Willard the son of a coach and the apprentice to pitino doesn't make willard a great Coach...he was/is flawed
Fire Sha! Fire Felt! Fire Lyons!
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39 out of 252 weeks (15%) of the time Willard had us ranked in the Top 25. That isn't consistent or perennial.
Is McBride really this bad or is he not being allowed to do what needs to be done?
Right, thats why I said he TURNED US INTO a perrenial top 25 team.
Most people thought Seton Hall was a top 25 program when Shaheen took over because Willard turned into one.
Especially the last few years of his tenure where we ENDED the season rankings (admittedly before the tournament) ranked in the top 25 in 5 of his last 8 years.
And remind me how long did it take Willard to turn his teams in to perennial top 25 teams?
More like ~34% over his final five seasons, which is what the poster and the O'Neil article alluded to. I would not say that is perennial, but it was pretty good for Seton Hall.
I felt Willard had worn out his welcome here so I was happy when he left. I thought Holloway would be a good hire, boy was I wrong. He is a trainwreck of a coach.
Really? After provided the information for you to see?
One season—1 (2020)—in which Willard ended the year in the top 25.
Please stop fabricating the truth to fit your narrative. Lying won’t make Willard better or Sha worse.
(Jamar) nutter for 3: look at the corresponding week no. and ranking and you’ll see he only got into the top 25 past January once:
www.sports-reference.com
Seton Hall Men's Basketball AP Poll History | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Check out Seton Hall's Complete College AP Polls History and More About College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
www.sports-reference.com
(Jamar) nutter for 3: look at the corresponding week no. and ranking and you’ll see he only got into the top 25 past January once:
Seton Hall Men's Basketball AP Poll History | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Check out Seton Hall's Complete College AP Polls History and More About College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Once? The 2020 team was in the top 25 every single week from mid-January through the entire rest of the season. The 2016 team was also ranked in the final poll after winning the BET.
“Middle of the pack at the least” - who then did or do you have him ahead of? Because before I blink there are at least 5 names I am putting above without any thought.
Again my view hasn’t changed one bit and I consider the Elite 8 success because body of work matters.
But that door swings both ways. If you are considering body of work with some of the other names, it becomes a harder exercise.
34% is pretty good for a school with our limitations, IMO. I bet that number expands dramatically if it's viewed from the lens of Top 30 or Top 35, which is still pretty damn good IMO.
And while agree with most of what you said, Willard’s last 5 years — or 12 in total— are 9 more than Sha in total at SHU and the beginning of that 5 year run is 4 more than this.
Do we give Sha that cushion that we gave Willard?
Before this season I would put him ahead of English, Matta, Neptune and probably Holtmann who was trending down before I blink.
I believed Holloway was also trending up (which I think was a consensus opinion).
I don’t believe the past helps a coach this year, so “body of work” is great for argument’s sake but not for on-court results in the current year.
One thing I’d like to know from the Sha dissenters:
Where would Holloway be at 8 or 9 of the other Big East with their budgets, basketball program engagement, etc?
Would he be doing as badly? Hard to know, but I’m willing to guess it’s a “no”
Where would Holloway be at 8 or 9 of the other Big East with their budgets, basketball program engagement, etc?
Would he be doing as badly? Hard to know, but I’m willing to guess it’s a “no”
This is too harsh, I think. He took over a top 50ish kenpom team and basically kept us there for 2 years. This season has been disastrous, but the school also let Shaheen's two best players (two all-league level players) walk out the door before the year started because of money. No other Big East school had that happen.
The past helps evaluate what a coach has accomplished in his career though. You might think someone is clearly trending down because of day health issues (like Matta). But if a guy has won everywhere he’s ever been, it’s definitely part of the equation.
I think a more pertinent question is how would other coaches be doing at SHU. The question is not whether Sha is a good coach, in some abstract sense. It’s whether he’s the best fit for our school.
Okay. I stand corrected. The post above is much more in line.
I was actually referring to this article which laid it out better, but I misread it
Maryland basketball officially announces hire of Kevin Willard
The Kevin Willard era in College Park has officially begun.
Okay so in the last few years of Willard we were in the polls 34% of the time. Maybe if I said we were a somewhat consistent you would be fine. The rest of the time were most definitely just out of it, determined by the fact that we were an 8 or a 9 seed whenever we got to the tournament.
Regardless, we are the laughingstock of college basketball and anyone who doesnt see it has the worlds biggest homer glasses on. The coach we have now is a disaster
Yea but apparently its the end of the world because we were top 30 instead of top 25 lol like I said and like the article from the Athletic mentioned.
We lowered the bar so much around here and the way that the fans talk about our program makes it seem like we should be thankful that any person would come and work here for 2.5 million.
Remind me where we were when he took over? 2 different programs at drastically different points.
I wouldn't. Willard inherited an absolute mess. Sha inherited a program on fairly stable footing. In this new era, you have to act faster than you may have acted in the past.
nope the elite 8 was a fluke, means nothing! and he stunk at st. peter's! bring in billmier!!
so many people on here absolutely hate those stats you just brought up.
yet compare the rosters they were left with. willard inherited an off court mess, but its not like sha came in with a bustling program. willard's exit was a fiasco too.
