Sorry, you don’t get lucky three times. Once yes, maybe twice with the right draw and a first round upset. But you don’t get lucky to the Elite 8.
Fire Sha! Fire Felt! Fire Lyons!
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Here is the rub..this is the ultimate divide between inside and outside…I wouldn’t use the word lucky..but if you ask coaches their opinion they are 3 random games which anything can happen..negating an entire season of work…however as fans at large ZERO people care about a big conference road win in February..it’s all about March
Very similar to baseball…fans get mad when teams flame out in the postseason and front offices view this as Russian roulette and who knows what will happen and too much emphasis is placed on it
I don’t have a right answer but this is the reality
Beating Murray state isn’t an accomplishment. Cal was run out of Kentucky for early tournament losses- not just because of the loss to St. Peter’s. FDU went on to beat Purdue the next year.
I’m not trying to diminish what they did because it was an awesome run and I enjoyed it. But to objectively look at it shows major cracks in the foundation and is not enough “proof” that Sha is cut to have high major success. None of his st Peter’s teams were any good by record, metrics or anything else
Absolutely a fluke. They were a 15 seed for a reason and played like a 3 seed for 3 games. Definition of a fluke.
Probably one that doesn’t come across as a whiny crybaby everytime the camera pans to him and who isn’t acting belligerent on the sidelines like Bobby Gonzalez would help.
One who doesn’t berate his players and throw them under the bus in the media. All would be good starts.
No. Not at all. I want a coach who can act professional and doesn’t have some way
to bring kids down everytime he speaks about them.
Felton’s first start was today. Every coach in America would say something like, “He played well. He really stepped up and gave us what we needed. It wasn’t perfect but I’m proud of what he did today.”
Holloway: “I started him because he practiced this week. And no one else practiced. And he scored but gave up a ton of points.”
This is the stuff I’m talking about. Basic communication 101 type stuff
Ok enough with the lucky or fluky elite 8 run. Give credit where credit should be. There is no in- between. Coaches have plenty to of time before round 1 and the sweet 16–that means Kentucky and Purdue.
He coached very well. He had his players’ confidence.
Right now, his team isn’t listening and there’s a major disconnect. It’s massive. And it’s a disaster. A horrible season both by players and coach.
But I’m willing to bet that with a cohesive team Sha is a very, very good coach.
But this is absolutely a come to Jesus season for him. He needs to let go of his hubris and get shooters. Pay for them.
He needs to separate the “old school” approach and come to the present day landscape.
I think he will.
He coached very well. He had his players’ confidence.
Right now, his team isn’t listening and there’s a major disconnect. It’s massive. And it’s a disaster. A horrible season both by players and coach.
But I’m willing to bet that with a cohesive team Sha is a very, very good coach.
But this is absolutely a come to Jesus season for him. He needs to let go of his hubris and get shooters. Pay for them.
He needs to separate the “old school” approach and come to the present day landscape.
I think he will.
Some people want to get treated like adults.. a coach that does nothing but give cliches gets tired quick. After sitting all year I’m sure Felton appreciates the honesty so he knows what coach is looking for to stay on the court.
Again, you act like these are middle schoolers. Most are well into their 20’s…
The Elite 8 has made his career to date (as a coach).
Preseason where did you have him ranked in our league alone when it comes to Head Coaches? I asked this in another thread because my opinion hasn’t changed based on the first 1//3+ of this season. But I think part of the back and forth here is divergent views on this specific point.
I’ll say it again. Once is a fluke. Many coaches have done that. You don’t get lucky three times in a row.
A very good coach isn’t playing in the NIT last year
I thought you meant this Board. Yes it is embarrassing as are many here.
I'm in the camp that is a fluke and I say that recognizing what a tremendous accomplishment Shaheen (or any coach) taking a team to the Elite Eight is.
Why do I say it's a fluke? If you replicate that scenario 100, 1,000 or 10,000 times, how many times does Sha and St. Peter's win those three games? Hell, how many times does he beat Kentucky, let alone the other two teams. I'd say he'd beat UK no more than 5% of the time and make the Elite Eight run fewer than 1%.
That's nothing against Sha. That's just how improbable the scenario was. And that doesn't even take into account Monmouth was within two points of SPU with under a minute left in the MAAC final.
Sure, let's forget reality and replace it with hypotheticals and personal opinions/guesses. Sorry, imho that is just pointless and dopey.
