Catholic Church Assisting Illegals

[400SOAVE]

In an effort to stop "hijacking" the Fatima thread, I'm creating a new thread for those who care to debate the subject.

Below is an article quoting Pope Francis and the Cardinal of Mexico strongly supporting and encouraging illegal immigration to the U.S. (They are very slick and disingenuous because they don't say it directly, but they may as well have said it.)

Note how they say nothing strong against the decades-long problem of rampant crime, corruption and discrimination that exist in Mexico, and most other countries in Central America.

Their answer to everything is that the American taxpayer should take care of people from other countries. I wonder why the vatican doesn't offer free tuition to all illegals at Catholic schools.

Meanwhile, the U.S. is well on its way to bankruptcy as our $18 trillion debt grows every day.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/15/pope-francis-immigrant-children_n_5588442.html

And you can do an internet search for the Catholic church and sanctuary churches to learn even more about the Catholic church's direct involvement in supporting illegal immigration to the U.S.

 

[Merge]

I don't consider myself to be very religious but you have a sever lack of understanding of Catholicism if you would expect anything other than putting humanitarian needs above a border.

His message was to protect the children, and promote development in Mexico so they don't need to leave. That is not even remotely close to the church promoting illegal immigration. Your suggesting in silly honestly.

 

[Old_alum]

Below is an article quoting Pope Francis and the Cardinal of Mexico strongly supporting and encouraging illegal immigration to the U.S. (They are very slick and disingenuous because they don't say it directly, but they may as well have said it.)

LOL So you admit they do not say ANYTHING about encouraging or supporting illegal immigration into the US. But you and only you apparently know what their REAL message is, huh?

Your linked Huffington Post quotes the Pope as saying:

"This humanitarian emergency requires, as a first urgent measure, these children be welcomed and protected {ed: in Mexico}. These measures, however, will not be sufficient, unless they are accompanied by {ed: Mexican} policies that inform people about the dangers of such a journey and, above all, that promote development in their countries of origin."

"Whether (the children) travel for reasons of poverty, violence or the hope of uniting with families on the other side of the border," Parolin said, "it is urgent to protect and assist them, because their frailty is greater and they're defenseless, they're at the mercy of any abuse or misfortune."

Would you please be specific about the reasons you see a hidden threat to the US from protecting children from abuse?

Note how they say nothing strong against the decades-long problem of rampant crime, corruption and discrimination that exist in Mexico, and most other countries in Central America.

When was the last time you heard any diplomat visiting any foreign country proceed to publicly condemn the host for "rampant crime, corruption and discrimination"?

Their answer to everything is that the American taxpayer should take care of people from other countries.

And the Pope said this where???

I wonder why the vatican doesn't offer free tuition to all illegals at Catholic schools.

First, the Vatican does not administer any Catholic schools in the US.

That said, do you have any evidence that tuition support or forgiveness is not provided?

Meanwhile, the U.S. is well on its way to bankruptcy as our $18 trillion debt grows every day.

And the Catholic Church is responsible for this in what way??


400, it seems to me that you might have some prejudice against the Catholic Church.

If you do, would you care to discuss the reasons for that?

 

[400SOAVE]

LOL So you admit they do not say ANYTHING about encouraging or supporting illegal immigration into the US. But you and only you apparently know what their REAL message is, huh?

Your linked Huffington Post quotes the Pope as saying:


Would you please be specific about the reasons you see a hidden threat to the US from protecting children from abuse?




When was the last time you heard any diplomat visiting any foreign country proceed to publicly condemn the host for "rampant crime, corruption and discrimination"?



And the Pope said this where???



First, the Vatican does not administer any Catholic schools in the US.

That said, do you have any evidence that tuition support or forgiveness is not provided?



And the Catholic Church is responsible for this in what way??


400, it seems to me that you might have some prejudice against the Catholic Church.

If you do, would you care to discuss the reasons for that?

