BEST ENDORSEMENT A PRESIDENT CAN GET

[SnakeTom]

Documents found in Bin Laden's hideout indicate that he wanted to assassinate the President & Cabinat members to prevent Obama's re-election. Can't ask for a better endorsement than that but it comes too early to help OB. Will be forgotten in 18 months. The economy will still decide the next election in my opinion.

Tom K.

 

[The SHUttle]

 

[SPK145]

That didn't work out too well for George H.W. Bush, did it?

 

[NYShoreGuy]

read my lips no new taxes

 

[SnakeTom]

The economy is what did Bush I in also. And no one was as popular as he was after Desert Storm.

TK

 

[SPK145]

Well let's hope for the ssme fate as Bush I.
Posted from wireless.rivals.com[/URL]

 

[oscar66]

Originally posted by SPK145:
Well let's hope for the ssme fate as Bush I.
Posted from wireless.rivals.com

Not that I am any fan of Obama but, the Republican candidates don't exactly give me a thrill up my leg.

 

[SPK145]

Ron Paul does.

 

[oscar66]

Sadly, he has little or no shot.

 

[The SHUttle]

Originally posted by SPK145:
Ron Paul does.

Just awful

 

[SnakeTom]

Originally posted by SPK145:
Well let's hope for the ssme fate as Bush I.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

I can't agree with that. My hope is that the economy improves enough that the President deserves to be re-elected.

Tom K

 

[SPK145]

My hope is that the economy improves a lot in spite of him and he gets kicked to the curb.

 

[SnakeTom]

Alot depends on who runs against OB. Right now I do not see anyone on the Republican side among those being mentioned that I would want to see in the White House. But once the nominee is chosen you get a chance to focus to a greater degree on that person to make a more informed decision.

Tom K

 

[SPK145]

Agreed on the Republican lot but OB was a horrible, inexperienced candidate and continues that as president. VERY partisan, divisive, lying, and down right mean.

 

[SnakeTom]

Not surprisingly we disagree again. It seems that both sides have become very partisan in recent times. Personally I think we are better off if we are ruled by a more centrist government even though my own views are left of center. But with our primary system & the extreme polarization that we now experience politically that seems very unlikely.

Your characterization of the President as lying & down right mean is way off base in my opinion. Of course he is partisan but so are you & so am I.

Tom K

 

[HALL85]

I also think OB has done a poor job. We appeared to be a united country when he was elected, and he had a great opportunity to take the high road and reach out and include everyone. Instead, as SPK said, he took the partisan, divisive route with healthcare reform being a prime example. I was at a healthcare conference last week and all sides think the legislation was a failure. We now have over 50 million uninsured, premiums are rising faster than before and the prospects are not good. Everyone that presented agreed that the healthcare cost curve will continue to rise faster than inflation with no change in quality and outcomes with the legislation. Why did we do this again???

 

[SnakeTom]

Originally posted by HALL85:
We appeared to be a united country when he was elected,

Don't know where that comes from. We were no more united then then now. Involved in a war (Iraq) that many if not most opposed, collapsed economy. How were we united ??? You certainly can't tell me that the previous President was not a partisan.

Tom K

 

[HALL85]

Originally posted by SnakeTom:

Originally posted by HALL85:
We appeared to be a united country when he was elected,

Don't know where that comes from. We were no more united then then now. Involved in a war (Iraq) that many if not most opposed, collapsed economy. How were we united ??? You certainly can't tell me that the previous President was not a partisan.

Tom K

Tom, did you not remember Obama's inauration?? It was THE feel good moment for the country. My neighbor who is a staunch Republican made the trip to DC for it!! There was a swell of support amongst the masses and he should have capitalized on that, by governing by inclusion....and he did the complete opposite. I'll send you the DVD of the inauguration if you don't have it or don't remember....lol

 

[SnakeTom]

That's not the point. If you are saying partisanship started with OB then you are way off base. We were just as partisan before him. I guess to most people the definition of "partisanship" is what the other guy does but never my guy. Actually that's also how most define "hipocracy"- lol. The hipocrate is always the guy we don't agree with.

Tom K

 

[oscar66]

Speaking as a staunch independent, at this point it is almost impossible for Obama to lose as there is not 1 traditional Republican that stands out as a viable candidate.

