Confederate Flag no more

[HALL85]

Any blame for the South's evil lie on northern merchants and leading families who got filthy rich by bringing the slaves to the US? Or are we going to ignore the northern elites who helped supply the slaves?

If some knew New Jersey’s history with regards to slavery they might be surprised.

 

[Seton75]

Slavery was supposedly stopped on the early 1800s in the north, but in actuality stayed around for a few more decades in some form or another as I remember. NJ was a huge Klan state in the early 20th century. In I assume the 30s, my Dad and his pals threw tomatoes at the Klan marching down Sylvania Ave in Neptune City, protesting against Catholics...Jews and Blacks not a factor in their hate yet in that area.

knies attacks "Northern elite" slave traders but seems pretty cozy with the southern citizens who bought them. I wonder what cretins made a living in the slave trade, where they were from?

 

[Pirata]

The South lost the war. The flag should have went away then.

I completely agree.

However, if you study the war's end and the reconstruction you can find some things that contributed to that not happening.

If you read the account of Lee's surrender to Grant you see Grant made some on the spot decisions that caused immediate healing of the Union. He agreed to Lee's request to allow the rebels to keep their personally owned guns and horses. The rationale was they needed to return home and be able to hunt and plant crops to feed their families. Grant also fed and clothed the defeated army and allowed them their dignity. He allowed no celebration by the Northern soldiers nor any mistreatment , verbal or physical. Grant was subsequently revered in the South (Unlike Sherman). In hindsight, Grant should have negotiated the flag issue at that time.

If you read further about the Reconstruction, you see the South was is a dire situation. Its economy was devastated as was its infrastructure and a host of other problems. There was big push to try the generals for treason which created big riffs at the federal level. Again, Grant headed off big problems by pardoning Lee and others.

I suspect the thought was that they had bigger fish to fry than worry about the flag. Again, in hindsight they should have nipped the flag and the statutes in the bud early on.

If you have read Machiavelli's "The Prince", he devotes a decent bit to what we now call winning hearts and minds. It is also known as "not just winning the war, but winning the peace". I suspect the North let the flag thing slide in the interest of trying to win the peace by allowing the South to retain its honor and pride. Again, in hindsight it was a big mistake.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

Slavery was supposedly stopped on the early 1800s in the north, but in actuality stayed around for a few more decades in some form or another as I remember. NJ was a huge Klan state in the early 20th century. In I assume the 30s, my Dad and his pals threw tomatoes at the Klan marching down Sylvania Ave in Neptune City, protesting against Catholics...Jews and Blacks not a factor in their hate yet in that area.

knies attacks "Northern elite" slave traders but seems pretty cozy with the southern citizens who bought them. I wonder what cretins made a living in the slave trade, where they were from?

Yes learn some history, then get back to me. Do you think it was all southerners doing the slave trading?

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

And it was started by the moderator

You can always scroll on by. No one is forcing you to read the thread.

 

[sami]

Just throwing this out there...

 

[HallLine69]

The problem with cancel culture is that there is no satisfaction. While this was a good and appropriate decision, no one will be satisfied with this. It should have been done years ago before it served to be more fuel to the current fire. Our country and its history are under attack. And while this is an easy case to side with what I feel is the appropriate side, many of the demands and actions going on are not, IMO.

The American Flag will come under fire next, mark my words on that one.

Absurd.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

Absurd.

So you support cancel culture?

 

[cernjSHU]

I'm not going to judge a man for doing something that was accepted at the time, which was owning slaves. I do know that the people who enlisted from the south and north had brass balls. You people realize there were slaves in the northern states as well right? NJ had slaves until 1865, so they're as bad as the south. We can all agree in our modern world there is no place for slavery, yet it still happens in Africa and

You conflate two thoughts. One, I agree you can’t judge a person based upon what we now find abhorrent but at the time was acceptable practice. You can’t do that with George Washington or Thomas Jefferson or Columbus or the Romans or the Egyptians or the countless of other civilizations that engaged in slavery.

However, do not mix that up with the idea of the confederacy because slavery was legal. The confederacy were traitors to this country period. By that time in history, it was well known the wrongness of slavery. That is the difference. They lost and the north won. Perhaps the advice of General Robert E Lee should be followed:

“I think it wiser not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the example of other nations who endeavor to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered.”

“As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated, my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the country would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment, and of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour,”

 

[radecicco]

Any blame for the South's evil lie on northern merchants and leading families who got filthy rich by bringing the slaves to the US? Or are we going to ignore the northern elites who helped supply the slaves?

OMG. As if you are revealing info that no one knows. Everybody knows this. This is a straw dog comment and has no relevance to the original point.
The guy said not all slave owners were horrible and abusive. That statement is not defendable in any rational or serious way.

 

[HallLine69]

So you support cancel culture?

I have no idea what 'cancel culture' means. I just don't agree with the post saying the next thing to be attacked will be the American flag.

 

[Seton75]

Yes learn some history, then get back to me. Do you think it was all southerners doing the slave trading?

I have no idea. Tell me.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

I have no idea. Tell me.

Use Google, although they're in the business of controlling what users can find now.