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Does Newark Archdiocese Take SHU Money?

4

400SOAVE

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Jan 24, 2009
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Can anybody please verify if The Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Newark takes money from Seton Hall University?



I know that Jerry Carino has hinted this in a couple of columns over the years. And now somebody mentioned it in another thread.



Is it true?



I'd like to know because I graduated from SHU and I donate money to SHU. I'm an SHU men's and women's basketball season ticket holder. I did not graduate from the Archdiocese of Newark, and I don't expect any portion of the money I donate to go to Newark unless I'm explicitly asked.
 
It was me. Besides the Carino articles, EVERY Parish in the Archdiocese is obligated to pay a tax to the Archdiocese of Newark.

There is no reason to believe that SHU is not also taxed the same way.
 
I think it would help the archdiocese tremendously if the current archbishop stepped own or was transferred. Getting someone in there who didn't want to relocate/hide pedophiles to local parishes would be nice. It would also be great if for once whoever the archbishop was fully supported and promoted Seton Hall!
 
Originally posted by SHUisNJsTeam:

It would also be great if for once whoever the archbishop was fully supported and promoted Seton Hall!
Click to expand...
Yes that certainly would be a nice idea. But this is New Jersey so don't count on it since all too often these appointments are given to out of staters who know zero about Seton Hall and care even less..
 
The answer is no re money to the AB.. The AB supports the school by assigning 44 priests to SHU.
 
My understanding when I was on campus was that having the seminary on campus was a plus financially - not a negative.

This post was edited on 7/26 9:20 AM by The SHUttle
 
The Archdiocese gets absolutely nothing from SHU. Anyone with half a brain knows that. Only somebody with an animus against the Church would raise such a question.
 
Originally posted by catholicman:
The Archdiocese gets absolutely nothing from SHU. Anyone with half a brain knows that. Only somebody with an animus against the Church would raise such a question.
Click to expand...
Catholicman reppin the church!
 
You are incorrect Catholicman. Seton Hall certainly does pay Newark. They have since their incorporation in 1856. It is not called a tax; it is called a contribution. I spent a great deal of time several years back trying to discern what it was. I never got an answer even though I put everything in writing. The information is well protected much like the pedophile priests that Meyers continues to hide and protect. The latest one, Lopez, is on the front page of The Record today.
 
Muggsy, You reveal that "animus" against the Church I was referring to earlier by bringing up something unrelated. For example, if people are having a conversation about state funding for public school education and then one bring up the fact that a disproportionate number of teachers have sexually abused students, it would reveal an agenda on the part of the latter.
 
I don't have any animus against the Church,it's the reason I went to SHU for 3 degrees.However I think we are the only school in the country that is run by an Archdiocese.Many Catholic Universities have flourished over the last 50 years and we at best have tread water.After WW II SHU was bursting at the seams and a comparable school in Indiana was on the verge of bankruptcy.Look at Villanova,Georgetown,Marquette,St Louis,and Creighton would be pretty nice to have their endowments.
Notre Dame flourished because of a great football program but a visionary leader like Father Hesburgh in the 60's took over and we all know the rest of the story.
In my opinion SHU has been hampered being under the direction of "Newark".
 
Agree Stone, hampered, very hampered.

Catholicman, the pedophile priests had already been introduced earlier in the post. I can't take the initial credit.
 
Based on the answers so far, we don't know. I wish somebody from the SHU and the Archdiocese would go on the record and make a definitive and public statement.

catholicman, I don't think Jerry Carino would mention the subject if he did not have reliable sources.

I'm Catholic. The Catholic church has earned our distrust. You know the expression: Where there's smoke...

I would hope that alumni would take a stand and demand an answer from both institutions. They're always asking for money. Clarifying what happens to that money (and tution and room and board) is the least they can do.

SHU and and the Newark Archdiocese should answer this one simple question: Does the Catholic Archdiocese of Newark or any entity associated with them take any money from any part of Seton Hall Univeristy?

