Georgetown wears 'I Can't Breathe' T-shirts
- Thread starter Halldan1
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Why can't it just be disturbed Americans upset over the inconsistency in the protests? Where is that whimpering little rat bastard Sharpton when hundreds upon hundreds of blacks are killing other blacks every year in Chicago alone? Can we at least wait to protest until someone NOT a known criminal is killed by police?
There is a proper venue for it, and a college athletics game is NOT IT. For one thing, you are the face of the university especially on a nationally televised game day. Whats next, Bill Raftery wearing a "hands up don't shoot" tshirt during the broadcast?
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
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As far as self-expression goes, I have a bigger issue with the idiot who yelled "Rutgers Sucks!" during the national anthem on Saturday then a bunch of kids trying to make a legitimate social statement, whether I agree with them or not.
Now THAT was weak.
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Now THAT was weak.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Athletes, such as the Georgetown basketball team, are representing a group which may or may not hold the same views on this case as they do. These kids can protest on their own time, not as representatives of, in this case, Georgetown University.
The lack of respect for law enforcement and how difficult their job is truly amazes me. These men and women put their lives on the line every single day and have to make split second decisions that not only affect their safety but those around them. I wish everyone calling this "murder" would walk a day in these officers shoes. i am too young to have lived through it but from history I feel like cops today are beginning to be vilified much like soldiers were in during Vietnam. Maybe some of the old guard on the board could agree/disagree with that.
Lest we forget it was not very long ago at all that a former Seton Hall basketball player died in the line of duty as a police officer. If anyone participates in any of these absurd protests while wearing a Seton Hall uniform it will be a LONG time before I ever support Seton Hall in any way again.
Lets see, Hoya paranoia and a university with an uber liberal faculty and the bball team wears the shirts. I'm shocked. What happened in NYC was a tragedy. Maybe when they play in Chicago vs DePaul they'll break out some shirts protesting the murder rate or murders over the weekend in Chicago. Nah, those are black on black murders many involving innocent bystanders.
I really don't feel like getting into it w/the very angry & seemingly very ignorant fist-shakers in this thread, but I will post these here just to refute the Sharpton/black civil rights leader stuff that gets trotted out by the right every time the guy does what he does. Overall I'm not a fan of him b/c too much of what he does is about self-promotion moreso than the actual event/protest/incident etc. But here it is anyway, obtained from a simple Google search:
http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2013/12/the_rev_al_sharpton_town_hall_jobs_key_to_curbing_chicago_violence.html
http://abc7chicago.com/news/civil-rights-group-to-convene-anti-violence-summit-in-chicago/172589/
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/12/black_community_is_concerned_with_black_on_black_crime_suggesting_otherwise.html
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/23742999/al-sharpton-in-chicago-to-address-gun-violence
so there you go. The civil rights leaders you all froth at the mouth about DO go to Chicago, etc to try & deal with the black on black crime, high murder rates, gun violence etc. Just b/c it doesn't get the media coverage that these stories do doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It sucks that shitty outlets like CNN don't deem all the murders in Chicago sexy like these two recent incidents, but they don't.
I also find it curious how those that on one hand lean libertarian/conservative & have a strong distrust of the gov't could at the same time side with the establishment so easily in situations like this. Seems hypocritical. At the very least, I think it's healthier for the country that there are people out there questioning authority & not just accepting how those with power treat the powerless.
http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2013/12/the_rev_al_sharpton_town_hall_jobs_key_to_curbing_chicago_violence.html
http://abc7chicago.com/news/civil-rights-group-to-convene-anti-violence-summit-in-chicago/172589/
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/12/black_community_is_concerned_with_black_on_black_crime_suggesting_otherwise.html
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/23742999/al-sharpton-in-chicago-to-address-gun-violence
so there you go. The civil rights leaders you all froth at the mouth about DO go to Chicago, etc to try & deal with the black on black crime, high murder rates, gun violence etc. Just b/c it doesn't get the media coverage that these stories do doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It sucks that shitty outlets like CNN don't deem all the murders in Chicago sexy like these two recent incidents, but they don't.
I also find it curious how those that on one hand lean libertarian/conservative & have a strong distrust of the gov't could at the same time side with the establishment so easily in situations like this. Seems hypocritical. At the very least, I think it's healthier for the country that there are people out there questioning authority & not just accepting how those with power treat the powerless.
I agree. While I am completely disgusted with how the Ferguson protests have been covered and what has gone on there, I do feel that it is important that people are at least taking notice of what is going on around them. Our society has become blind to the issues that actually matter and the people in charge are continuously using this to their advantage. Now if only people would take notice of the crimes committed in Washington by our elected officials.
In regards to Georgetown, I do not think that it is a college basketball teams place to take a stand on any political issue. Those players are not only representing themselves, but their university, its alumni, and its faculty. If they were to post "I can't breathe" on their Twitter page I would have no issue, but I am against the pregame protest.