To all the people blaming other factors (NIL) and excusing Sha, did you watch what I watched today? This is the same coach who claims his teams get better as the year goes on. We’re worse. Way worse. And I’m saying that after losing three buy games. How can you defend this guy? Irrational, unstable, and overly emotional coaching led to today’s and many previous game results. Guy really seems clueless and makes you wonder if the only reason he was successful was because one of the best players to ever come through this program was left here for him (Kadary). We are an embarrassment on every level. This guy said he wouldn’t mess this up. LOLOLOLOL.
Dre Davis probably had more to do with the amount of wins last season.
Bro this isn't like it was in the early 2000s
You think the coach that gives cliche's gets tired quick? The coach who is always upset and can't find anything positive about his players gets tired much quicker.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. There is no loyalty among players to the program. Players are not penalized for moving schools. Players are coddled from the time they are in the 6th grade because they are good at basketball. If you have talent, like Felton clearly does, and you have a coach like this you are asking yourself why are you putting up with this, especially when you are far away from home and you have handlers who are always looking to get you more money. .
You can try and give them a wake up call with tough love, but the vast majority of players are not going to respond. We can actually see it with this team- we are terrible, and despite what the media wants to report because they push the narrative that Shaheen's players work harder than everyone else and he can really teach defense blah blah blah, the reality is that they dont and our defense is very average/poor.
Also, I really doubt Felton is appreciating the honestly because he is probably like 90% of us wondering what he has to do to stay on the court when he is clearly better with the ball than Dual and Wusu, and get's pulled for obscure reasons that all of us who watch can't figure out.
Pre season I would have absolutely put him the middle of the pack at least. He did more with his roster last year than any other coach with the talent level on the team.
This season has been a mitigated disaster, no question.
But to say that this season makes up his entire career is a joke—as much as saying his elite 8 run is his whole career. He’s responsible for both.
His cupboard was left bare when he came in and I believe each of Richmond, Davis and Bediako all had their best seasons under him. Dawes, I don’t know.
But I’m also in the camp that believes Larry Brown was a better coach than Phil Jackson. Jackson was a great assembler of talent and had ability to control egos. He always had the best players.
But he never took a subpar/average team to a higher level. Brown did that repeatedly.
We hammered our previous coach for going 1-5 in the NCAA Tournament, now we're debating the merits of our current coach reaching an Elite Eight in his previous stop. Tough crowd.
Holloway also had 3 consecutive winning seasons at St. Peter's once he built it up going 14-6, 10-8, 14-6. It matched the program's longest stretch of consecutive winning seasons in program history, going back to a 3-season run 30+ years earlier. He just delivered a 13-7 BE season last year at Seton Hall, our 6th-best ever in 45 years.
I did not like our collapse in Year 1, but Richmond got hurt. He's done a terrible job this year. He can't hide from the record. He's going to oversee one of our worst BE seasons ever now. That's not an accident. He needs to adjust. He also makes Willard look like Pitino with the media too. Has to learn and adapt. Danny Hurley evolved at Connecticut, it can be done. I'm not saying we'll become them - we will not - I'm saying the notion of learning from mistakes. Takes humility and what we're doing this year is going to humble everyone because it's terrible and embarrassing.
Holloway also had 3 consecutive winning seasons at St. Peter's once he built it up going 14-6, 10-8, 14-6. It matched the program's longest stretch of consecutive winning seasons in program history, going back to a 3-season run 30+ years earlier. He just delivered a 13-7 BE season last year at Seton Hall, our 6th-best ever in 45 years.
I did not like our collapse in Year 1, but Richmond got hurt. He's done a terrible job this year. He can't hide from the record. He's going to oversee one of our worst BE seasons ever now. That's not an accident. He needs to adjust. He also makes Willard look like Pitino with the media too. Has to learn and adapt. Danny Hurley evolved at Connecticut, it can be done. I'm not saying we'll become them - we will not - I'm saying the notion of learning from mistakes. Takes humility and what we're doing this year is going to humble everyone because it's terrible and embarrassing.
The one line in here that worries me is “takes humility” .. not sure if Sha is able to put his ego and pride away and listen to others for the betterment of the program
Had my issues with Willard but at least he was good at in-game adjustments and player development. What coaching skill has sha demonstrated?
Funny we’re debating whether the Elite 8 was a fluke when Sha has more NCAA wins than last three SHU combined.
PJ didn’t even have an NCAA appearance before he got here but at least calls for his head didn’t happen until his fifth/sixth season. And what if the BOR took that sage advice from the fans?l back then?