This post was edited on 7/26 2:06 PM by 400SOAVE
 
NO, we can't get along when jerks like Catholicman accuse others of having half a brain when he is the one who is incorrect. He probably defended the relocation of pedophiles and still thinks the church is innocent. Tax/contribution, I don't care what you call it, SHU does send money to Newark. All parishes do, why not SHU?
 
The one thing about CatholicMan is that he does not name call, he proves his points respectfully. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion no matter how stern it is no reason for the name calling we are not 12.
 
Originally posted by catholicman:
The Archdiocese gets absolutely nothing from SHU. Anyone with half a brain knows that. Only somebody with an animus against the Church would raise such a question.
Click to expand...
Even if Seton Hall doesn't send a contribution to the archdiocese, I would assume that as operators of the school, they get a portion of tuition dollars and other revenue items. For example, the Jesuits get a portion of tuition to Marquette and the State of New Jersey gets a portion of the tuition to Rutgers, so it would make sense that the archdiocese would get a portion of tuition. Seton Hall is not an independent entity.
 
I think it is the State of New Jersey, the taxpayer, that supports RU. I'm interested in where you got your information on Marquette.
 
Originally posted by jcalz88:

The one thing about CatholicMan is that he does not name call, he proves his points respectfully. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion no matter how stern it is no reason for the name calling we are not 12.
Click to expand...
So you think saying those who disagree with him have "half a brain" is not name calling? If anyone here has an agenda it is Catholicman who seemingly will defend the Catholic Church no matter what they do.
 
Originally posted by Muggsy Blue:
I think it is the State of New Jersey, the taxpayer, that supports RU. I'm interested in where you got your information on Marquette.
Click to expand...
A friend of mine is an administrator at a Jesuit high school. He got hired as an administrator there because while he was a teacher at a different Jesuit high school, he traveled the country to various Jesuit high schools and universities doing demonstrations on a technology in learning program he helped develop. He wasn't flying around on his dime or his employer's dime. The Jesuits were paying for his travels and for the iPads and apps he was using. What's the Jesuits' biggest source of income? Tuition, especially at the universities. If the Jesuits didn't have funding from the university tuition, there is no way the Jesuit high schools in the U.S. as a whole would be self-sustainable. I used Marquette in my example because I've had multiple family members graduate from there.

Rutgers, just like any other state school, is ultimately run by a state board. The board's primary responsibility is allocating money, especially tuition dollars and fees. If what you said is true and the state doesn't get any money from Rutgers tuition and they are taxpayer funded, then why even charge tuition? With tuition, whoever is operating the school is going to get a piece of it.
 
Per Wikipedia, of the 244 Catholic Universities/Colleges in the US, only 9 are diocesan run, they are listed below:


Carroll College (Helena, MT), Official Site Diocese of Helena, Montana
Catholic Distance University (Hamilton, VA), Official Site Diocese of Arlington
Donnelly College (Kansas City, KS), [1] Archdiocese of Kansas City in Kansas
Gannon University (Erie, PA), Official Site Diocese of Erie
Loras College (Dubuque, IA), Official Site Archdiocese of Dubuque
Mount St. Mary's University (Emmitsburg, MD) Official Site
Sacred Heart University (Fairfield, CT)
St. Ambrose University (Davenport, IA) Official Site Diocese of Davenport
St. Thomas University (Miami, FL) Official Site Archdiocese of Miami
Seton Hall University (South Orange, NJ), Archdiocese of Newark
Thomas More College (Crestview Hills, KY) Official Site
University of Dallas (Dallas, TX), Official Site Diocese of Dallas
University of St. Thomas (St. Paul, MN), Official Site Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis

Catholic Universities
 
Catholicman, I'm certain you know someone in authority at the Diocese. Get a statement that they do not receive funds, from SHU, in any fashion. Come on. Let's see you support your statement with facts.
 
Whenever some of you guys are bored, you take swipes at the Catholic Church.

