Better Hire A GM

[SHallguy2]

Depth is overrated in hoops. Particularly college hoops. You need one or two wagons and a few guys who can play their roles well. Look at our best teams over the past two decades. What would the 2015 team have been without Whitehead? Or the 2020 team without Powell? Those teams were not deep, but they had stars.

I don’t know what the answer is anymore, the one sport I truly love to watch is ruined, add in the Giants and even the Yankees and I gotta figure something good will come out of this mess. Coleman could be that guy but sophomores are always erratic and he’s one step down or one year away. We are young but there is talent on the floor. Too late at this point to change anything. A year from now Sha will be either a hero or a goat.

 

[chickenbox]

I don’t know what the answer is anymore, the one sport I truly love to watch is ruined, add in the Giants and even the Yankees and I gotta figure something good will come out of this mess. Coleman could be that guy but sophomores are always erratic and he’s one step down or one year away. We are young but there is talent on the floor. Too late at this point to change anything. A year from now Sha will be either a hero or a goat.

The Yankees made the world series

 

[its haLL baLL]

The roster is terribly constructed. I don’t care about NIL or budget - I’m talking strictly about the profiles of players that you need to be a cohesive and winning team.

Guards who can penetrate, wings who can shoot, bigs who can protect the rim, etc. You need players that can fit into roles and hope they excel in your system.

This roster is filled with redundancy and unfortunately the redundancy is a roster full of guys who can’t score or create shots outside of a couple of players.

It’s a losing formula.

 

[LeftCoastPirates]

Depth is overrated in hoops. Particularly college hoops. You need one or two wagons and a few guys who can play their roles well. Look at our best teams over the past two decades. What would the 2015 team have been without Whitehead? Or the 2020 team without Powell? Those teams were not deep, but they had stars.

Did you just really say that the 2020 roster had no depth besides Powell?

Yes you need a superstar to have a great team…but what a disrespect to the rest of the roster.

Sandro and Rhoden become future 1st team All- BE players
Q was a great on ball defender and came into his own during his second year in the BE.
Gill and Obiagu you would give your left arm for right now.
Cale was solid defensive role player.
Shavar and Nelson would be starting PGs on today’s team.
Tyrese Samuel was on the bench as a frosh.

And I might still take Taurean Thompson and his 4 minutes played for the season over some of the guys on today’s roster.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

The issue with the roster, not a top level proven pg, though feel jenkins is a good one year contribution player, and so many similar type players with limited arsenal

 

[Bud Boomer]

Did you just really say that the 2020 roster had no depth besides Powell?

Yes you need a superstar to have a great team…but what a disrespect to the rest of the roster.

Samdro and Rhoden become future 1st team All- BE players
Q was a great on ball defender and came into his own during his second year in the BE.
Gill and Obiagu you would give your left arm for right now.
Cale was solid defensive role player.
Shavar and Nelson would be starting PGs on today’s team.
Tyrese Samuel was on the bench as a frosh.

And I might still take Taurean Thompson and his 4 minutes played for the season over some of the guys on today’s roster.

I did not say no depth besides Powell. I said it was not a particularly deep team. And they weren’t. The rotation was 7 guys. And it was constructed exactly like I said. One or two stars (Powell and Sandro, although Sandro hadn’t fully broken through yet) and a few of guys who played their roles well. Yes, Rhoden was on that team but he wasn’t yet what he would become. He was a role player. Same with Samuel.

IMO you think more highly of Shavar, Cale and Nelson because of who they played with (Powell). If Shavar were on today’s team, we would win zero additional games. Same with Nelson. Same with Cale. They were replacement level players.

 

[sami]

Worst part about it all… Dual is going to be a stud at Fairfield next year.

 

[SHUSA]

We’re 8 games in. 25% of the season. We’re losing buy games to terrible teams repeatedly. We’re showing no improvement. We’re 357th in 2PT shooting. I mean c’mon.

We didn’t have a forward who could play with Valencia. Bashir makes our guards like JUCOs. And Monmouth was 0-8! Individual talent alone should win these buy games.

Sha chose to stick the roster this way instead of paying better players with less depth. It’s blowing up in his face.

i think hes a good coach but he's becoming willard like in his stubbornness and it's clear he's not a GM. And you have to be a GM now.

these players are potentially not even D1

 

[Turiddu]

I did not expect this roster to immediately become a respectable team. However, the wheels have completely come off, and losing to these teams is mind-boggling. They can't make fouls, and their supposed great defense was woeful today. The endless weave with either a crazy drive into traffic or a shot clock violation resembles guys in a pick-up game rather than a Division One basketball unit. There was no adjustment to the zone and I cannot remember a worse Pirate team offensively.
I love the Pirates and have been a strong supporter of Sha, but this program needs a major adjustment and a path to developing some genuine offensive threats.
I would be more optimistic if I knew that Sha had two years to develop players but that is a pipe dream.