Prejudice means to pre-judge. I have post-judged. I have looked into the historical facts and the facts as they exist today.

If people want to invent and manufacture their personal "reality" that conforms to their own personal beliefs then that's their problem. I'm going to state the facts regardless of how ugly they are and who they "offend."

Between this thread and other one, I've posted three links, I believe. There are hundreds more news reports about this issue, including articles about all the sanctuary churches around our country, many of them Catholic. Look them up.

In the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops statement detailing their position on illegal immigration they state:

The first duty is to welcome the foreigner out of charity and respect for the human person. Persons have the right to immigrate and thus government must accommodate this right to the greatest extent possible, especially financially blessed nations: "The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him."

http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-act...gration/churchteachingonimmigrationreform.cfm

Note the specific language coming from the Catholic bishops. (I have put the key words in boldface.) These bishops are highly educated people. These words are not there by accident. They feel that Mexicans, Salvadorans, Guatemalans, etc. have the right to come here whenever they want.

And how nice for the Catholic church that those people happen to be mostly Catholic. What an amazing coincidence!

Then the bishops go on to state:

Congress should examine the root causes of migration, such as under‐development and poverty in sending countries, and seek long‐term solutions. The antidote to the problem of illegal immigration is sustainable economic development in sending countries. In an ideal world, migration should be driven by choice, not necessity.

This goes to my point about demanding changes in foreign nations that send illegals here. Why do the U.S. taxpayers have to do this? Do you think Americans can walk into a foreign country and make demands?

Since the church and so many politicians want U.S. taxpayers to take care of citizens of other countries then they should DEMAND an end to that ingrained culture of crime, corruption and discrimination. The problems have existed for many decades in those countries, which, by the way, have millions of citizens who sway to the hard left.

Earlier this year, the president of Mexico called the U.S. and Cuba "two great friends of Mexico."
When you consider Cuba your "great friend," that says a lot about you, especially when you consider that Cuba, with the backing of the Soviet Union/Russia, has spend more than 50 years spreading war throughout Latin America.

http://news.yahoo.com/latest-americas-summit-formal-summit-session-starts-145302634.html

So these countries have often been in lock-step with the Castro brothers, they completely f'up their economies and now they turn to capitalist Uncle Sam for money. (Literally every country in Latin America fought hard for Cuba to be re-integrated into their summits. Most have expressed great sympathy and kinship towards the Castros.

The U.S. government can't take care of its own people. I repeat, we are $18 trillion in debt. New Jersey is at least $45 billion in debt. Millions of college grads are paying off student loans well into their 30s. Our taxes are out of control. I can go on and on.

With these facts in mind, WTF are we doing spending borrowed money to feed, house, clothe, educate and take care of the medical needs of illegal immigrants?

Finally, can you site one Catholic school in the United States that welcomes any and all illegals into their school for free? I'm sure the underpaid teachers in those schools would love that.

Does Seton Hall offer free tuition to illegals? How about Notre Dame or Georgtown or St. John's?

And those of you who live the nice suburbs of NJ: How many illegals are you prepared to welcome into your town and into your school system? How many?

Your Catholic sensibility surely tells you that your kids and grandkids should share their classroom time with several illegals. It's the charitable and Catholic thing to do. Isn't it.

Or perhaps you don't mind hundreds of illegals in school in Newark and Paterson schools, but not in that township you chose to move to because of its good school system.

While we're at it, can we start putting some homeless shelters in the suburbs. It's the Catholic thing to do. They all seem to be located in urban areas, like the one I live in.

 

[400SOAVE]

BTW, there are also millions of people coming here from the Caribbean, Africa, the Middle East, India, Bangladesh, etc. In other words, ACBW- Any Color But White.

Regardless of where people are coming from, we don't have the money. It's unsustainable.

 

[knowknow456]

Let me put your mind at ease. You got so nervous over the first paragraph that you forgot to read the second paragraph..

