First Loss of the season
- Thread starter jcalz88
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Forget this board; this team (and coach) is tough to watch.
I wouldn't mind a loss as much as the way they played. Poor defensive effort and results (defense should ALWAYS be there); no semblance of an offensive plan (weave and one-on-one) and your second best player (AD) looks average at best and has appeared to regress from last year. IW is carrying the load.
I love ya big guy but when were you ever around this board when SHU had a good year??
Is it really that surprising given the context of the program? This fan base is seething, especially after last year' debacle. And to go down by 16 to Long Beach by allowing them to shoot 60%+ is not a good look for anyone.
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anon_4htvdezyfe7k9
Guest
Was just about to post the same thing as SPK. Good year? When?
I missed the 2nd half last night, but the Faust kid killed us in the 1st half on some crazy shots that I don't think were necessarily poorly defended. Gordon was in his face for a couple of those long 3s, he just knocked them down anyways.
I'm not a big fan of the negative posts, but they are warranted after losing to LBS after what we endured last year (last 10 years?).
I missed the 2nd half last night, but the Faust kid killed us in the 1st half on some crazy shots that I don't think were necessarily poorly defended. Gordon was in his face for a couple of those long 3s, he just knocked them down anyways.
I'm not a big fan of the negative posts, but they are warranted after losing to LBS after what we endured last year (last 10 years?).
People are not over reacting to one game. Its been 5 years + of the same BS. Even more frustrating is that we actually have the talent this year to do something, and we see the same poor play. Is always the players for 5+ year, or is their another common factor. I would much prefer people to take it out on Willard then fill the board about what each player did wrong, when its Willard's system who is not putting kids in a position to excel offensively or defensively.
Jerry Carino @NJHoopsHaven 2h2 hours agoSeton Hall wakes up today with Bradley instead of Virginia. That's a hangover.
If you have watched the first 3 games, you could see it's not going to be a very good year.
Our Def is bad, really bad. Lots of open 3's and open layups.
We turn the ball over way too much, I don't see this changing.
Our half court is really really bad.
Good teams will have a field day with us.
Our Def is bad, really bad. Lots of open 3's and open layups.
We turn the ball over way too much, I don't see this changing.
Our half court is really really bad.
Good teams will have a field day with us.
Seton Hall wakes up today with Bradley instead of Virginia. That's a hangover.
Another reason for the disappointment. Could've had a crack at one of the top teams in the country.
Here is what I am hoping, we have seen numerous years where a willard SHU team plays well up until the first couple weeks of the conference schedule. Then things get progressively worse and spiral out of control and things fall apart. Maybe this year we start of slow and actually improve going into the middle of big east play??? I have to have some hope here.
Go back to everyone's season win loss prediction... how many people had an L for Long Beach st? Barely anyone and for good reason.
Good point there. I had a W - but I did call for an 8-4 non-conference record at the beginning of October. At this point, instead of getting the 2-1 the hard way (W-L-W), we could get it the easy way (L-W-W).
Heavens forfend we get a 1-2 result - that would unleash the juggernaut, I mean, us, not the team or coaches.
And then the Pirate Ship can be reclassified as a Bathyscaphe. Oh the joys of plumbing the depths shall be had then.
Or put another way - maybe SH is that bad. At least we have the women's program to fall back on thanks to Tony B.
It's time to wake up to the fact that he is a horrible coach. His defensive schemes are too complicated and he needs to adjust to his players, but he is too stubborn to make any adjustments ever. Not on offense, not on defense, Willard way or no way. But after 5 years it's apparent that Willard's way is horrendous and that is not going to change. Every year it is an excuse. I don't have the players, my teams are injured, I have white guys who can't shoot...blah blah blah. Guess what? Last night we had 5 guys out there way more talented, taller, and more athletic...and we still lost. That is on the coach period. I have zero confidence left in this coach. I am done. Freddo Willard broke my heart 5 years in a row. I am not letting him give me hope again just to crush it and take years off my life. I am going to the games. I am going to root for the team. I will be happy and surprised when we win, but I won't let this fraud rip my heart out again.
Rimas, glad you have reached the safe place as well. After the anger, look for the calm.
I had my heart ripped out last season, I got really very angry about it. It took about five months before I let it all go, calmed down, got perspective and all that. Many of us tried last year to actually force change to no avail. It's all about the money not the moral and ethical and rational courage. We do not really count very much in this picture.
The evidence is already in. The conclusion is irrefutable, beyond debate. Willard is an exceptionally bad coach. Whatever he knows circulates inside his head alone.
So - my advice to all fellow travelers is to endure.
Anywho - I'm experiencing a wonderful enjoyable entertaining fall rooting for Tony B's *real* team. I can really say, day in and day out - GO PIRATES.
I had my heart ripped out last season, I got really very angry about it. It took about five months before I let it all go, calmed down, got perspective and all that. Many of us tried last year to actually force change to no avail. It's all about the money not the moral and ethical and rational courage. We do not really count very much in this picture.
The evidence is already in. The conclusion is irrefutable, beyond debate. Willard is an exceptionally bad coach. Whatever he knows circulates inside his head alone.
So - my advice to all fellow travelers is to endure.
Anywho - I'm experiencing a wonderful enjoyable entertaining fall rooting for Tony B's *real* team. I can really say, day in and day out - GO PIRATES.
I think this is just wrong and a little arrogant, Seton Hall has some good players but not as talented as many think.
The damning part of this whole thing is he outwardly admits the team was not focused and not practicing well for 2 days leading up to the game and he obviously was not able to get them focused. Again, this is the problem with this coach.
