I like the honesty.I like Jerrys communications but you have to understand that he's a SHU homer so have to dial down the glowing attributes.
Do you agree with Jerry C?
- Thread starter Halldan1
- Start date
I honestly enjoy your posts but man, it's incredible how you find a way to weave something about St. John's into everything LOL.
I agree. 11-8 should garner him BECOY. Frankly, he should get it for being one of the few coaches to play by the rules. Home games are gold.
No, just no. Especially when there's someone in this league who was picked in the bottom half and coaches a 24-4 (14-3) team.
Sorry you have to look at the accomplishments for last 6 years. He inherited a dumpster fire. Those Gonzo players had talents but they had a slew of personal issues. Serious issues. Point me to a program with the crap we had that was turned around any quicker or with better results. Name one.Maybe you should have used a better example???
In all seriousness, 12 years, 4 tourney appearances (1-4 record), 1 BET, 1 shared BE title. This requires blind loyalty?
Your post above certainly limits the number of people normal citizens can criticize.
The slump every year is a legitimate gripe whether you agree or not. Some guys here are not gonna like Willard if he wins the NC. Most here are very happy he is our coach.
When that article quoting Wright saying KW should be a candidate for bigger jobs was written, and others I think correctly advised me that Wright would not say they w/o KW approval, that pissed me off, and if true, never appropriate for a coach to have others lobby for him while his team is fighting for their lives.
I have also said here countless times I hope he is the last SH coach I see. But the offense still stinks, and we play mediocre ball way too frequently.
One thing you cannot deny, when we look down, he gets us back up and winning again (last year the only exception I can think of). IMO, that is because the players like and trust him. Which is why I hope he is here till I check out, even with the issues I may have with him.
And, I think we are generally tough as hell.
I don’t bar criticism of KW. I just think to ignore what he inherited and to measure his accomplishments over 12 years isn’t a good metric.
Maybe it's not his best year...but a darn good one. That's what matters to me.
Damn good is a bit high I would say this is a classic Kevin Willard season.
KW gets way too much credit! My wife who knows very little about hoops would have made the same changes KW made. What he did was a no brainer. Harris and Jackson who were the best 3 point shooters left on the bench had to play with a team that was suffering from poor 3 point shooting! It's not rocket science!
The question to ask is why he lets Yetna and Samuel hoist up 3's? That should be stopped asap! Maybe they take them in practice and make them but they are not making them in games!
The question to ask is why he lets Yetna and Samuel hoist up 3's? That should be stopped asap! Maybe they take them in practice and make them but they are not making them in games!
if so, and I agree, 19-20 wins (maybe more this year?), always in the mix for an NCAA bid, usually making a run in the BET.
I bet there are about 30 other high majors who would sign up for that in a minute.
Sorry, I thought Willard has been here for 12 years not 6. You want to start when he gave Tiny a job. That's just not realistic.
Seton Hall was not as rock bottom on the court when Gonzalez got fired as people like to remember it. They were 19-12 before the NIT loss, 9-9 in BE play and, that year, were 0-4 in games that went to OT. It's a different story completely if they win 1 or 2 of those games.
Off the court was a different story. Can't argue that point.
There's an argument to be made that the administration (and fans) were more harsh with Louis Orr than deserved as well. Hell, you could say PJ had a worse on court issue than Willard did when he got here. Go take a look at that roster. Outside of Andre McCloud, that was one thin roster.
Willard is a good coach. Don't canonized him without cause.
Gonzo had a group of players you’d basically want nothing to do with. We were a dumpster fire with aau and HS coaches and families. It’s wrong to think the record speaks for the state of the program he inherited. Gonzo’s final sports center highlight was Pope’s nut sack blows. I’d say that was as good a metaphor for the state of Seton Hall BBall as any.
Ok, let's play this game.
Herb Pope? The guys that Willard speaks glowingly about?
Hazell? Theodore? Harvey? Garcia? Gause? Laing? Nutter?
All guys that were on this team.
Pope, Lawrence and Mitchell (later on) had off court issues but you are painting with a broad brush my friend.
And it's not like Willard's tenure has been spotless. You have Sina walk out of the arena without returning to the locker room (too bad camera phones weren't more prevalent) , Gibbs dropping an elbow and Archidiancano, Javon Thomas choking and intramurals ref (INTRAMURAL!!!), everyone's favorite Ish getting tossed off the team and then reinstated as examples.