The second duty is to secure one’s border and enforce the law for the sake of the common good. Sovereign nations have the right to enforce their laws and all persons must respect the legitimate exercise of this right:

ACBW- Any Color But White.

I am surprised given you are concerned about illegal immigration that you support White Illegal Immigration. In theory, color should be irrelevant to your position.

 

[400SOAVE]

Where did I say that I support any kind of ILLEGAL immigration?

 

[400SOAVE]

The Wall Street Journal today reports that 62.7 percent of Americans are in the labor force, the lowest level since 1977. (It's unclear how those numbers are affected by either retirements or people who have given up looking for a job.)

Yet the same article stresses that many companies are struggling to hire workers. Why? Black teen unemployment is twice as high as the overall figures.

You have many STEM college grads trying to find jobs, yet thousands of visas are handed out for those same jobs to people from India and other counties.

Can anybody disagree that the American government should help Americans before anybody else? Why do our elected officials help out foreigners before Americans?

Why are we giving billions of dollars we have borrowed to countries like Israel and Egypt?

Let's put out our fires before anybody else's.

 

[knowknow456]

BTW, there are also millions of people coming here from the Caribbean, Africa, the Middle East, India, Bangladesh, etc. In other words, ACBW- Any Color But White.

What is really bothering you is that we have millions of people coming here who are not white colored. I understand you are racist but it undermines your position on immigration.

 

[400SOAVE]

What is really bothering you is that we have millions of people coming here who are not white colored. I understand you are racist but it undermines your position on immigration.

Actually, you're the racist.

And you are not capable of countering the facts I have posted with facts and figures to back you up.

You cannot intimidate me with your ad hominem.

 

[400SOAVE]

According to the Department of Homeland Security Office of Immigration Statistics, here are the "Country of Origin" numbers as of Jan. 1 2013, the most recent year available.

These top 15 are only for "Country of Birth of Lawful Permanent Resident Population: 2013." This does not include the millions of illegals who are here. And we know they are mostly from Mexico and other places in Central America.

Mexico, 3,280,000
China, 660,000
Philippines, 580,000
India, 540,000
Dom. Rep., 480,000
Cuba, 410,000
Vietnam, 330,000
El Salvador, 320,000
Canada, 320,000
UK, 290,000
South Korea, 290,000
Haiti, 250,000
Jamaica, 240,000
Colombia, 230,000
Guatemala, 190,000

http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ois_lpr_pe_2013.pdf

Of course, for some people, stating the obvious is cause to engage in personal attacks. Par for the course. Perhaps they are too lazy or too ignorant to find facts.

 

[400SOAVE]

Here are links for pictures of the last 10 presidents of Mexico going back 50 years. As you can see, all but one is white. They don't look anything like Mexican illegals who we see in this country.

Since many people here are clueless about the world outside the Jersey Shore, I'll inform you that in Mexico, whites call non-whites "indigenos." That means "indigenous."

This is just one example of what I mean by institutionalized discrimination in most countries in Central America.

http://ethixbase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Enrique-Peña-Nieto1.jpg

http://www.renewableenergymexico.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Felipe-Calderon.jpg

http://vallartaopina.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/FOX.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...ce_de_Leon_World_Economic_Forum_2013_crop.jpg

http://a1.files.biography.com/image...1200,q_80,w_1200/MTE5NTU2MzE1OTQ4NjE1MTc5.jpg

http://www.peoples.ru/state/politics/miguel_de_la_madrid/madrid_1.jpg

https://cdn.goconqr.com/uploads/image_clipping/image/268466/desktop_jose_lopez_portillo.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3QSIw2TAYcw/TvtyOeNllwI/AAAAAAAAE_U/jGZLSG7v1og/s1600/PRI+-+Echeverria.jpg

http://www.ourmaninmexico.com/images/ordaz.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Adolfo_López_Mateos_(1963).jpg

 

[knowknow456]

You are what you are and your un-ironic ad hominem reply didn't help your cause. (I'm rubber! You're glue!). But seriously, you should examine your thought process just a little. You might be surprised by what you find.

