Does Newark Archdiocese Take SHU Money?
- Thread starter 400SOAVE
- Start date
What about the rest of the university? Seriously, what benefit is it to Seton Hall to be tied to the Archdiosese? Aside from their support of the seminary what else do they do for us? Being associated with a specific order (Jesuits, Fransicans, etc.) would provide us with priests so that's a wash.
This thread is an embarrassment for all Seton Hall students and alums.
Most of the posts seem to present opinions as facts. Many go off topic with irrelevant ad hominem attacks --- on both posters and the Church. And much of the logic is specious.
Most posters in this thread seem to be ignorant of their alma mater.
Did any of you take logic at SHU? I know it was a required course in 1967, so Jim should have --- albeit with no sure evidence thereof.
IMHO no good Catholic should ever slander the Church as the result of some criminal priests and/or foolish bishops.
To be a Catholic one must believe that the "Church" represents Christ on earth and that the Holy Spirit protects the Church from error in matters of Faith and morals, but in matters of Faith and morals only.
There had been many pedophiles inside the Catholic clergy --- as I expect there were and are among the Catholic laymen and among the entire population. These are all criminals who should be punished to the full extent of the criminal laws now --- and as I trust they shall be under God's law hereafter.
But please remember that statistically--- as a percent of the respective populations ---there have been fewer substantiated child molestations inside the Church than inside almost any other religious organization and/or school /scouting system. As we all know, we ALL are sinners, but some have more grievous sins than others.
One should not condemn the US Presidency as an institution just because of the horrible breaches of faith and duty by the Nixons and Clintons who have held the office.
One should not abandon democracy because of the poor choices that the populace has occasionally made to our detriment.
A beauty of these forums is that anyone may post his opinion.
A drawback of these forums is that no one need use sound logic or accurate facts when expressing such opinions.
400SOAVE's OP asked if SHU gives money to the diocese.
In the 4th response in the thread Hallfan1 answered the question categorically: ''The answer is no re money to the AB.''
However, each of the first three responses made off-topic remarks disparaging the Archbishop, highlighting the past pedophile scandal, and/or claiming that ''out of state'' appointments couldn't care less about SHU --- talk about a non sequitur!
The next three responses asked questions or gave opinions as opinions.
Then in the 8th response Catholicman also answered the question directly: ''The Archdiocese gets absolutely nothing from SHU.''
Catholicman then vented a sore point with the unfortunate choice of words ''anyone with half a brain'', when he probably meant ''anyone who has any experience in a large organization of any kind''. That was his bad, which he later admitted.
Shockingly this thread then endured a series of incorrect "facts" {(e.g. Seton Hall is the ''only school in the country that is run by an Archdiocese''; ''SHU does send money to Newark''; the ''State of New Jersey gets a portion of the tuition (paid) to Rutgers''; ''What's the Jesuits' biggest source of income? Tuition!''} as well as specious reasoning {e.g. ''The Catholic church has earned our distrust''} which goes from the particular to the universal.
One poster in this thread went from certain knowledge that Seton Hall does give money to the Archdiocese, to specious logic that it ''must'' give some, to an inapplicable and inaccurate analogue of Jesuit schools, to his own open doubt, to an explanation that the Diocese controls SHU and made it what it is today! Mind-numbing!
Hypothetically, if you were to own some land with some buildings on it and you were to decide to allow some school to operate thereon, should any student of that school have a right to obviate your ownership rights? If you wanted to charge rent, should you be allowed?
The crux of the OP ---- clearly stated later --- is this: ''When I donate money to institution X, I want to know that the money is not going to institution Y.''
That is a legitimate desire and easily clarified with a question to those collecting such donations as to the ways in which the school may use it.
But no one outside any institution has the "right" to know every single funds flow inside said institution. That is just not a fact of life in corporate America.
I know everyone wants SHU basketball to succeed. They want any donations they make to be well spent. They also want a team of all Americans and a coach destined for the hall of fame, but the latter is not realistic.