Pirate6711, I seriously disagree with you that the religious orders find their greatest source of income from the tuition at the schools they own/run. Most of the big religious orders in the U.S. have decent sized endowments that resulted from a high level of giving by Catholics in the 50's and 60's. The money was invested wisely and made more money. Also, properties which were either donated to particular religious orders for such things as seminaries and retreat houses or purchased when land cost much less, were then sold for big profits in recent years. Some orders sold their hospitals and made a handsome profit. So each school run by religious orders runs pretty much as an independent entity with its own operating budget.The only way the orders receive money from their institutions is usually from the salaries earned by their priests, brothers, sisters from working at them, a decent portion of which, depending on the order, is given back to the order.

So the example you gave of the adminstrator from a Jesuit high school spending money conducting his learning program at various Jesuit high schools probably wasn't receiving money for that from the order but directly from the schools he was presenting the program to or from the school that hired him. (Jesuits, by the way, are great fund raisers.)

Regarding diocesan-run apostolates, each is seen as a charitable endeavor by the Church and with its own independent operating budget. It doesn't make sense to me that a diocese would see any of its charitable or educational endeavors as something to gain revenue from. Perhaps, if a diocese is providing certain services to the institution, for example by allowing a college or university's employees to be part of its health insurance group, then perhaps a contribution would be expected to offset that. The Archdiocese of Newark, when it needs money, draws it from the Archbishops's Annual Appeal. In recent years, some dioceses have had to go beyond the bishop's appeal and have had to levy a tithe on each parish to pay for such things as repairs to their Cathedral, etc.

Someone above, accused me of always defending the Church no matter what. I love the Church and believe it is of Divine origin, founded by Christ himself. But the Church is also composed of humans who are sinners. So I am fully aware that there is sin in the Church. (I have suffered much persecution myself within the household of the Church.)

But, let's be intellectually honest with ourselves here. The people on this thread who raised the issue are doing so because they have an animus against the Church. The people who are unhappy that the Archdiocese owns SHU and think that has held it back need to be honest that they hate the Catholic Church and the Holy See. The Jesuits are cool to you guys because they are seen as dissenting from the Church.


Just be honest with that and move the discussion to LIFE OFF THE SHIP. Whenever we get anywhere with such discussions on this basketball board, the administrators lock it. They should never allow it to begin with if they don't have the intestinal fortitude to let it run its course. In any case, I don't feel like I can have a good discussion on these topics here because I perceive so much hatred.
 
Well here are some questions, who pays the salary/stipend of the priests, brothers and nuns that work and/or reside on campus? The school, the diocese or their individual orders? Also, seminareans, do they pay tuition and room/board? If they do, do they pay themselves or does the Archdiocese pay? Plus what order services/staff/etc... do the university and dioceses share? Obviously, since the diocese founded the school, I assume they own the campus land.

Do other religious affiliated schools pay contributions to there founding/affiliated orders?

I think it comes to how much actual money is given to the the diocese, and what exactly the school does or does not get for that money. I could see the university giving something to the diocese, but if it was a significant portion of the operating budget I would be surprised (and upset).
 
Catholicman - Thanks for the info. I'm not taking any swipes at the Church in this thread, I'm just saying that as operators of the school, it would make complete sense if a portion of the revenue sources go towards the archdiocese. Like I said before, Seton Hall is not an independent entity; the school is in existence and has grown to what it is now because of the archdiocese.
 
catholicman, you persist in talking about everything except the topic that started this discussion. Are you trying to divert and kill this legitimate discussion about money with this red herring?

When I donate money to institution X, I want to know that the money is not going to institution Y.

Why is that concept so difficult to grasp? I don't want to feel defrauded.

I lose my motivation to write the small checks I send to SHU. I've donated $1,000 in the last year. It's not a huge amount. However, I want to know that my grand is used in South Orange. I don't want to think that donations are siphoned and/or used to make up for money taken from other budgets.
 