 

[Merge]

The Wall Street Journal today reports that 62.7 percent of Americans are in the labor force, the lowest level since 1977. (It's unclear how those numbers are affected by either retirements or people who have given up looking for a job.)

It is not a coincidence that is when the baby boom generation started entering the workforce...
We started to have a higher percentage of the population between the ages of 16-65 than we normally did. More of those people work than those older than 65.

College enrollment as a percentage of the population between 18-25 is significantly higher than it was in the 70's.

We have also had a relatively recent increase in the number of stay at home mothers. In the 60's almost 50% of mothers stayed at home which declined down to 23% in 1999 and has climbed back up to 29% by 2012.

There are valid reasons the participation rate is down.

Can anybody disagree that the American government should help Americans before anybody else? Why do our elected officials help out foreigners before Americans?

That is an absurd straw man argument. We are capable of doing more than one thing at a time.
We don't put foreigners ahead of Americans.

 

[400SOAVE]

Merge, if you show up at a hospital and are treated, will they provide the service to you for free?

If you arrived this morning illegally from any country and you show up at a hospital and are treated, will they provide the service for free? Will the hospital pursue payment, assuming they even bothered to verify the unverifiable, i.e. your identity?

You know the answer to both questions.

This is just one example of putting Americans second.

And now here is what California just did: In effect, Mexico and Central America are now part of California.

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-california-immigrant-rights-20150811-story.html#page=1

Last week two illegals were appointed to commissions. They were selected instead of American citizens.

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-immigration-officeholder-20150804-story.html#page=1

The official state debt of CA is $263 billion. Furthermore, they have approved BORROWING via bonds an additional $31 billion, and the own Uncle Sam $10 billion.

They have deferred $66 billion for maintenance and infrastructure.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-greece-and-california-debt-20150127-story.html

So our biggest state is in heavy debt, they're borrowing money, they're not maintaining their state yet they welcome millions of illegals and pay millions of dollars for services for citizens of Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, etc.

And you tell me that's not putting illegal aliens ahead to Americans?

BTW, I'm still waiting for an example of a Catholic school that offers free tuition to illegals.

 

[Merge]

Merge, if you show up at a hospital and are treated, will they provide the service to you for free?

If you arrived this morning illegally from any country and you show up at a hospital and are treated, will they provide the service for free? Will the hospital pursue payment, assuming they even bothered to verify the unverifiable, i.e. your identity?

You know the answer to both questions.

My mother-in-law broke her ankle in Ireland. She didn't pay anything to have it treated.
Is Ireland putting Foreigners ahead of their citizens? No.

Indeed illegal immigrants accounted for part of how much we have been spending on uncompensated medical care... but Americans accounted for about 85-90% of it.

 

[400SOAVE]

I'd glad you didn't bother to read those articles full of details about free services by states and a country that is approaching $19 trillion in debt.

"Americans accounted for 85-90% of it." Are you kidding me? That's your argument that's supposed to make it OK? Americans should be accounting for about 99.9 percent that bill. American taxpayer's money should be going to Americans.

While Ireland is so generous, if that happens in Mexico, be prepared to pay via cash or credit card. I know two people who got sick (different families, different years) and that's they way in went down. No money. No treatment.

This issue is really a worldwide problem. The EU is facing an enormous wave of illegal immigration from the Africa and the Middle East. Australia is also dealing with this.

Yet none of these countries facing the wave are making any demands that governments shape up. In Mexico, there seems to be a soft spot for drug traffickers who murder and behead people by the thousands. El Chapo is a hero to a huge number of Mexicans.

Why? Those narco-traffickers sometimes provide the services and protection that fat government officials are unwilling or incapable of providing. For many it's simply that they're terrified of being tortured and murdered.