 

[knowknow456]

After 55 years of being a fan I earned that right.

Whatever gets you through. If we were projected to be a Sweet 16 team, you would be a season ticket holder for 40+1 years.

 

[NYC Pirate]

We are in a tough spot as I see it. Our coach led an extremely small school to an Elite 8 and then Seton Hall to an NIT Championship just two years later. He knows basketball without question. So, what's going on? Although he inherited Richmond, he did sign Dawes and the Davis Brothers. Loved the way Dawes closed out his college career and for me Dre Davis was his best find. That type of basketball IQ is what you need on the court. Sandro and Rhoden had it also. Obviously, you need a Powell or Richmond on your Roster. You just can't afford to sign or pay players with such deficiencies in the NIL era. So far, this group collectively haven't produced, especially on offense or at the free throw line. I can only speculate on what our current NIL budget is, but I'm sure it's not zero. My opinion is that Sha and his staff did not work hard enough or put the time into scrutinizing these transfers in. Sure, these are mainly second and, in some cases, the third-tier selections because of compensation, but these are by in large not savvy basketball players. Also, Sha has to take a big hit for not having his players in the proper mindset to perform. They are a bunch of nervous and unfocused players finishing plays and especially at the free throw line. He is so enamored with winning practice and not coaching urgency in the Out of Conference Games. It came back to haunt us last season and has basically destroyed this season. For me Sha has to kind of grow up a bit.

 

[SHallguy2]

The strategy of buying low and trying to coach them up is going to be how we live in large part because I think the budget is still just under $2M, so I agree with that in principle. But it already looks like we did too much of it with this roster. There's nobody that pops offensively. You need 1-2 alphas even if it costs you a bench.

If you have a low budget and try to build a bench, you could end up with a roster of not-good-enough players. That looks like what we did and with hope some of these guys who were highly touted in HS but bombed in their first stop would find themselves.

The Yankees made the world series

I was at the game when they blew the 5 run lead, Judge dropped the ball in center, Cole failed to cover first base. Talk about games that make you disgusted. This one ranks up there. My opinion on Yankees is tainted.

 

[Piratz]

We are in a tough spot as I see it. Our coach led an extremely small school to an Elite 8 and then Seton Hall to an NIT Championship just two years later. He knows basketball without question. So, what's going on? Although he inherited Richmond, he did sign Dawes and the Davis Brothers. Loved the way Dawes closed out his college career and for me Dre Davis was his best find. That type of basketball IQ is what you need on the court. Sandro and Rhoden had it also. Obviously, you need a Powell or Richmond on your Roster. You just can't afford to sign or pay players with such deficiencies in the NIL era. So far, this group collectively haven't produced, especially on offense or at the free throw line. I can only speculate on what our current NIL budget is, but I'm sure it's not zero. My opinion is that Sha and his staff did not work hard enough or put the time into scrutinizing these transfers in. Sure, these are mainly second and, in some cases, the third-tier selections because of compensation, but these are by in large not savvy basketball players. Also, Sha has to take a big hit for not having his players in the proper mindset to perform. They are a bunch of nervous and unfocused players finishing plays and especially at the free throw line. He is so enamored with winning practice and not coaching urgency in the Out of Conference Games. It came back to haunt us last season and has basically destroyed this season. For me Sha has to kind of grow up a bit.

What's going on is Sha put together a team that doesn't have enough skilled players offensively and far too many projects. And no PG. We can't play complementary basketball and so we lose games to weak teams.

 

[Burnsly]

The sad part is that even if we ran a crisp & complimentary offense we’d still have trouble scoring with this roster. Just crash the offensive boards. There’s a 60% chance the first shot is going to miss anyway.

 

[Piratz]

Depth is overrated in hoops. Particularly college hoops. You need one or two wagons and a few guys who can play their roles well. Look at our best teams over the past two decades. What would the 2015 team have been without Whitehead? Or the 2020 team without Powell? Those teams were not deep, but they had stars.

This going to be what be needs to recognize moving forward at this level. You don’t have the time to develop and retain even a small group of good players so the more players you add to that the harder. Plus we don’t have the budget.

 

[Bud Boomer]

Yea, I think the ideal model for a low budget school like SHU is 1 or 2 very highly-paid stars (preferably homegrown), 3-4 freshmen, 1-3 homegrown sophomores, and 6-8 low cost mercenaries who fit Shaheen’s style. Most of the budget should be going to the star players. The filler players can be found for cheap/free.