400SOAVE +1: Catholicman knows he is wrong and he is desperately trying to kill this valid discussion by discussing anything but the original point. This does not belong "off the ship" as it effects SHU basketball.

Question Catholic man...As you as a Priest should give an honest answer...does SHU contribute to the Bishop's Annual Appeal? How much? How about honest answers to some of our questions above.

By the way, most of us are good Catholics who love the religion but despise the way the church has been run. There maybe hope with our new Pope who rides in a Ford Focus and lives in a humble apartment instead of the baronial mansions and limos usually found in the Vatican.
He may straighten out this church yet.

You are right. There are sinners in the church...WAY too many of them.
 
400SOAVE, I think I have answered your question. If there is any exchange of money between SHU and the Archdiocese, it is probably due to some fair exchange of services. Furthermore, I wouldn't expect it to be of any significance. The Catholic Church is completely non-profit. It started SHU to help educate the young, not to make any profit. Any donation a person makes to SHU, goes entirely to SHU.

Priests, brothers, sisters only get paid by the university if they work for the university.

Regarding seminarians, it depends on the diocese: in some dioceses they pay their tuition through student loans, in others it is partially subsidized by the Archbishops annual appeal, in other dioceses it is a completely free ride but paid by the Archbishop through his own fundraising efforts. You can be sure that neither SHU nor its student body is subsidizing, in any way, the tuition of seminarians.

I would be surprised, if any of the large Catholic Universities contribute anything to the orders that founded them, other than the salaries earned by their religious brothers, priests, and sisters. Perhaps a smaller college, like Felician, run by a small poor order of Franciscan nuns, might take something for the sisters. But even there, I wouldn't be so sure.
 
JIm, I am not trying to kill the discussion. No, to the best of my knowledge, the University does not participate in the Archbishops Annual Appeal. Only parishes do. Perhaps, the campus ministry puts out pledge envelopes in the IC chapel. But I don't think so.
 
Finally, I think SHU was--unfortunately--one of the universities which entered into the so-called Land-o-Lakes agreement. That was a meeting that took place years ago in which the leadership, most of them clergy, of most of the Catholic higher education institutions in the US met and agreed to make their schools mostly autonomous from the Church and the orders that founded them.

The arrangement that followed put these universities under the guidance of lay-run boards, rather than priests or religious. Many of these universities subsequently also systematically got rid the lion's share of the priests from their faculties.

In the last 20 years there have been attempts to mitigate the harmful secularizing effect of the land-o-lakes agreement. Pope John Paul II put out a document entitled Ex Cordia Ecclesia (From the Heart of the Church) which gave guidance on what a Catholic University should be.

In any case, Seton Hall, while under the guidance of the Archbishop of Newark, is quasi independent. If it were under direct governance of the clergy and the Archbishop, things would be very different. But regarding the financial realm, the independent nature of SHU shouldn't be underestimated.
 
Originally posted by jim34238:



Question Catholic man...As you as a Priest should give an honest answer...does SHU contribute to the Bishop's Annual Appeal? How much? How about honest answers to some of our questions above.
Click to expand...
Why do you assume that catholicman is a priest. He obviously knows much about the church, but I've seen nothing to indicate that he is a priest.
 
Jim please show an ounce of class for once in your life. Make your argument without name calling and coming across as what you are calling others. Catholicman and other posters deserve our respect. I'm amazed sometimes that we all went to the same school.
 
SHU does not contribute to the AB. Anyone can get a copy of the school's Form 1090. There are no secrets.
 
SECTION112. Your classy Catholicman hijacked this discussion by saying I had half a brain and that I had an animus against the church. Where I come from those are fighting words and I refuse to come under attack without fighting back. I did not fire the first shot, and I never do. I just respond to attacks on me. I also hold the same amazement as you!
 
Actually the AAA results in money going to SHU as people can elect to direct money to the Seminary.
 
Sorry for having rained on your witch hunt, Jim...
Darkening of the intellect might have been a better phrase than "half a brain"...
tongue.r191677.gif
 
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