Yet our government makes no demands against Mexico.

 

[400SOAVE]

And then there's Social Security, which will run out of money soon.

Guess when the SS disability trust will run out of money?

A. In 25 years
B. In 10 years
C. In 5 years
D. Next year

The answer is D.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/0fd8...-securitys-disability-crisis#overlay-context=

The retirement fund is good until 2035, though many believe that's optimistic. So what's the solution to the disability shortfall by some in congress? Take money from the retirement fund to cover the disability fund. It's been done before.

All these problems in the billions of dollars affecting millions of Americans.

Yet the U.S. Foreign Aid budget for 2016 is... are you ready... $50.3 billion.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/236395.pdf

It's nauseating to know that New Jersey cannot get money to fix the serious transportation issue to NYC, yet we're sending billions to Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras and for scholarships to attend college in the U.S.

We are paying for Jews to immigrate to Israel. I guess the $3.1 billion they're about to get, and the hundreds of billions of dollars we've given them over the decades won't cover that cost.

Meanwhile, NJ cannot pay for its pensions.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ss...istie_vetoes_pension_gun_bi.html#incart_river

We are truly suckers.

 

[Seton75]

Sounds like you are voting for Trump.

 

[400SOAVE]

I have to say that's it's no fun to debate here.

I cite tons of facts, figures and sources, and all you get in response are name-calling and some example about a mother-in-law.

 

[Bobbie Solo]

b/c you come off like this...

 

[Merge]

I have to say that's it's no fun to debate here.

I cite tons of facts, figures and sources, and all you get in response are name-calling and some example about a mother-in-law.

It is pointless to debate you because you are seriously coming off as crazy and have changed the topic of this thread from the church supporting illegal immigration to US policy towards foreign aid.

You said the church is promoting illegal immigration which is complete nonsense and is easily refuted by your "facts" if you are able to read beyond the first paragraph of your link of the Pope's comments.

You are alluding the labor participation rate being down because we are pay foreign aid... which again is nonsense. The labor force decreased by the facts I posted above, and if we paid zero in foreign aid the participation rate would remain unchanged.

Same thing with social security (which has received hundreds of billions of dollars from illegal immigrants btw who will never receive a dime)... If we did not spend anything on foreign aid... Social security would not be impacted at all.

Each issue is separate and are not tied to anything else. We will not run out of social security disability money. The program will be fixed before next year. We will not run out of social security money either as that will be fixed in 20 years.

 

[Old_alum]

I have to say that's it's no fun to debate here. I cite tons of facts, figures and sources, and all you get in response are name-calling and some example about a mother-in-law.

OK, my friend. I suspect no one here --- or perhaps anywhere in the US ---- is surprised to learn that we have serious problems with illegal aliens, social security, infrastructure, and unemployment.

As Merge explained, none of that has anything significant to do with the Catholic Church. Agreed?

I know anecdotally that several of the parishes to which I have belonged have made it a policy to subsidize all students, and to use a floating-scale, so some attend free-of-charge. You'll have to take my word for it. That said, the Catholic Church continues to provide more aid to the poor and the sick, here and abroad, than any other non-governmental contributor in the world, and more for AIDS --- as one example --- than any government.

That said, it is easy to raise alarms about a myriad of topics. You seem to have shifted your focus from the Catholic Church and that is ok.

It was way back in the early 1970s that virtually the entire private sector switched from defined benefits to defined contributions plans because it was clear as day to anyone who looked at it that defined-benefits were a one-way street to insolvency.

If the US government had not changed the rules on Social Security to make it a part of "general revenues" and, instead, had treated FICA taxes as an actuarial would recommend, then I suspect we would not have that issue on the table, let alone screaming for attention. (Of course there would be a TON more GO debt for the Treasury. But if QE is palatable, who cares?? )

Elected government officials --- federal and state --- always like to give away other people's money (OPM). Nothing new there.

