Border Analysis & Policy Recommendations from Niskanen Center
- Thread starter Stevie_H
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The good thing about having Trump's rhetoric on this issue is that it gives some room for dems to move a little to the right and look reasonable. Not saying they will but I hope they take advantage of the opening.
Both parties have failed to address comprehensive immigration reform for years. It’s a solvable problem and many of the suggestions in that article Not only makes sense, but should not be partisan. And we wonder why Congress has such a lousy approval rating. They have lost the ability to legislate on behalf of the American public, But as long as we reward them for their incompetence with our votes, what do you expect?
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I honestly believe it's just been a situation where it was better for the american public to be left unsolved. Once we stop exploiting the cheap labor of illegal immigrants, the price of everything goes up and it will hurt our economy. The issues has really just been for the talking points. The "emergency" declaration has definitely added some incentive to actually do something on the issue though.
Last night at a Trump rally, someone yelled that we should shoot the people trying to come to America and Trump laughed... Disgusting.
What do you mean by "unsolved"? Do nothing? Open borders? No problem with human or drug trafficking? I'd happily pay a little more if it prevented children from being sold into prostitution....but that's me....
I mean unsolved as in we haven't addressed the issue in my lifetime and in my opinion is that was by design. It's a lot more complex than paying a little more and preventing children being sold into prostitution... This is about overall immigration reform and the macroeconomic impact of either losing 11 million incredibly low wage workers and replacing them with people who would require a lot more money or getting those 11 million people on the books where they would now be legally allowed to be here and compete for employment. Everything will cost more, consumption will decline, employment will decrease if not mitigated in another way.
It's been easy for politicians to look the other way on this because there will be economic pain to do the right thing. I still and always have believed in amnesty and allowing those here to stay and getting them on the books as a part of a larger immigration reform package that will include improved border security.
I'm sorry but how does Congress keep getting a raise when A MAJOR ISSUE like the border goes unsolved? If I keep letting a major issue slide at work because I don't want to address it or I think it's better left unsolved, I can guarantee I'm not getting a raise.
People can hate Trump all they want, but no president, democrat or republican, has held Congress accountable for letting this slide. Both parties look stupid. Republicans for not doing anything about it when they held the majority everywhere and Democrats for saying we don't need much more than some drones to solve this issue.
Again, they aren't letting it slide just because they can't figure it out.
Assume for a moment that you solved one problem at work because it seemed like the right thing to do for your employees but it resulted in a decrease in sales. You think you would get a raise then because you solved one problem?
Like it or not, "fixing" illegal immigration will hurt our economy.
You wouldn't even need a wall. Place massive penalties on anyone hiring people without a proper background check and create a new task force to enforce that. That would be significantly more effective than a wall especially when the majority of illegal immigration is from vsa overstays.
You are oversimplifying the problem in that it would "hurt" the economy. Businesses take advantage of this labor pool because it's available. If we didn't have it, everyone would be on the same playing field but they would have to manage their costs to meet demand. That's what businesses do. And I thought you would be in favor of everyone making a living wage and not being in a position to be exploited. "Letting it happen" is a lousy strategy because you are suppressing wages, exploiting people and enabling other more significant issues that effect society (i.e. human and drug trafficking). I would agree that we should also have penalties for companies that hire illegals (I believe we have those now, but their not enforced very well....and if I'm not mistaken, some of those brilliant politicians want to abolish those enforcement groups like ICE).
Of course. That is my point. Businesses that take advantage of the labor would no longer be able to and prices go up.
You may be misunderstanding my posts. I am opining on why nothing has been done, not that I believe that was the correct path.
Agree 100%. It is lousy. I am not excusing it, just providing my thoughts as to why there hasn't been the political will to do something.
Glad we agree. Politicians are lazy and by design avoid any difficult decisions. Another reason why you do not want government running healthcare.
Did you post the right link?
In that one he said a wall 40 stories high wouldn't be effective against illegal immigration.
Actually he said fence. He also said other things that sound very familiar.
"And the reason why I add that parenthetically, why I believe the fence is needed does not have anything to do with immigration as much as drugs,"
"And let me tell you something folks, people are driving across that border with tons, tons, hear me, tons of everything from byproducts for methamphetamine to cocaine to heroin and it's all coming up through corrupt Mexico."
Speaking at a September 2007 debate at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire, Biden said he would not allow so-called sanctuary cities to ignore federal law.
"Yes or no, would you allow those cities to ignore the federal law?" Biden was asked. "No," he responded.
It's almost as if circumstances may have changed in 13 years after we passed a bill and built hundreds of miles of fencing...
Sure, I've agreed with that... but why are we talking about a quote from 2006 in 2019? We literally built hundreds of miles of fencing since then.
Shouldn't we take what we learned from that experience and move forward from there?
Or are we just playing "gotcha"?
Newsflash: that large green area with all the trees is a forest.
Nobody's playing gotcha. it's a very simple point. We have a president now who has been talking about and doing things about the horrific flow of drugs crime and gangs across an unprotected border. He proposed a measly 6 million dollars to shore up that border with a wall. Democrats play politics with that.
the president has
also called for comprehensive immigration reform including a path the citizenship for the dreamers.
the president and many Americans are simply asking that people who want to come to this country do so at points of entry.