And you want to talk AAU and HS coaches, Willard gives Tiny Morton a job to land IW and we know how that year went.
Again, Willard is a good coach, but stop canonizing him. At least Rothstein is trying to sell t-shirts when he does it.
The 3 you mention are bad enough for a millennium. And Willard dismissed a couple of others. Sina? His father was the culprit there. Jordan? Decent point guard but a total free agent on the court. Not subject to coaching. Gibbs? I’ll give you him but I think most observers would call that out of character. Tiny? So it didn’t work out. But it secured IW and that jump started the revival.
Lastly, I’m not canonizing him. Just calling for a fair appraisal. Don’t know your age but imagine you would have had the torches out to get rid of PJ back when.
I was embarrassed to be a fan of Seton Hall with the actions of the 3 you mentioned and Gibbs. and I’m glad to say I’m no longer embarrassed. We’re relevant. Free of scandal. Those two things give KW a huge reservoir of good will. As such I don’t need to expend my energy documenting his weaknesses. He ain’t perfect and I never said he was. But he’s more than good enough.
lol no the comeback in feb was vs all bottom half teams essentially. if a month of losing goes into a best coaching job ever then we got a problem.
trying to think what coach didnt have a setback this year. i guess the answer to that is cooley. he ducked his setbacks.
trying to think what coach didnt have a setback this year. i guess the answer to that is cooley. he ducked his setbacks.
Willard did a good job this year but 2016, 2019 and 2020 were better. However he did overcome a lot. Other teams have dealt with similar issues but, Curbello has returned for Illinois, Moore and Gillespie have recovered from their injuries for Nova, Sanogo has returned for UCONN, to cite a few examples. Aiken, our transcendent player, has not returned for SHU. And we’re going to make the Dance anyway.
Pope and Mitchell's real transgressions were committed after they were gone from team (and remember Gonzo got rid of Mitchell). Keon got a DUI during his time at school and was removed. Notwithstanding your embarrassment, lots of programs go through this. Ask UConn about Tate George or Michigan with Rumeal Robinson.
In spite of your opinions of Theodore, Gibbs, et al., none of them were bad kids with bad attitudes.
And your attitude on the Tiny hiring is hugely hypocritical. So, if it worked out, it would have been ok having AAU/HS entourages around.
I think my appraisal was totally fair. I'll say it again. Willard is a good coach.
He's taken us to 4 NCAAs in the previous 10 seasons (not counting the year that the tourney was cancelled).
But, I'm not building statues for a guy whose ceiling is normally 3rd place. I'm also recognizing that his leash was a lot longer than Louis Orr's was. Additionally, if Gonzo splits those OT games in his last year, making them 21-10 and probably getting a bid, does he even get fired?
Geez, with a fan like you…. I listen to your podcast and really enjoy it but you must be the guy who always looks for the dark side. Too be clear, 2016, 2019, 2020 were better. Other teams had problems but SHU lost its best player and he has not returned, unlike others. We went 1-0 vs UCONN with Aiken. We did beat Creighton and X (twice) when we needed wins. (I know X has really cratered but we helped them crater.). So despite everything, we’re headed back to the dance and that’s all that matters.
Louis had his own issues. Firing him was one thing. Who they replaced him with was another.
That was also when we were still delusional to think we belonged in deep runs in the tourney while being grossly out spent by almost everyone.
You romanticize the Gonzo personnel. They were not good reps of the University. Sherhan said it best to the effect, Athletics doesn’t exist to besmirch the reputation of the university.
And I don’t care what scandals befell other schools. And you named two that were hardly bastions of virtue.
And I’m not building statutes to Willard. I know the things he hasn’t accomplished. But much as I judge most things I’m interested in the last 6 years. Not the 6 before that.
Remember to never let perfect be the enemy of the good.
I can also do a whole entire post on why Kevin Willard did a good job this year and why I am proud and excited to be a Pirate fan heading into March.
And on our show when the season comes to a close we will definitely do our best to show both sides of the argument.
For those reading my previous post, it was not a fire Willard referendum or that I wish he takes another job. It was more a direct criticism of Jerry Carino and how his opinion on the performance was overinflated. He claims it was his BEST coaching job and sites facts that are essentially stretching the truth or are just not accurate. So I pointed out why I felt he was erroneous.