 

[SHUSource]

Yea, I think the ideal model for a low budget school like SHU is 1 or 2 very highly-paid stars (preferably homegrown), 3-4 freshmen, 1-3 homegrown sophomores, and 6-8 low cost mercenaries who fit Shaheen’s style. Most of the budget should be going to the star players. The filler players can be found for cheap/free.

I think after trying it one way this season, Shaheen might just come around to this way of thinking for next year. It might be the only way, unless he wants to keep essentially buying lottery tickets and hoping five tainted/damaged/unproven guys with big upsides all pan out every season. Hey, if it all broke the best possible way this year, we could've been pretty good. As it turned out, almost none of them are breaking right -- at least so far.

 

[Bud Boomer]

I think after trying it one way this season, Shaheen might just come around to this way of thinking for next year. It might be the only way, unless he wants to keep essentially buying lottery tickets and hoping five tainted/damaged/unproven guys with big upsides all pan out every season. Hey, if it all broke the best possible way this year, we could've been pretty good. As it turned out, almost none of them are breaking right -- at least so far.

Another problem with the 13 lottery ticket method is that the fans don’t know any of the kids. They aren’t invested in any of them yet. In the past, fans might show up in a rebuilding year to support what could be a bright future. Who is showing up to watch a bunch of players no one knows yet, and who will probably transfer at the end of the season anyway, lose games?

 

[mga pirate]

Even without NIL I don't understand the idea of having a rotation of 10-12 players. Basketball is not hockey

 

[Piratz]

Even without NIL I don't understand the idea of having a rotation of 10-12 players. Basketball is not hockey

Bc he wants to maintain a level of defensive intensity for 40 minutes and believes it comes from this approach to depth. He doesn’t value offense the same way. It’s also why his teams are always bad offensively. Look at the turnover rates too. Too many players, too little emphasis.

That ⬆️ could work if you had player retention to form cohesion. It’s easier to play good team defense than offense with that approach. I hope it gets better this year.

Last year ate at him bc he had to deal with the defensive lapses as had no options even if those came with better offense (which it did). Our offense last year was built on talented players we can’t pay and it was the best offense Sha ever coached statistically, by far. We won a few games bc of offense.

He’s going to do it his way. When it fails, the greats adjust. We’ll see.

 

[sami]

Bc he wants to maintain a level of defensive intensity for 40 minutes and believes it comes from this approach to depth. He doesn’t value offense the same way. It’s also why his teams are always bad offensively. Look at the turnover rates too. Too many players, too little emphasis.

That ⬆️ could work if you had player retention to form cohesion. It’s easier to play good team defense than offense with that approach. I hope it gets better this year.

Last year ate at him bc he had to deal with the defensive lapses as had no options even if those came with better offense (which it did). Our offense last year was built on talented players we can’t pay and it was the best offense Sha ever coached statistically, by far. We won a few games bc of offense.

He’s going to do it his way. When it fails, the greats adjust. We’ll see.

Our defense is absolute ass. Intensity has done nothing.

 

[SHUSA]

I think after trying it one way this season, Shaheen might just come around to this way of thinking for next year. It might be the only way, unless he wants to keep essentially buying lottery tickets and hoping five tainted/damaged/unproven guys with big upsides all pan out every season. Hey, if it all broke the best possible way this year, we could've been pretty good. As it turned out, almost none of them are breaking right -- at least so far.

bingo. took a gamble and lost. pivot.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Bc he wants to maintain a level of defensive intensity for 40 minutes and believes it comes from this approach to depth. He doesn’t value offense the same way. It’s also why his teams are always bad offensively. Look at the turnover rates too. Too many players, too little emphasis.

That ⬆️ could work if you had player retention to form cohesion. It’s easier to play good team defense than offense with that approach. I hope it gets better this year.

Last year ate at him bc he had to deal with the defensive lapses as had no options even if those came with better offense (which it did). Our offense last year was built on talented players we can’t pay and it was the best offense Sha ever coached statistically, by far. We won a few games bc of offense.

He’s going to do it his way. When it fails, the greats adjust. We’ll see.

Is it fair to question with our pace of play, why do we need 10-12 guys? Can't we keep up the intensity with 8? It would be hard to argue if we were and up and down the court team high number of possessions, but that's clearly not us at this point.

 

[Piratz]

Is it fair to question with our pace of play, why do we need 10-12 guys? Can't we keep up the intensity with 8? It would be hard to argue if we were and up and down the court team high number of possessions, but that's clearly not us at this point.

I completely agree with this. Nothing adds up on this team. That's why the offense is as bad as it is. It's tough to have a deep rotation when you have (1) a small NIL - you need to take too many risks to fill the rotation - and (2) so many new players trying to be worked in.

