Good points and quite true.
I purposely left that out so as not to distract from the simple facts about the money.
Bernie in Bethlehem
- Thread starter HALL85
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Good points and quite true.
I purposely left that out so as not to distract from the simple facts about the money.
By "these jobs" I presume you mean minimum wage jobs. I've often wondered why people take a minimum wage job. Surely desperation would be one reason, even if it isn't the only reason.
Yes, I meant minimum wage jobs.
There are a bunch of scenarios where a minimum wage job makes sense.
Trying to raise a family on one is not one of them.
I don't buy desperation as a primary reason.
Some examples IMO:
I believe not having a minimum wage would actually have the effect of increasing wages for some of these jobs. Because there is a set minimum wage, it establishes an arbitrary starting point that carries an implied legitimacy because it is established by law. Let the market dictate the starting point.
If McDonald's tried to pay $3.00, how many people do you think would accept that? At present, they can offer a measly $7.25 and say, hey, the Federal Government authorizes this.
As well, setting it at $15 would be forcing an amount that some jobs do not warrant.
- Part time after school and summer jobs for high school and college students
- Some work study jobs.
- Paid internships
- Some wait servers (There is the whole tip discussion on that one)
- entry positions
- many non-profit organization jobs. E.g Community theater 501 c(3) paying a retiree to run the concession stand.
- Teacher's aid's
- Pay in lieu of volunteers
I believe not having a minimum wage would actually have the effect of increasing wages for some of these jobs. Because there is a set minimum wage, it establishes an arbitrary starting point that carries an implied legitimacy because it is established by law. Let the market dictate the starting point.
If McDonald's tried to pay $3.00, how many people do you think would accept that? At present, they can offer a measly $7.25 and say, hey, the Federal Government authorizes this.
As well, setting it at $15 would be forcing an amount that some jobs do not warrant.
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I wonder how many copies of his books Bernie has sold on Amazon? Total hypocrite.
Bernie paid hundreds of thousands more in federal income taxes than amazon did, and promotes the idea that he should have paid more.
“Promotes” the idea...not much skin in the game. I repeat...lead by example.
You are conflating the issue of Bernie being against US tax policy vs Amazon's tax policy.
He has been pushing for a tax policy where he would pay more in taxes.
Bernie's not even at the top of my list for 2020, but you guys are being a little silly here.
I'm not conflating anything. Bernie stated the other night that in his tax plan, he would pay 52% compared to what Trump has enacted. And I'm not just picking on Bernie...because Congress should have agreed to sign on to the ACA for themselves, but they are conveniently excluded because they have essentially healthcare of life.
Like I said before, I give Bernie points for his passion and I do think he believes in what he says. But as he is now leading in the Dem polls, I go back to a comment that was made to me by a recently retired Congressman....The face of the Democrats (Bernie) is an Independent and the face of the Republicans (Trump) is a lifelong Democrat. What does this tell you about how most of the country views the party establishments?
Right, so hows does one lead by example when they believe there should be changes within tax policy?
Regarding taxes now there are multiple confirmed reports that people are paying less taxes across the country and refunds were up by 1%. These reports are from many sources including H&R block based on actual tax returns. In fact one report said 95% of NJ taxpayers paid less taxes this year but only 1-5 believe it. Tell me how the MSM does not effect people's perceptions. They are totally rubbish and never did the math because they didn't want the actual answer - instead they wanted to trumpet their view and get people to believe it.
Pretty silly.
Bernie followed the law as he should.
Amazon followed the law as they should.
He is fighting for the law to change, not a tax system based on voluntary contributions.
So no one who hasn't donated excess funds to the IRS can support an increase in taxes? No one who has served in the military should ever support sending troops somewhere because they haven't led by example?
Which politicians supporting tax cuts should led by example and paid less than what they owed for 2017?
It's a silly arbitrary threshold.
I expect no politician, whether is it Bernie Sanders or President Trump, to pay more than is required by the law.
No...you can do whatever you want, but at the end of the day, while it's not a disqualifier (as you're making it out to be) it strikes at your credibility. You're the one being silly with your tax cut analogy.
Kind of like the people that scream about global warming and live in a 20,000 sq. ft house, travel by private jet, limo....with a carbon footprint of a small country.
Here is the most comical exchange from the other night.
_________________________________________
SANDERS: Health care is not free!
MACCALLUM: Of course not!
SANDERS: You never heard me say that we’re gonna magically —
MACCALLUM: You just said it was gonna be “free” for everyone.
SANDERS: It’s gonna be free at the point of when you use it. Okay? Family of four. Do you know how much that family is paying today for health care? $28,000 a year.
MACCALLUM: Okay.
SANDERS: All right? We’re spending $11,000 per person. We are saying to that family of four, “You ain’t gonna pay that $28,000. You’re not paying any more premiums. You’re not paying any more copayments. You’re not paying any more deductibles.” How’s that?
MACCALLUM: Yeah!