So here is the bottom-line. How would you deal with these problems?

If your were medical czar what criteria would use to deny ER treatment to the needy?

How do you recommend we treat illegal adolescents captured inside our borders? Feed them or no? Give them a one-way ticket, or merely truck them to the border and escort them back to Mexico at bayonet point and aim the machine guns at any who turned back?

Do you favor a mandatory national ID card for ALL living in the US?

And what would you do on foreign aide? Cut it off cold-turkey? To everyone? What about ISIS/ Iraq? Afghanistan? Korea?

What would you specifically do to bail-out SSA? NJ? Detroit?

As Senator Edward Dirksen of Illinois once famously said " A (b)illion here, a (b)illion there. Pretty soon it adds up to real money!"

Please tell us how to save red blooded Americans from the alien hordes after the wanton-spending budgets of the last 80 years?

And I still am afraid I have no idea what your real problem with the Catholic Church --- despite all of your links. Can you please state it clearly and simply in your own words?

THEN I know a LOT of posters will be happy to debate you.

 

[400SOAVE]

--Old_alum, as I have repeatedly stated, the point about citing our debt and serious fiscal challenges is that the U.S. cannot afford to take care of all needs of tens of millions of illegals from all over the world when our government cannot take care of the citizens who are already here.

We can't even run the local, county, state and federal government without borrowing money.

I know all of you Wall Street types and lawyers love this because you just love to collect all those underwriting fees, bank fees, legal fees and other associated costs.

Government debt equals big business on Wall Street and at banks. It can be really sweet to be bond counsel, push some paper and collect your fee. WooHoo!

Meanwhile, the taxpayers can spend decades paying back the money, with interest.

--If people want to repeatedly deny that churches are serving as "sanctuaries" for illegals then go ahead. I wrote that you can easily do an internet search for the subject and find hundreds of news articles dating back many years.

Merge, you cite nothing to back up the frequently repeated claim that illegals pay billions in taxes. Why? Because it's an unverifiable claim. Millions are working off the books. And billions of their earnings are being sent back to help their families. The NY Times estimated the number at about $23 billion in 2013 alone.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/02/03/world/americas/ap-lt-mexico-remittances.html?_r=0

Below is just one article that tried to verify and could not.

It seems that Bernie Sanders will say anything to support his argument and others will repeat until it become a "fact."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...nts-pay-more-in-taxes-than-some-corporations/

--Old_alum, I will answer all your questions when you answer these questions:

What does Mexico do with illegal aliens who cross into their country?
What does the Dominican Republic do when Haitians illegally cross into their country?
What does China do? What about India? What do they do if somebody from Pakistan or Bangladesh enters their country? How about South Africa? If you're an American citizen can you fly to the UK and get a job?

If you do the research and answer accurately, people on this board will be calling all those governments "racist" and "crazy."

 

[Old_alum]

--Old_alum, as I have repeatedly stated, the point about citing our debt and serious fiscal challenges is that the U.S. cannot afford to take care of all needs of tens of millions of illegals from all over the world when our government cannot take care of the citizens who are already here.

--Old_alum, I will answer all your questions when you answer these questions:

What does Mexico do with illegal aliens who cross into their country?
What does the Dominican Republic do when Haitians illegally cross into their country?
What does China do? What about India? What do they do if somebody from Pakistan or Bangladesh enters their country? How about South Africa? If you're an American citizen can you fly to the UK and get a job?

If you do the research and answer accurately, people on this board will be calling all those governments "racist" and "crazy."

I have no idea what Mexico, DR, PRC, India, or any other country does. I will be happy to read it if you post it, but IMHO that is totally irrelevant to any discussion of the US, let alone the Catholic Church. Since when does the US pick the lowest common denominator to set a standard? Should we model our political system on theirs?