Agree - the galling thing is the 5 now 6 years of getting much less with less (versus the very desired more with less, leading to more with more). The players are who they are - gaining the best from them is the secret sauce.
All we've got is mayonnaise for a Mornay Sauce price.
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anon_4htvdezyfe7k9
Guest
Without piling on too much, I'm with Rimas. I was at a show during the 2nd half last night and made the mistake of checking the board only to see the posts indicating we had lost this game, and it took about 15 minutes (and another beer) to start enjoying what was otherwise a great concert again. I'll be back for more though. Glutton for punishment.
I must say, being here in Charleston and seeing them in person is a far worse experience than watching them on TV.
The word that keeps coming to mind as I watch them is HAPHAZARD. Offensive scores and defensive deflections or steals are simply accidental. They are not the result of a systematic plan.
After years of defending this coach, I have crossed over as well. What I am confused by is both our players' and our recruits' public statements of respect and gratitude for coach's abilities. Surely they can look around and realize that less talented teams play with far more passion and efficiency.
Derrick Gordan's soft recovery (and loss) of the ball on the baseline following the FT miss at the end turned my stomach, as did our coach's decision to sit back in a soft perimeter defense down 2-3 points and allow LB to take precious seconds off the clock while they were not in the bonus yet.
We needed to foul for two essential reasons: to force inbounds passes under pressure and to make them go to the line. This is elementary. I've never seen a coach choose to be passive in that situation.
The good news? Shrimp and grits in the garden of 82 Queen Saturday night.
The word that keeps coming to mind as I watch them is HAPHAZARD. Offensive scores and defensive deflections or steals are simply accidental. They are not the result of a systematic plan.
After years of defending this coach, I have crossed over as well. What I am confused by is both our players' and our recruits' public statements of respect and gratitude for coach's abilities. Surely they can look around and realize that less talented teams play with far more passion and efficiency.
Derrick Gordan's soft recovery (and loss) of the ball on the baseline following the FT miss at the end turned my stomach, as did our coach's decision to sit back in a soft perimeter defense down 2-3 points and allow LB to take precious seconds off the clock while they were not in the bonus yet.
We needed to foul for two essential reasons: to force inbounds passes under pressure and to make them go to the line. This is elementary. I've never seen a coach choose to be passive in that situation.
The good news? Shrimp and grits in the garden of 82 Queen Saturday night.
I wonder if the first few minutes they thought they had this. Had a shot clock violation first possession and then never really played decent D again until the 7 minute mark. Long Beach State adjusted and we didn't.
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anon_4htvdezyfe7k9
Guest
He actually said this? Without having seen or heard the exact quote, sounds like he threw himself under the bus while trying to throw his players under the bus.
Sadly... I agree.
We just don't have the right roster to compete night in and night out. We will see some flashes where we look good, but it will not be consistent at all. That is all on WIllard for failing to get talent.
I don't want to call anyone out specifically, but we obviously have 3 good players and beyond that have a bunch of role players that haven't been coached well enough to know where they fit in.
Contrary to our own disappointment and general "programmatic dysfunction," a lot of credit should be given to Long Beach State. They played hard. They have some talented, veteran players who were tenacious and fired up. Good for them.
They're off to a good start with wins over BYU and Seton Hall.
They're off to a good start with wins over BYU and Seton Hall.
Boston Blackie, you said "I must say, being here in Charleston and seeing them in person is a far worse experience than watching them on TV".
The little screaming young impatient person inside of me says "ZOMFG".
The large friendly old patient teddybear that I am says "Do tell us more about the restaurants in Charleston".
The little screaming young impatient person inside of me says "ZOMFG".
The large friendly old patient teddybear that I am says "Do tell us more about the restaurants in Charleston".
This was a problematic loss any way you cut it. It was imperative that they could play Virginia to enhance their SOS. Plus how about you go out and beat Virginia with a chance to take the tournament. So in essence this was like a playoff game right off the bat. Now losing o LB State is not a disgrace and if the program was in a normal place then you just rebound and move on. I guess they could win the next 2 and come back to NJ at 4-1 anyway, but it will be a different 4-1.
I never really got too upset while watching this game, normally that would not be the case. In fact my attention was being diverted to the Women's game. I could tell right away that the Men's team did not have that sense of urgency, they looked slow to react on defense and the offense is playground to some extent early in the season.
The season can still go in many directions. If the players play with passion and buy in to a structured team concept they'll win their share of games. It can also be a complete disaster. I'm still hoping and rooting for the possibility that they'll settle into their roles and play to their highest potential.
One last thing is that I just can't understand all of this dribbling. Why don't they pass the ball around and pick their spot to attack the defense??
If we lost after playing our A game, I wouldn't be so disappointed. But we allowed so many easy baskets, it was painful to watch. LB state made some excellent outside shots but this happened because we enabled them to get into a rhythm. In the scrimmage against Penn State and in the exhibition against DIII Baruch, we gave up 12 treys each. Last night, for the first 15 minutes we did not have a hand in anyone's face. By the time we did, they were already shooting unconsciously. One of the basic problems was that, due to the zone, we did not pressure their shooters. Undoubtedly, our scouting report showed that even against inferior competition, LB state had only shot about 30 percent. So, the game plan must have been to let them shoot. That didn't work. To make matters worse, they kept slipping behind our zone and putting in easy baskets down low. One time out early should have solved these problems. After LB state's first time out, the game changed.
What do you man by rebuilding? This program is so moribund that there is not even a foundation let alone a building to rebuild.
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