SANDERS: $28,000, you’re not paying. But does that mean you’re not gonna pay something? Of course it doesn’t. You’re gonna pay more in taxes.
_______________________________________
So I guess cable TV is free. Yes it is. When I turn on my TV I don't have to pay anything at that moment and hence it is free. yeah....I think I have that correct.
Hmmmmm. My car is free. When I get in and drive, I don't have to pay anything. Damn...I did not realize I had all this free stuff.
Actually, this sounds like the way a child thinks about Money and Stuff. All that food that shows up on the table every night. Free. The house. Free. The clothes. Free. And then one day they leave the house and get a job and you get the hilarious phone call when they realize how much everything actually costs.
_________________________________________
SANDERS: Health care is not free!
MACCALLUM: Of course not!
SANDERS: You never heard me say that we’re gonna magically —
MACCALLUM: You just said it was gonna be “free” for everyone.
SANDERS: It’s gonna be free at the point of when you use it. Okay? Family of four. Do you know how much that family is paying today for health care? $28,000 a year.
MACCALLUM: Okay.
SANDERS: All right? We’re spending $11,000 per person. We are saying to that family of four, “You ain’t gonna pay that $28,000. You’re not paying any more premiums. You’re not paying any more copayments. You’re not paying any more deductibles.” How’s that?
MACCALLUM: Yeah!
SANDERS: $28,000, you’re not paying. But does that mean you’re not gonna pay something? Of course it doesn’t. You’re gonna pay more in taxes.
_______________________________________
So I guess cable TV is free. Yes it is. When I turn on my TV I don't have to pay anything at that moment and hence it is free. yeah....I think I have that correct.
Hmmmmm. My car is free. When I get in and drive, I don't have to pay anything. Damn...I did not realize I had all this free stuff.
Actually, this sounds like the way a child thinks about Money and Stuff. All that food that shows up on the table every night. Free. The house. Free. The clothes. Free. And then one day they leave the house and get a job and you get the hilarious phone call when they realize how much everything actually costs.
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It's also how an idiot thinks when they get their first credit card. Until the first bill comes in......
Actually that's also how politicians think when they talk about spending.
Was this comical as you were watching this live? Or just afterwards when you copied it straight from Limbaugh's website?
In the full exchange, Sanders was never implying that healthcare would be free.
You are playing small ball with that retort.
No it was comical when I listened to it this morning on Fox when they were playing it back.
Rush's website provided an easy way to copy it without having to type it all in.
Maybe I should have checked with you first to see if that was okay.
You can spin any what you want but the implication that's coming loud and clear is that everybody will have healthcare and they won't have to pay for it. This is particularly true for the 45% of Americans who pay no taxes.
No it was comical when I listened to it this morning on Fox when they were playing it back.
Rush's website provided an easy way to copy it without having to type it all in.
Maybe I should have checked with you first to see if that was okay.
You can spin any what you want but the implication that's coming loud and clear is that everybody will have healthcare and they won't have to pay for it. This is particularly true for the 45% of Americans who pay no taxes.
The good news here that Bernie is the frontrunner. Hopefully he wins the primary.
This country will never elect a socialist president in my lifetime.
If he is the Democratic nominee we are guaranteed to have four more years of Trump.
While I try to avoid schadenfreude, I will take great delight in the agony that will inflict on liberals!
This country will never elect a socialist president in my lifetime.
If he is the Democratic nominee we are guaranteed to have four more years of Trump.
While I try to avoid schadenfreude, I will take great delight in the agony that will inflict on liberals!
You're free to post what you want. I just thought it was interesting that you were giving a play by play during the town hall but the most comical part came to you a day later.
I'd put the likelihood of a medicare for all plan passing at around 0%.
I'm happy it is discussed as the option on the left. Only way to compromise towards the middle is to have someone on the left.
Prior to working in college financial aid my wife's early career was running physicians offices.
She often cites the seismic shift that took place when people stopped paying for services at the time they were seen. it used to be you paid the doc in full and then you had to go to your insurance company and get reimbursed for whatever they would allow.
Once that flipped to walking away without having to fork over any money at the time of service, people lost touch with the cost of healthcare.
If she had a nickel for every time she had to field the phone call, "what do you mean I have to pay the difference?" we' be rich.
She often cites the seismic shift that took place when people stopped paying for services at the time they were seen. it used to be you paid the doc in full and then you had to go to your insurance company and get reimbursed for whatever they would allow.
Once that flipped to walking away without having to fork over any money at the time of service, people lost touch with the cost of healthcare.
If she had a nickel for every time she had to field the phone call, "what do you mean I have to pay the difference?" we' be rich.
Okay, how about delusional? Lol. Just kidding. Sorta.
All seriousness aside you can't really defend that Bernie is not a socialist.
Agree completely, That has been my position here for years.
^ that's from 7 years ago. Still have the same opinion.
Bernie's healthcare plan isn't even socialist. A socialist plan would have all doctors receive a payroll from the government.
Socialism is state ownership of production and services. Bernie is not advocating for that, so I will defend that he is not a socialist.