Yes, the US has that litany of problems listed (immigration, SSA, debt and unemployment) among a myriad of others.

If one were to use your logic then ANY misspent money by any government would be cause for condemnation of everything. This is NOT heaven.

To condemn the Catholic Church because of the horrible misdeeds of some of its billions of members would be like condemning all of the US democratic system because of the 18th and 19th century travesties perpetrated on the Native Americans. You can't throw the baby out with the bath water!

If you had entitled this thread "Assisting Illegal Aliens is a problem in the US", I --- and I suspect a few others ---- would have reacted with a loud: "DUH!!!"

There are hundreds of things wrong with the democratic system and with the capitalist system, but they are still worlds better than the alternatives. There are 1,000s of things wrong with the UN system, but IMHO we should not abandon communicating, even with so many built-in biases. And there are hundreds of things wrong with the Catholic Church, BUT for the Church the problems are all with its members--- not with the Catholic system, itself, IMHO.

Remember:
I Cor3:19 The wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
and
Mat19:26 With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

We are only here to get to heaven. But also read the Acts of the Apostles: those who do not work will not eat.

In God's eyes which is more important: giving refuge to scared strangers (albeit illegal) or increasing one's wealth by, say, 10%?

I am no saint! I work very hard at trying to improve my retirement position. But the defined "poverty level" in the US is an exponentially better standard of living than almost anywhere south of here. Dinesh D'Souza said he emigrated to the US because he wanted to be where the poor people all had color TV sets. That said, I should do more for the poor --- probably a lot more. (Will Rogers said: "Any preacher with two coats is a hypocrite.") But I do not think it is right to condemn others when they try to help the poor --- of any nationality or race. They are truly our primary mission.

I shall accept that there are 100s if not 1,000s of Catholic churches (lower case) which have offered refuge to illegals. That is truly an age-old tradition. But what would the government do with those illegals if there were no sanctuary? Would they incarcerate them, deport them or shoot them? Or would they have to feed & shelter them --- if only for a few weeks?

So it is your turn, 400SOAve. Enough with the blanket condemnations of the status quo. Let him without sin.....

Exactly what do you want to be done by whom and paid for by whom?

 

[Merge]

Merge, you cite nothing to back up the frequently repeated claim that illegals pay billions in taxes. Why? Because it's an unverifiable claim. Millions are working off the books. And billions of their earnings are being sent back to help their families. The NY Times estimated the number at about $23 billion in 2013 alone

I'm not just making it up. Illegal immigrants pay billions in taxes.

http://www.itep.org/immigration/

An estimated 3.1 million illegal immigrants are also using fake SSN's for their job and make payroll tax contributions.

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/NOTES/pdf_notes/note151.pdf

"We estimate $13 billion in OASDI payroll taxes from unauthorized immigrant workers and their employers in 2010. This number reflects earnings for those with no recorded SSN, those who have obtained an SSN with fraudulent identification, and those with legitimate SSNs who have overstayed temporary visas."

That is over 10 billion every year contributed for the retirement benefit of Americans.

 

[knowknow456]

Here is the answer you will get - What is needed is a wall and not some rinky dink wall across Mexico like that liberal pansy Trump wants. No, a wall that spans the entire perimeter of the US. With a roof on it. With one door at the Mexican border. Anyone who doesn't fit the profile of ACBW will be marched to that door at the business end of a bayonet.

Isolationism is still a thing

 

[400SOAVE]

--Since you won't do the research, I'll just say that Mexico has what are probably the most strict laws in the world when it come to protecting their borders, their sovereignty and preventing foreigners from getting jobs.

The big exception in Mexico is American retirees who are welcomed because they purchase property, spend their money in Mexico and are not on the dole. And they don't work.

In other words, the priority of the Mexican government is the Mexican people, as it should be. Years ago they nationalized the oil industry. Why?

Are they racist? Are they isolationists?