IMHO it would be helpful if every poster avoided ad hominem attacks, irrelevant garbage-dumping, and specious reasoning……but then this would not be a basketball forum, I guess.
This post was edited on 7/27 8:32 PM by Old_alum
Most of the posts seem to present opinions as facts. Many go off topic with irrelevant ad hominem attacks --- on both posters and the Church. And much of the logic is specious.
Most posters in this thread seem to be ignorant of their alma mater.
Did any of you take logic at SHU? I know it was a required course in 1967, so Jim should have --- albeit with no sure evidence thereof.
IMHO no good Catholic should ever slander the Church as the result of some criminal priests and/or foolish bishops.
To be a Catholic one must believe that the "Church" represents Christ on earth and that the Holy Spirit protects the Church from error in matters of Faith and morals, but in matters of Faith and morals only.
There had been many pedophiles inside the Catholic clergy --- as I expect there were and are among the Catholic laymen and among the entire population. These are all criminals who should be punished to the full extent of the criminal laws now --- and as I trust they shall be under God's law hereafter.
But please remember that statistically--- as a percent of the respective populations ---there have been fewer substantiated child molestations inside the Church than inside almost any other religious organization and/or school /scouting system. As we all know, we ALL are sinners, but some have more grievous sins than others.
One should not condemn the US Presidency as an institution just because of the horrible breaches of faith and duty by the Nixons and Clintons who have held the office.
One should not abandon democracy because of the poor choices that the populace has occasionally made to our detriment.
A beauty of these forums is that anyone may post his opinion.
A drawback of these forums is that no one need use sound logic or accurate facts when expressing such opinions.
400SOAVE's OP asked if SHU gives money to the diocese.
In the 4th response in the thread Hallfan1 answered the question categorically: ''The answer is no re money to the AB.''
However, each of the first three responses made off-topic remarks disparaging the Archbishop, highlighting the past pedophile scandal, and/or claiming that ''out of state'' appointments couldn't care less about SHU --- talk about a non sequitur!
The next three responses asked questions or gave opinions as opinions.
Then in the 8th response Catholicman also answered the question directly: ''The Archdiocese gets absolutely nothing from SHU.''
Catholicman then vented a sore point with the unfortunate choice of words ''anyone with half a brain'', when he probably meant ''anyone who has any experience in a large organization of any kind''. That was his bad, which he later admitted.
Shockingly this thread then endured a series of incorrect "facts" {(e.g. Seton Hall is the ''only school in the country that is run by an Archdiocese''; ''SHU does send money to Newark''; the ''State of New Jersey gets a portion of the tuition (paid) to Rutgers''; ''What's the Jesuits' biggest source of income? Tuition!''} as well as specious reasoning {e.g. ''The Catholic church has earned our distrust''} which goes from the particular to the universal.
One poster in this thread went from certain knowledge that Seton Hall does give money to the Archdiocese, to specious logic that it ''must'' give some, to an inapplicable and inaccurate analogue of Jesuit schools, to his own open doubt, to an explanation that the Diocese controls SHU and made it what it is today! Mind-numbing!
Hypothetically, if you were to own some land with some buildings on it and you were to decide to allow some school to operate thereon, should any student of that school have a right to obviate your ownership rights? If you wanted to charge rent, should you be allowed?
The crux of the OP ---- clearly stated later --- is this: ''When I donate money to institution X, I want to know that the money is not going to institution Y.''
That is a legitimate desire and easily clarified with a question to those collecting such donations as to the ways in which the school may use it.
But no one outside any institution has the "right" to know every single funds flow inside said institution. That is just not a fact of life in corporate America.
I know everyone wants SHU basketball to succeed. They want any donations they make to be well spent. They also want a team of all Americans and a coach destined for the hall of fame, but the latter is not realistic.
IMHO it would be helpful if every poster avoided ad hominem attacks, irrelevant garbage-dumping, and specious reasoning……but then this would not be a basketball forum, I guess.
This post was edited on 7/27 8:32 PM by Old_alum
This thread has gone way off topic.
