country. But who is burying their head in the sand when you say laws won’t work. Look at the number of firearm deaths per capita in this country. And you will see a trend. The states with the most restrictive gun laws have the least. The states where all these honest and law abiding gun owners live that have the least restrictive gun laws are all at the highest.
You think that’s a coincidence?
Gun Deaths per Capita by State 2024
I believe those statistics lump suicide, homicide, accidental together. The link I shared earlier points to homicide rates higher in California, New York and Texas.I think mental health is an issue for sure in this country. But who is burying their head in the sand when you say laws won’t work. Look at the number of firearm deaths per capita in this country. And you will see a trend. The states with the most restrictive gun laws have the least. The states where all these honest and law abiding gun owners live that have the least restrictive gun laws are all at the highest.
You think that’s a coincidence?
Gun Deaths per Capita by State 2024
worldpopulationreview.com
Doesn't change much. I don't see where your stats are coming from.
On gun violence, the United States is an outlier | Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation
When we look exclusively at high-income countries and territories with populations of 10 million or more, the US ranks first for its high levels of gun violence.
www.healthdata.org
The link I posted had stats of metro and non-metro deaths with metro about 85%. The other link stated most gun homicides were in urban areas.Doesn't change much. I don't see where your stats are coming from.
On gun violence, the United States is an outlier | Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation
When we look exclusively at high-income countries and territories with populations of 10 million or more, the US ranks first for its high levels of gun violence.
State stats are a bit misleading also. Texas has one of the highest rates, but 62% are suicides, and the cities account for most of homicides. Black deaths 5:1 over other races. If you want to propose legislation there, suggest something that’s going to move the needle.
https://www.click2houston.com/news/...is-county-ahead-of-nra-convention-in-houston/
You keep moving the goalposts. But I will play along.
https://www.axios.com/2023/10/16/america-gun-deaths-crime-south Amazing most are in the south once again with the most permissive gun laws
Now, I have stated what legislation the must be instituted to actually put a dent in gun violence. But no one is going to put it into effect. I
I never moved the goalposts. I pointed out the urban gun violence in my original posts and stats that supported that. You’re making it about state stats now….moving the goalposts.
The Axios article was about urban metro areas where most of the highest per capita homicides are still in the south. So, your point is that if you live in a city that is where the gun deaths. You don't care about state laws which of course are direct impact on the cities.
If the urban cities in the states with the most restrictive gun laws have a less per capita rate than the cities in the State with the lease restrictive gun law, but you see no correlation? Of course, the State impacts on the cities within that State.
Just say you don't care. The endless excuse making is a pointless waste of everyone's time.
BINGO. To me there are 2 separate categories. The school shootings are different.
Category 1 is the gun violence daily in urban areas ahem Chicago, Baltimore, LA etc. It happens SO often that it's no longer a news story. Have you ever seen the 4th of July weekend Chicago murders/shootings averages??? What's common there is they are gangbangers with sheets that constantly get out and repeat crime and violence. And yet Chicago is a "Gun Free Zone" according to legislation. LOL. You can call something a no-gun place, but if you don't prosecute Criminals and constantly bend over backwards to give them chance after chance, then that's what Chicagoans are voting for. I do not sympathize with them, they accept it there. However if there was a Rudy Giuliani/Singapore type cleanup in a city like Chicago, watch how quickly gun violence numbers plummet.
So the real question is who really wants to solve the issue, and who just wants to use it as a weapon? (Democrats)
Category 2 is the school shootings categories. Obviously not gang-bangers or career criminals, they are generally troubled kids as the overall top theme. The secondary theme is when a kid is determined to be trouble, the authorities and school systems in particular do not want to classify the kids as "bad" or put them in a rehabilitation track. School institutions have shown they do not want to discipline for anything. Take a look and guess at the discipline levels of schools on kids today vs 5 yrs ago, 10 years ago, and so forth. Otherwise it's just constant Law & Order episodes of the teachers being afraid to say anything, the nurse and school psychologist passing the buck, the District passing the buck
Bottom line, just like Category 1....when there is a bad apple, it must be dealt with, and handled: HARD.
On the topic of crime involving guns, take a look at the stats of crime with illegal guns vs registered guns. Overwhelmingly the crime is with unregistered, illegal, so taking the legal ones away is not moving the needle. Bad people arent interested in registering their weapons or following any laws for that matter.
Gun laws need to be universal throughout the land. Doesn’t make much sense to have strict gun laws in Maryland and the state directly south of you have laxed gun laws to purchase firearms. Those southern states is the biggest supplier of illegal guns to the north. People just go to the south, but the weapon and come north. Then that same gun can be used and passed around. Your thinking is too simplistic. Ur a northern city has lots of gun violence therefore gun laws don’t work. There are other variables and causes that people just ignore.
Too Simplistic? For asking for the criminals to be locked up legitimately? Not the 11-arrest-3 gun priors-but-somehow-has only been in jail 3 months crowd. That's the guy x thousands that is causing trouble. Squash that and then you'll see a real cleanup.
The Guns don't go anywhere if there arent any criminals there interested in taking them for no good. These are not guys using it to protect their house from criminals. They are the criminals.
I don’t agree with that. New Jersey, for instance has very strict laws about transporting guns over state lines. Lawful gun owners know that and follow the rules. Do you think criminals care? If they skirt the laws today, why wouldn’t they skirt the laws as you suggesting.
It’s not a gun problem. It’s a criminal problem.
Because the father has been charged now as a criminal…that’s how it works. When you put these criminals behind bars, parents won’t do it.
so then america is doing well in this department and doesn't have 420 school shootings since september 2000 im glad that worked !
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No it’s not done well. Up until the the Illinois shootings parents weren’t being charged. And those laws need to be strengthened.
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penalties don't cease it from happening so why don't we do something to lessen the atrocity when it does.
ahhh nah. because the alternative of ??? is not worth the risk/reward of dead children to you. seriously.
So having laws, penalties and enforcement has no impact on crime? Then let’s do away with drunk driving laws? Let’s do away with burglary and robbery laws….because they won’t prevent people from committing those acts.
And what’s the alternative?
well you've been saying that penalties on guns don't stop inner city gangs from getting guns. im only applying your logic.
so yea lets do nothing. its better. hate to let our own standards get in the way of trying to help kids.
Your logic is flawed. Penalties on the criminals…how do you penalize a gun?
But I did suggest what to do. Can’t figure that out?
you don't penalize a gun, you prevent it. cant believe such smart connected guy can have his mind blown.
We all get your schtick…Guns bad; Trump bad; SHU players dumb….but keep trolling.
NJ has one of the lowest rates of gun homicides in the nation. Can you imagine what it would be if all the states had the same gun laws as NJ. It would be drastically reduced. But the southern states it’s so easy to get guns. In NJ, there is mandatory jai if caught with possession of a firearm. What you are complaining look to other states. Not NJ.
I agree that having more laws (and penalties) makes sense and being from the state and getting my gun license in NJ, is preferred as there is a waiting period and more thorough process. It essentially took me an hour to get my PA license when I moved.
And I agree it’s about the specific law and not the fun. For instance you can purchase an AR15 type rifle in NJ.
I actually think we are arguing about the same thing. Get caught with an illegal firearm; mandatory jail. Go one step further though. Use an illegal gun in the commission of a crime; LENGTHY mandatory jail time.
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