--Merge, shame on you for calling illegals criminals. Do you mean to say they're committing fraud? Wow! I'm shocked! Shocked! That's racist.

--Alright, we're obviously not going to resolve these issues. We fundamentally disagree about the priorities of government spending.

--Since you are so generous with other people's money, I do suggest that you folks volunteer to pay more income taxes and property taxes, and cut your retirement benefits.

Set an example.

--I just thought of something. Anybody who disagrees with me is racist... and a child molester. And you smell bad. You steal. And your clothes don't fit, not mention, your hair is ugly. And you momma wears combat boots. And you're a racist.

See how quickly I learn the debate game. I went to Wharton School of Finance.

--Finally, here's the best solution I've seen to resolve the national debt. Then we can make Mexico the 52nd state, after Puerto Rico becomes the 51st and we can take over their debt. It would be racist and nationalistic not to.

 

[Merge]

Merge, shame on you for calling illegals criminals. Do you mean to say they're committing fraud? Wow! I'm shocked! Shocked! That's racist.

Is that your way of recognizing that you were wrong and illegal immigrants do actually pay taxes and have paid over a hundred billion into social security?

 

[Old_alum]

--Since you won't do the research, I'll just say that Mexico has what are probably the most strict laws in the world when it come to protecting their borders, their sovereignty and preventing foreigners from getting jobs.

If you will read what I wrote I said that what those other countries do is "irrelevant". I am sure that Wharton --- like all good business schools --- spends time teaching students to discern relevant information from irrelevant information, does it not?

Irrelevant does not equate to unwilling.

That said, I DO NOT CARE what other countries do or do not do to protect their citizens and their economy!!!

ALL I care about is what is best for the US.

I am still waiting for specific suggestions on how you would improve the status quo.

IMHO the best way for you to change what you feel is this board's "misimpression" of your points is to make specific, cogent statements that do not jump from the Church to the Federal Government to Mexico and so forth.

When posters write the words that seem to further incense you, are you going to try to understand the reasons you have created these "misimpressions" or not?

And just as a tangential and IRRELEVANT curiosity, if "Mexico has what are probably the most strict laws in the world when it come to protecting their borders" how do those hundreds-of-thousands of Central Americans transmigrate across their country to ours?

In other words, the priority of the Mexican government is the Mexican people, as it should be. Years ago they nationalized the oil industry. Why?
Are they racist? Are they isolationists?

And these two comments are relevant how? Please be specific.

HOW do you want the US to prioritize its actions?

WHICH industries is it that you want the US government to nationalize?

--Alright, we're obviously not going to resolve these issues. We fundamentally disagree about the priorities of government spending.

How can you say "we fundamentally disagree" when you haven't told us anything about what your "priorities of government spending" are??

You have failed to say ANYTHING FUNDAMENTAL --- except that you are unhappy with immigrants and debt and the Church.

--Since you are so generous with other people's money, I do suggest that you folks volunteer to pay more income taxes and property taxes, and cut your retirement benefits.

Please cite where I suggested being "generous with other people's money".
Where did that come from??

Set an example.

--I just thought of something. Anybody who disagrees with me is racist... and a child molester. And you smell bad. You steal. And your clothes don't fit, not mention, your hair is ugly. And you momma wears combat boots. And you're a racist.

See how quickly I learn the debate game. I went to Wharton School of Finance.

--Finally, here's the best solution I've seen to resolve the national debt. Then we can make Mexico the 52nd state, after Puerto Rico becomes the 51st and we can take over their debt. It would be racist and nationalistic not to.

400SOAve, either the whole world is confused or you are. You started this thread and complained about the Church. Merge showed you --- 3 times --- that your own source contradicted your hypothesis. Later your own source cited the billions that illegal immigrants pay the US in taxes (state and FICA). IMHO your posts are mercurial, which is bad enough, but IMHO I don't see their cogency. If you have a specific point or two to make, please just state them, and preferably without the histrionics.