PJ didn’t even have an NCAA appearance before he got here but at least calls for his head didn’t happen until his fifth/sixth season. And what if the BOR took that sage advice from the fans?l back then?
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Well they were a 15 seed because that conference had weak metrics as a whole for that season and monmouth should have been the rep. As for the games, they made plays and shot makes better than their opponents for three rounds.
It’s not a fluke..that’s a disrespectful word IMO..it’s theirs and will live on forever and for however long their is an NCAA tournament those highlights will be played which is cool
Here is the problem: it wasn’t our school and therefore does/did nothing for us
Inside perception: it’s 3 single random games; any team can get hot for a weekend (and in this case extra game) that is totally different than a body of work in a season.
Also, if you talk to coaches they look at smaller conferences runs differently…many would say in these weak conferences you get hot and in and anything can happen..that is totally different than getting an at large bid from a better conference and navigating the tournament with pressure and expectations.
Some of that is probably sour grapes..and as fans obviously we view it differently but thats the issue
The old timers couldn’t wait to see Willard go. Now they’re having a hard time admitting they were wrong. Shocker!
Willard had some major problems. Who can forget Takal Molson having plays drawn up to the take the last second three twice in a season?? Funny how Takal would be like the third best player on this team.
However, Willard turned the hall into a perennial top 25 program, now we are cellar dwellers
I’m just generalizing. Of course not everybody feels the same way. My point is most people I’ve met that were here for the PJ years feel as if we deserve to play for national championships and should consistently make the second weekend of the tournament. Very few were happy with making the dance and getting bounced early. Most of the pro-Willard takes were that winning at SHU isn’t easy and the grass isn’t always greener. How’s that Shaheen Holloway grass look right about now? What an embarrassing losing joke we’ve become. My goodness. PJ and Willard needed time to turn it around but they both had something in common— intelligence.
There is no wrong in letting go of Willard at all. We would not be much better.
Willard wilted toward the end of the season. In all but one season SHU collapsed.
There is no more developing players. Last year was the last chance at it—and even that may not be accurate.
I would love—love—to see how KW would be handling a $1.5mm roster. Would love to see how he would have handled all the defections with kids wanting more money.
He has Queen on his roster that is probably near that amount alone. 😂😂
Willard wilted toward the end of the season. In all but one season SHU collapsed.
There is no more developing players. Last year was the last chance at it—and even that may not be accurate.
I would love—love—to see how KW would be handling a $1.5mm roster. Would love to see how he would have handled all the defections with kids wanting more money.
He has Queen on his roster that is probably near that amount alone. 😂😂
Is it possible that we are playing lots of Freshman and sophomores and we really are not as bad as we look? Saint Peter’s was terrible for a couple of years before they became great. They even started out bad the year they went to the final 8. I’m still holding out this year to see if we improve before this year is done. If we lose all these guys next year I will concede we need to go in another direction but for now I’m content knowing we needed to reset with younger guys. The way our guys are playing we probably don’t need to worry about any of them going anywhere next year.
I love to see Willard here too. That we can agree on, lol.
In fact, I would love to see anyone but Sha here. I am so turned off by his coaching style and nauseating media pressers that I can’t stomach to watch him throw his hands over his head, berate his players, or look disgusted on the sideline anymore. A mass roster turnover is not only necessary, but it’s inevitable yet again. Call it NIL or call it coaching. Take your pick.
I’d have more confidence in the younger guys if Sha could draw up ways to get them open. Take Scotty Middleton. Even the announcer said it— catch and shoot! Only Sha doesn’t allow that and said as much when he blasted Coleman in the postgame after his best performance of the season in a loss against Vanderbilt. Shot 4-7 from three but Sha didn’t like that. He has neutered every single one of these players and they’re playing worse now than they were earlier in the season.
Unless your name is Dylan. Then you may do as you please. Or Al-Amir for that matter.
What? No need to blatantly lie just because you hate Sha.
Well, if it’s such a rare feat I would posit that it takes a pretty darn good coach to accomplish it. However, that accomplishment is three years in the rear view mirror. Gotta fix what we have now.
We were consistently ranked. Not always, but that’s why I said he turned us into a perennial top 25 program. It’s very easily proven:
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/15...-seton-hall-into-a-consistent-top-25-program/
A more accurate account would be here (definitely not perennial and some years he was in and out for 1 week):
Seton Hall Men's Basketball AP Poll History | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Check out Seton Hall's Complete College AP Polls History and More About College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
www.sports-reference.com
** edit: Also note the rankings fell from the sky as soon as January hit and the where’s Waldo look kicked in
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