The original question was does the Archdiocese take money from Seton Hall out of the tuition paid or donations made. The answer is NO it doesn't. If anything it contributes to the costs of running the University. The question was asked and answered.
From that point on there were questions about whether the Archdicese is beneficial or harmfull to the operation of the school plus alot of name calling etc. All off topic and really not the appropriate place for this discussion as this is a SPORTS MESSAGE BOARD.
Tom K
The original question was does the Archdiocese take money from Seton Hall out of the tuition paid or donations made. The answer is NO it doesn't. If anything it contributes to the costs of running the University. The question was asked and answered.
From that point on there were questions about whether the Archdicese is beneficial or harmfull to the operation of the school plus alot of name calling etc. All off topic and really not the appropriate place for this discussion as this is a SPORTS MESSAGE BOARD.
Tom K
Old _Alum
" I think therefore I am" - thanks for the ad hominem!
Also; talk about a lack of logic: "To be a Catholic one must believe that the "Church" represents Christ on earth and that the Holy Spirit protects the Church from error in matters of Faith and MORALS, but in matters of Faith and MORALS only."
Inquisitions, Magdalene Laundrys, pedophiles, protecting pedophiles, Money laundering, etc. Where is the Holy Spirits' protection from these moral deviations?
This post was edited on 7/28 12:52 AM by jim34238
" I think therefore I am" - thanks for the ad hominem!
Also; talk about a lack of logic: "To be a Catholic one must believe that the "Church" represents Christ on earth and that the Holy Spirit protects the Church from error in matters of Faith and MORALS, but in matters of Faith and MORALS only."
Inquisitions, Magdalene Laundrys, pedophiles, protecting pedophiles, Money laundering, etc. Where is the Holy Spirits' protection from these moral deviations?
This post was edited on 7/28 12:52 AM by jim34238
Jim#'s posts are offensive an uninformed. Here are but a few of the Church's contributions to society: first universities, first hospitals, some of the finest scientists ever, grade school education,etc. The Church was the first significant organization to officially hold women as equals to men (ie, not the Greeks, Romans or Jews).
It is self evident to me that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit as she is the longest surviving institution in human history.As regards members who have violated the Church's teachings, Jesus predicted this and you may recall a former member named Judas who was not a paragon. Jesus also stated that the gates of Hell will never prevail against the Church.
He clearly has no historical perspective. No doubt that there have been many failings of members of the Church beginning with Judas but these failings are dwarfed by the immeasurable contributions by the Church. The pedophile scandal was terrible but the rate of abuse by public school teachers is higher; 99% of Priests are fine men.
This is a basketball board and this is my last post on the topic.
It is self evident to me that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit as she is the longest surviving institution in human history.As regards members who have violated the Church's teachings, Jesus predicted this and you may recall a former member named Judas who was not a paragon. Jesus also stated that the gates of Hell will never prevail against the Church.
He clearly has no historical perspective. No doubt that there have been many failings of members of the Church beginning with Judas but these failings are dwarfed by the immeasurable contributions by the Church. The pedophile scandal was terrible but the rate of abuse by public school teachers is higher; 99% of Priests are fine men.
This is a basketball board and this is my last post on the topic.
HALLFAN1, This post was highjacked by Catholicman who devieated from the original question and brought animus against the church and personal attacks against myself and others, into the discussion.
To respond to your post, the church has NEVER decalred women as equals and NEVER will until there is the first female priest.
In addition, public school teachers have not dedicated their lives to celibacy and God as Pedophile Priests had...and then you had the cover up, which in my opinion was worse than the original crimes which were perpetrated by men who, I believe , were sick. The bishops and others who covered up for them, were not.
To respond to your post, the church has NEVER decalred women as equals and NEVER will until there is the first female priest.
In addition, public school teachers have not dedicated their lives to celibacy and God as Pedophile Priests had...and then you had the cover up, which in my opinion was worse than the original crimes which were perpetrated by men who, I believe , were sick. The bishops and others who covered up for them, were not.
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