The pace is terrible even for a Sha team. Sha's teams never play with good tempo, but this is extreme even for him and is 100% on the PG position, IMO. Here are where is teams rank nationally in tempo/offensive efficiency/defensive efficiency/bench minutes for his career:

2018-19 St. Peter's = 342, 327, 252, 280
2019-20 St. Peter's = 197, 300, 80, 1
2020-21 St. Peter's = 253, 339, 61, 186
2021-22 St. Peter's = 247, 231, 25, 20
2022-23 Seton Hall = 227, 133, 20, 98
2023-24 Seton Hall = 231, 70, 33, 356
2024-25 Seton Hall = 359, 305, 33, 30

Crazy that he played the deepest bench in the country in 2019-20 and one of the thinnest in 2023-24. Not sure much more can be drawn because he had player retention at SPU, not here given NIL rules. But the bottom line is this year's team is trying too many weak players and it's not working.

 

[Seton75]

Depth is overrated in hoops. Particularly college hoops. You need one or two wagons and a few guys who can play their roles well. Look at our best teams over the past two decades. What would the 2015 team have been without Whitehead? Or the 2020 team without Powell? Those teams were not deep, but they had stars.

and then i looked at the 89 team. takes all kinds

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

and then i looked at the 89 team. takes all kinds

You have to go back 35 years to find that example. We don't have an Anthony Avent on our team, let alone coming off the bench. Jay Wright was successful with 7-8 guys most of his tenure. And I'm not really sure in the 90s we had many people saying let's give Sha less minutes and use the depth more.

 

[knowknow456]

Pace of play is just a fancier way of saying we are not good on offense. I think we need to slow the pace down even more. We don't want to take more shots; we want the other team shooting fewer since I think we are destined to lose any game where the opposition reaches 70 points.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Pace of play is just a fancier way of saying we are not good on offense. I think we need to slow the pace down even more. We don't want to take more shots; we want the other team shooting fewer since I think we are destined to lose any game where the opposition reaches 70 points.

No pace of play is a reference to the number of possessions not how good or bad. As for 70 points. That might be true going forward but that was not the case vs the crappy teams we barely beat or lost to.

 

[chickenbox]

Slowing down puts more of an onus on of effective execution against a set defense in the halfcourt. Something with which we struggle mightily. Figure out who can best push tempo while handling the ball and those who can receive passes while moving and play them more

 

[SHUSA]

I completely agree with this. Nothing adds up on this team. That's why the offense is as bad as it is. It's tough to have a deep rotation when you have (1) a small NIL - you need to take too many risks to fill the rotation - and (2) so many new players trying to be worked in.

The pace is terrible even for a Sha team. Sha's teams never play with good tempo, but this is extreme even for him and is 100% on the PG position, IMO. Here are where is teams rank nationally in tempo/offensive efficiency/defensive efficiency/bench minutes for his career:

2018-19 St. Peter's = 342, 327, 252, 280
2019-20 St. Peter's = 197, 300, 80, 1
2020-21 St. Peter's = 253, 339, 61, 186
2021-22 St. Peter's = 247, 231, 25, 20
2022-23 Seton Hall = 227, 133, 20, 98
2023-24 Seton Hall = 231, 70, 33, 356
2024-25 Seton Hall = 359, 305, 33, 30

Crazy that he played the deepest bench in the country in 2019-20 and one of the thinnest in 2023-24. Not sure much more can be drawn because he had player retention at SPU, not here given NIL rules. But the bottom line is this year's team is trying too many weak players and it's not working.

rarely do you have data and real insight from a decision you make. in this case it is resounding clear that the depth strategy with our NIL funds doesn't work. the risk is much greater than the reward. we're seeing it live.

next year must have a different strategy. if we dont then the rough questions have to be asked

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

rarely do you have data and real insight from a decision you make. in this case it is resounding clear that the depth strategy with our NIL funds doesn't work. the risk is much greater than the reward. we're seeing it live.

next year must have a different strategy. if we dont then the rough questions have to be asked

Not necessarily. The rules change next year with revenue sharing, so this strategy while ineffective this year, might be effective next year, we just don't know. I do think you have to question why the recruiting strategy to be deep, but play a style suited for no depth.

 

[knowknow456]

Slowing down puts more of an onus on of effective execution against a set defense in the halfcourt. Something with which we struggle mightily. Figure out who can best push tempo while handling the ball and those who can receive passes while moving and play them more

Sure, if we get a live ball turnover or a run out, we should take advantage but I don't think we're good enough offensively to win an up and down the floor contest. In my opinion, our best chance of winning right now is to play the best defense we can and take the air out of the ball on offense.