 

[SPK145]

Originally posted by SnakeTom:
If you are saying partisanship started with OB then you are way off base. We were just as partisan before him.

Correct. We have been very partisan for quite some time now. None more so though than Obama. Bush did reach across the aisle when he didn't need to, like for the abominable No Child Left Behind and the equally abominable Medicare Prescription Plan boondoggle.

The way Obama treated Paul Ryan at his budget speech was despicable. Remember Hope and Change, LOL?

There is no leading Republican as this time but there is a long way to go.

 

[michstfr]

Exactly.

Ron Paul actually has some decent ideas, however saying we needed permission from Pakistan to kill OBL just about disaqualifies him.

I think if Mitch Daniels does not run there will be a huge movement to get either Christie or Jeb Bush in the race.

Originally posted by SPK145:
My hope is that the economy improves a lot in spite of him and he gets kicked to the curb.

 

[shu09]

Just about every inauguration is a "feel good moment" for the country. With the possible exception of Bush in 2001.

I think Obama has done a decent job. I am willing to give him many years to get us out of the mess he inherited. He's doing a pretty good job so far. I think we need to wait 10 years and see how the health care bill performs once everything is put into place. Too early to judge it now.

I disagree with Obama's escalation in Afghanistan but I knew full well he was going to do that when I voted for him. On foreign policy, he's done exactly what he said he would do. Draw down Iraq and put more troops into Afghanistan. Now I hope he follows through by beginning to draw down in July.

As for the economy, I also recognized that there is no quick fix to the situation, especially unemployment. It will take years for things to get back to "normal" no matter who is in the White House.

I don't think he's been "mean" and I certainly don't think he's a liar. SPK, could you provide some examples where you think he lied?

 

[SPK145]

Originally posted by shu09:
I don't think he's been "mean" and I certainly don't think he's a liar. SPK, could you provide some examples where you think he lied?

FRar, far too many to list here, just Google it.

Just for starters:

- Pass this stimulus bill and unemployment won't go above 8%
- Obamacare will not increase the deficit
- The insurance mandate is not a tax (Yet in defense of it in court, he says its constitutional because it's a tax!!!)

The list goes on and on and on. Chicago politics at its finest. Yet America suffers.

 

[Muggsy Blue]

All politicians make promises they can't ultimately deliver on. Calling anyone a liar implies a deliberate false statement to deceive. Strong word to describe anyone.

 

[SnakeTom]

You can't say he was lying about healthcare or the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan. He did exactly what he said he would in his campaign which is why many of us voted for him. To not push for healthcare would have been a insincere promise. Sometimes political promises are made that can not be kept but that would not necessarily be a lie either. If we did not catch Bin Ladin would that be a lie. Not if we tried & just failed. That happens sometime. But as Muggsy said all pols make promises some that can be kept & others that can't. It's the nature of the system.

TK

 

[HALL85]

How about closing Gitmo? Whether it's lying or going back on his promises, his performance has been dismal. All sizzle no steak.

So just because some people run red lights it's OK to do? Funny way you guys gloss over someone who has not done his job.

 

[SPK145]

The examples I gave were out and out lies not campaign promises.

 

[SnakeTom]

So what are you saying a President can't change his mind on an issue. I'd rather have a President admit when he is wrong & change policy than just keeping doing something that does not work. As to whether the President is doing a good job or not that's a totally different topic. You certainly can think he's telling the truth & also feel he is not doing a good job or the reverse of that. That's why we have elections. we certainly are not all going to agree on how good or bad any President has been & whether he deserves re-election. We also have the right to think that a particular President has done a good job but his opponent may do a better job or that both candidates are terrible choices.

TK

 

[HALL85]

Originally posted by SnakeTom:
So what are you saying a President can't change his mind on an issue. I'd rather have a President admit when he is wrong & change policy than just keeping doing something that does not work. As to whether the President is doing a good job or not that's a totally different topic. You certainly can think he's telling the truth & also feel he is not doing a good job or the reverse of that. That's why we have elections. we certainly are not all going to agree on how good or bad any President has been & whether he deserves re-election. We also have the right to think that a particular President has done a good job but his opponent may do a better job or that both candidates are terrible choices.