Our weak physical border security and the loopholes in our immigration laws are being exploited at a dangerous pace.
Instead of coming to a reasonable agreement to address this problem which affects us all greatly, games are being played.
The dems are doing anything they can to win an election in 2020. They are putting that ahead of the legitimate interests of the country.
Nobody's playing gotcha. it's a very simple point. We have a president now who has been talking about and doing things about the horrific flow of drugs crime and gangs across an unprotected border. He proposed a measly 6 million dollars to shore up that border with a wall. Democrats play politics with that.
the president has
also called for comprehensive immigration reform including a path the citizenship for the dreamers.
the president and many Americans are simply asking that people who want to come to this country do so at points of entry.
Our weak physical border security and the loopholes in our immigration laws are being exploited at a dangerous pace.
Instead of coming to a reasonable agreement to address this problem which affects us all greatly, games are being played.
The dems are doing anything they can to win an election in 2020. They are putting that ahead of the legitimate interests of the country.
'
Lets not pretend either side puts the interests of the country first. Their biggest priority is keeping their job.
Republicans can't support amnesty and Democrats can't support rounding up every undocumented person and kicking them out of the country or they will get a primary challenger and lose their job.
The middle ground is that they kick the can down the road and hope the issue remains a political win for them to campaign on.
The solution from my view seems fairly straight forward.
Amnesty with a path towards citizenship.
Massive penalties / jail time for people employing those here illegally
Increased border security.
Long-term, the items new list are sound.
There is a short term problem that needs to be addressed.
They need to modify catch and release. They need more judges to adjudicate asylum claims more rapidly. They need to deploy suitable detention facilities.
There is a short term problem that needs to be addressed.
They need to modify catch and release. They need more judges to adjudicate asylum claims more rapidly. They need to deploy suitable detention facilities.
I assume you were exaggerating to make a point. Nobody is suggesting they want to do that.
Deportion for some. The bad apples.
Fines for some. The misdemeanor of entering the country legally.
Jail for some. Entering the country illegally more than once.
For some, temporary visa/green card with the requirement that they leave or report in at the expiration of that. Evaluation for granting extensions for those that want to become citizens. Extensions granted on reasonable criteria that they are leading productive lawful lives.
Grandfather the dreamers, but end that loophole.
Eliminate instant citizenship for people born to illegal immigrants.
I'm certain I'm missing things but it's a start.
Fines for some. The misdemeanor of entering the country legally.
Jail for some. Entering the country illegally more than once.
For some, temporary visa/green card with the requirement that they leave or report in at the expiration of that. Evaluation for granting extensions for those that want to become citizens. Extensions granted on reasonable criteria that they are leading productive lawful lives.
Grandfather the dreamers, but end that loophole.
Eliminate instant citizenship for people born to illegal immigrants.
I'm certain I'm missing things but it's a start.
The dems have absolutely spun the wall to their advantage as a political football.
The purpose of the wall is to eliminate illegal entry. It clearly cannot accomplish that at 100% but a significant reduction would be greatly helpful.
Dems spin the wall to imply Trump does not want "brown" people to enter the country. Simply not true. He is demanding the come in at a point of entry.
At present, for those arriving at a point of entry existing laws and processes have to be followed. Where those processes need to be changed, laws should be passed accordingly. A sovereign nation has a right to establish and enforce an immigration policy.
Just one example:
Somebody enters at a point of entry and says they are here to visit a relative. They tell the border agent that they plan on staying two weeks. They're allowed to enter. They then stay for years and give birth to a child.
In the above example I don't see that the parents or the child get a free pass.
The purpose of the wall is to eliminate illegal entry. It clearly cannot accomplish that at 100% but a significant reduction would be greatly helpful.
Dems spin the wall to imply Trump does not want "brown" people to enter the country. Simply not true. He is demanding the come in at a point of entry.
At present, for those arriving at a point of entry existing laws and processes have to be followed. Where those processes need to be changed, laws should be passed accordingly. A sovereign nation has a right to establish and enforce an immigration policy.
Just one example:
Somebody enters at a point of entry and says they are here to visit a relative. They tell the border agent that they plan on staying two weeks. They're allowed to enter. They then stay for years and give birth to a child.
In the above example I don't see that the parents or the child get a free pass.
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What you are suggesting isn't unreasonable outside of the fine which doesn't really accomplish anything in my opinion, but republicans will not support something with a path towards citizenship.
Cost benefit analysis. A wall costing tens of billions that doesn't do anything to address the majority of the problem isn't really helpful.
I don't think Trump really cares about the issue outside of caring that his supporters care about the issue and he is happy to demagogue and get people angry about it though and that's the part I don't like. At this point I think he doesn't want to fail in delivering a wall even if he has to establish a new dangerous precedent to do it by declaring a national emergency.
Insert just about any politicians name where you entered Trump. As far as precedents, I agree with you 100%. All presidents need to understand how their actions will impact future presidents making decisions.
If you make the fine "massive" as you have said before then it would accomplish something.
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