In a 10x harder league..and had VERY similar first two years as Sha…and now a very similar 3rd year..and no one wanted KW gone more than you…
Sha took over a program that was perennial NCAA tournament team, KW took over a program in a 4 season drought
Both took over impossible jobs
Sha deserves time, but there are crazy red flags (and there were when he was hired btw) he has to figure it out
Should we go over Willard’s first 5 years before he brought in IW and company?Okay. I stand corrected. The post above is much more in line.
I was actually referring to this article which laid it out better, but I misread it
Maryland basketball officially announces hire of Kevin Willard
The Kevin Willard era in College Park has officially begun.maryland.rivals.com
Okay so in the last few years of Willard we were in the polls 34% of the time. Maybe if I said we were a somewhat consistent you would be fine. The rest of the time were most definitely just out of it, determined by the fact that we were an 8 or a 9 seed whenever we got to the tournament.
Regardless, we are the laughingstock of college basketball and anyone who doesnt see it has the worlds biggest homer glasses on. The coach we have now is a disaster
I won’t go into detail, but the 30 games under .500 in Big East conference play should suffice.
Even with the disaster of this season Sha is over .500 in conference play for his career and losing his best two players to higher offers.
Willard never had to deal with that and now mostly won’t ever being at Maryland.
Yeah it sucks this year. It’s uncomfortably brutal.
But I think it’s a needed lesson for Sha on what kinds of players he needs to compete.
Yes, there is personal opinion and hypotheticals.
I also have 40 years of reality where 15 seeds are 16-156 since the advent of the 64-team field. That's a winning percentage of .035.
I don't think I've ever said Shaheen isn't a good coach. I believe he is. I also believe he is overrated because of that Elite Eight run. Just as I've long believed that Shaka Smart was overrated because of that Final Four run. It's only in the past few years that he's started to live up to that accomplishment.
Sha has done a nice job here with what he has. He's gotten a fair amount out of a couple of very good players and some marginal talented guys. There's a lot less talent here this year than the last two.
We're seeing that there are a lot of components to coaching. Someone made the Larry Brown-Phil Jackson comparison earlier in this thread. Coaching isn't only x's and o's. There's talent procurement, talent handling, the ability to think quickly both in on and off court matters and so much more.
Ultimately, having talent matters, it's much more difficult to win without it. It's much harder to get talent when you lack resources. Even more in current college basketball.
I won't say fire Sha as I don't think he's done enough to get fired as of yet. And I'd say it's been more good than bad so far. In his first year I believe he had the most wins as a first year coach in program history if I'm not mistaken. In his 2nd year, he should have been a NCAA tourney team but got snubbed and still ended up winning the NIT which was an amazing run.
However, his excuses after games and his unwillingness to take more accountability and always blaming players, injuries, NIL portal, ect. which are things every program is dealing with as well, shows a lack of leadership on his part and immaturity at times. It's growing old and I'm sure the players will get tired of it too if they haven't already.
He recruited these guys. Say what you want about the NIL and current state of college athletics but we're getting beat by teams that have even less NIL money than us and are worst than BE programs like DePaul who's been one of the worst D1 schools in all of college basketball for a few seasons. Sha has to take some of the responsibility for this. Period.
However, his excuses after games and his unwillingness to take more accountability and always blaming players, injuries, NIL portal, ect. which are things every program is dealing with as well, shows a lack of leadership on his part and immaturity at times. It's growing old and I'm sure the players will get tired of it too if they haven't already.
He recruited these guys. Say what you want about the NIL and current state of college athletics but we're getting beat by teams that have even less NIL money than us and are worst than BE programs like DePaul who's been one of the worst D1 schools in all of college basketball for a few seasons. Sha has to take some of the responsibility for this. Period.
The 2nd paragraph is what has bothered me. Holloway is paid lucratively and yet is having trouble appearing accountable and mature about his team's struggles. I get why this job is hard, but he's the one who chose to take it. He chose this staff, and he chose the players on this team. Other coaches are doing far more with far less; he needs to own that and stop passing the buck. Suck it up, find a way to do the job, or turn in your keys and shut the light off on your way out.
Whining about the players being soft, not having any NIL....nobody wants to hear it. We would tell our children not to behave this way at work, why is it we have to tell our coach the same? Based on his comments, it's pretty clear to me that he's working these kids way too hard, past the point they are willing to go. Whether that's their issue or not, it's certainly his for either bringing people in that won't work the way he wants or for being too obtuse to understand his method doesn't work in this era of college basketball anymore. Since the day he's walked in here, he's complained about the effort everyone is putting forth. He may be right, but nobody wants to hear the boomer mentality anymore. It's likely why Ewing failed and was ultimately shown the door.
And how many of the rest of the college basketball world had beaten those same 2 seeds during the regular season?
There’s also a reason there’s no way a 2 seed should lose to a 15.
So there’s that
Ah, the year before Willard took over the team was 19-13 and 9-9 in the Big East.
Guess that's why Pitino opted out.
For perspective, we were picked 7th in the BE last year, so NIT seemed like the ceiling per the head coaches. But let's diminish 13/24 wins (and the SPU Elite 8 run) because we're petulant children.
A post like this halfway through one horrendous season certainly highlights your lack of the same.