I truly believe Willard did a good job getting us back to the dance, but I DO NOT think it was his best performance as a you have agreed in your response also
Especially when we still have many areas that the program can still grow and improve upon. And Kevin needs to be honest with himself and understand that even though he is a good coach he can still adjust and grow and become an even better coach.
I am happy with where the program is at, but I always want to see us strive to continue to get better. The way Jerry wrote the article you would have thought we won the regular season title like Providence did.
your last sentence said we are going back to the dance and that is all that matters. If that was the standard for Willard’s best year than I would agree, but it’s not. Can’t we all just agree to say good job, but not great job at this moment in time?
Besmirching the reputation of the school? You need to look into some of the donors that allowed the school to build the library and some other buildings.
You can have your opinions on UConn and Michigan all you want but no one's hands are totally clean. My point was that both have examples of important players leaving the program and then having issues later on. This happens.
I'm not romanticizing anyone. These teams were primarily composed of good kids. You had bad apples and obviously a bad leader at the top (who probably would have kept his job with 2 more wins that year). I'm simply saying that the narrative has been built up over the years that no one was excited about Gonzo and we were near SMU-like levels of scandal upon his exit. Neither are true.
You’re now inventing narratives that haven’t shown up in this dialogue. SMU level? Where and when was that said. And no, Gonzo’s final team was not filled with good kids.
What happened in Gonzo’s final game was as low a point as we’ve had since point shaving.
You have you’re view and I have mine. Perhaps we agree KW=good coach. Our differences arise in how much energy to spend highlighting his deficiencies. I’m with glass half full. Makes life more fun.
I stand by my view. The team had some issues (Pope, Mitchell, Lawrence). Hazell, Theodore, Robinson, Harvey, Garcia. These are good kids. They never brought shame to the program.
And yes, we do agree Willard is a good coach. How good? Well, that's where we should leave it...
I do see the glass as half full... I just love figuring out how we could fill the rest of it...
Harvey and Davis (you didn’t mention him) both good. Hazel, Robinson not so much. Again, not about talent but character. Garcia was an Orr recruit if I’m. not mistaken. And Big John was a solid guy.I stand by my view. The team had some issues (Pope, Mitchell, Lawrence). Hazell, Theodore, Robinson, Harvey, Garcia. These are good kids. They never brought shame to the program.
And yes, we do agree Willard is a good coach. How good? Well, that's where we should leave it...
I do see the glass as half full... I just love figuring out how we could fill the rest of it...
I’m half with you and half with it’s just that we play to the level of our competition-good or bad. 1-6 and we are in all the games. Just don’t get over the hump why? Idk
LCP dropping the gauntlet on Carinos article. Using evidence to do so. BOOM 💥
Can't use losing Aiken as an excuse since we all knew his injury history coming into the year was a major red flag. With that said, I'd much prefer a Carino slant than a Politi or Luicci hit piece.
No one wants a hit piece with an agenda.
However, I am actually a big fan of Zach Braziller and the work that he does covering both St. John’s and Seton Hall. I understand he is predominantly a SJU guy, but even when he writes an article covering them it’s as down the middle as you get.
He recently did a respectable and fair job of holding Mike Anderson accountable for nonsensical post game comments on player usage and strategy, while also pointing out that the team has fallen short of expectations. He isn’t asking for the head of Mike Anderson in a down year, but still writes what the trained eye is observing on the court themselves.
Seton Hall had a lights out shooting game vs Xavier with Kadary facilitating ball movement out of the post. I have yet to see any resemblance of that in the DePaul, Butler, and Georgetown games. To be told by Jerry that we are now running offense and that there is an emphasis on screens and ball movement is insulting. Jared went 6-17 last game predominantly reverting back to ISO ball again.
if they play the way they did @ Xavier they can hang with anyone. Most teams would shooting 52% from the floor. But if they play the way they did in the other recent games they will be bounced in the first round.
I don’t disagree with any of this. He did a better job in other years as everyone has noted. But he like others had obstacles this season and he got the team back on track. We all want more. My general point is that KW has gotten the program to a fairly consistent top 25-35 level over these past seven years. That should not be overlooked. Obviously the next step is more NCAA success.
Nembhard played when we played Creighton, Daniels only missed the 1st game when we had only 7 roster players.