TK

Maybe I'm crazy, but I look at results and the fact that we have a 14 tillion dollar deficit and growing, with no plan to reduce it, a healthcare reform bill that will much cost more than anticipated, do nothing to impact care and may not really move the needle on access, 9% unemployment, and a country that is more divided than ever.

I agree that it comes down to terrible choices sometimes, in fact, you can make a obvious case that the last three Presidential elections had terrible choices on both sides. Hopefully the Republicans can field a candidate that can move us back in the right direction, although I'm not encouraged so far by what I see and where there is support.

 

[Muggsy Blue]

That's if the direction that you're interested in going is right, lol

 

[Merge]

Originally posted by SPK145:

Originally posted by shu09:
I don't think he's been "mean" and I certainly don't think he's a liar. SPK, could you provide some examples where you think he lied?

FRar, far too many to list here, just Google it.

Just for starters:

- Pass this stimulus bill and unemployment won't go above 8%
- Obamacare will not increase the deficit
- The insurance mandate is not a tax (Yet in defense of it in court, he says its constitutional because it's a tax!!!)

The list goes on and on and on. Chicago politics at its finest. Yet America suffers.

We have covered the unemployment claims on here before. The fact is that no one knew exactly how bad it was, and when Obama said it won't reach 8%... It was already over 8%. Considering a "projection" a lie is a bit of a stretch, especially since it was already there.

Obamacare and the effect on deficit is also not that easy if you are talking about the "doc-fix" which would have been implemented regardless of Obamacare.

The insurance mandate needs to happen in order for the plan to work. Without it, it fails. I will agree he lied about the tax originally though.

 

[HALL85]

Originally posted by Muggsy Blue:
That's if the direction that you're interested in going is right, lol

Muggs, you should know better....I don't see left or right...remember, I didn't vote for Christie. I do believe leadership is more than making speeches. At some time you need substance and it just hasn't been there in the past two years.

 

[Muggsy Blue]

So you voted for Daggett, huh? By the way, I wasn't defending Obama, just find the use of the word liar to describe him troubling.

 

[shu09]

Originally posted by SPK145:

Originally posted by shu09:
I don't think he's been "mean" and I certainly don't think he's a liar. SPK, could you provide some examples where you think he lied?

FRar, far too many to list here, just Google it.

Just for starters:

- Pass this stimulus bill and unemployment won't go above 8%
- Obamacare will not increase the deficit
- The insurance mandate is not a tax (Yet in defense of it in court, he says its constitutional because it's a tax!!!)

The list goes on and on and on. Chicago politics at its finest. Yet America suffers.

Those aren't lies, they are miscalculations.
This post was edited on 5/15 8:11 PM by shu09

 

[HALL85]

Originally posted by Muggsy Blue:
So you voted for Daggett, huh? By the way, I wasn't defending Obama, just find the use of the word liar to describe him troubling.

Less concerned about his lying than I am about his inexperience and divisiveness...we needed someone to unite the country and had a perfect opporunity, but failed because he was more concerned about his image.

 

[SnakeTom]

W had the chance to unite the country also after 9-11. He didn't opt in that direction either. As to the defecit, just how much of it is due to the wars that we are involved in? Going into Iraq was a mistake on many fronts and a big one of them is the cost & our increasing defecit. Funny how people complaining about the defecit never mention the cost of war.

Tom K

 

[HALL85]

If I recall W wasn't running against Obama but I agree, he failed to unite the country as well. That doesn't take BO off the hook just because the guy before him was just as incompetent.

I didn't think we should have gone into Iraq nor do I think we should have gone into Libya.

 

[SnakeTom]

Originally posted by HALL85:
If I recall W wasn't running against Obama but I agree, he failed to unite the country as well. That doesn't take BO off the hook just because the guy before him was just as incompetent.

I didn't think we should have gone into Iraq nor do I think we should have gone into Libya.

I agree on each of these points (except for OB being incompetent). And yes it is a rare day that 85 and I agree on anything.

TK

 

[SnakeTom]

In response to Hall85 though, when was the last time that we had a President that united the nation. One that was highly respected by members of both parties. Personally I can't think of any. Quite possibly the answer may be President Eisenhower and that was over 50 years ago.

Tom K