While I fully support our police force and those that aim to protect us, you cannot ignore the fact that not every police officer is a good person. Many abuse their power and behave in ways that the average person cannot. With that said, Eric Garner would still be alive had he not committed a crime or resisted arrest. I fully believe that both parties are at fault and that the officer's actions were excessive for the situation at hand.
This post was edited on 12/11 7:06 AM by its haLL baLL
Just because someone thinks what they saw in the video is wrong/a crime, doesn't mean they don't respect cops or realize how difficult their job is. You don't have to choose one position or the other.
I'm fine with what Georgetown did and would have the same feeling if my school did the same. Making a public statement like this doesn't disparage the school or run counter to its values.
I'm fine with what Georgetown did and would have the same feeling if my school did the same. Making a public statement like this doesn't disparage the school or run counter to its values.
Perfectly said. As with most divisive issues in life, this one is not even close to black and white (which is not a reference to skin color, though that it how it has broken down in many cases). Why is it always all or nothing? In so many cases involving violence between the police and the public, almost the entire matter exists in the gray. Rarely is it as cut-and-dried and the public rancor would suggest. Without a doubt, there are police officers who are racist, brutal barbarians; it's the law of averages. There are people in every profession who are racist, brutal barbarians, but their line of work doesn't necessarily lend itself to their exposure as such. If you had a bigoted investment banker with anger issues, odds are that person can work his 10-hour days without those issues ever emerging. But in law enforcement, opportunities arise all the time.
And none of this is even to say that Darrell Wilson or the guy who administered lethal force to Eric Garner are racists, bent on ending the lives of black men. There just isn't anywhere near the information to support that, no matter how well or poorly they executed their duties. None of this is as simple as the loudest voices on both sides would suggest. But the examples of black cops shooting white suspects, or anything like that, aren't really relevant to this. They don't serve to balance the argument, or effectively illustrate that it works both ways. That institutionalized racism is a part of this country's fabric is indisputable, nor is the idea that black people are most often, statistically speaking, cast on the weak side of our power structure. And that is the context in which these incidents are occurring and being discussed. The mirror-image comparisons are simply not valid. (For the record, I view the Michael Brown and Eric Garner cases completely differently than each other, rather than as components of the same monolith).
But to the point of people with a vested interest in the issue, such as young black men, colleges students, calling attention to the issue - even if only to ask people to pause and consider it for a moment - is not something I take exception to. It shouldn't be for anyone.
The guiltiest parties in this whole mess are the media and politicians. I was fortunate to be at a meeting a couple of years ago where Bob Woodward (Washington Post/Watergate) was the keynote speaker and he spoke to this matter. Real investigative reporting and real news (or the content as he stated) are dying. His biggest worry is that big stories will be missed since the news (print and live) are only concerned about sound bytes, ratings, trending and are more biased than ever. There is no effort to be fair and educate the public...they just want to appeal to the most people at the lowest common denominator. The news media has fueled the discord more than Sharpton or anyone.
And show me ONE politician that has stood up and tried to be balance and lead the country to a constructive discussion and dialogue to solve issues that exist. The President has done an awful job....just awful. This could have been his shining moment, but he's failed miserably again. This goes for both sides too. I haven't seen one Republican or Democrat take a courageous stand. Go back and look at the speeches of Kennedy and Johnson during the Civil Rights fight. That's leadership. They care about votes, social media trending, image....sound familiar???
The media and politicians SHOULD be shining the light on real injustice, but they take the easy way out. The bailout of the financial services firms was a great example where both did a remarkable disservice. Remember the concern of having the government support the payment bonuses to people while we were bailing out the firms...The same people that created the mess? The concern was that they might leave the firms and create more issues...how stupid was that? Where was Congress and the Media to stop that? There was some grandstanding but NO ONE stopped it.
Great post. There is no leadership in American politics today. Just a bunch of self-interested career politicians who worry only about getting reelected and staying in power.
and then making sure whenever they are out of office, they have a fat paycheck coming to them from whichever donor lobbying group can find a bullshit consulting position for them as a thank you for their years of service to THEM, not their constituents.
+1 Well said. I'll be honest and say I don't like Georgetown players doing this personally but I can understand it.
If I was the coach and the team came to me and felt strongly about doing this, I would say you can do it once so choose your game and then lets move on and play basketball. I don't think a basketball game is the place to do this but as a player they believe this is their forum where it will get noticed. Same as I hated listening to Bruce Springstein (whose music I love) spew political crap at his concerts. I was there for entertainment and to get away from every day life like I am at our basketball games. Not there to listen to political vitriol and his opinions.
Discussion of these issues is good and within people's rights as long as its respectful and considers all the parties that are involved. Police have a tough job and they should be respected. People should follow the laws if they want a voice because that really helps them make their case. Destroying things and burning down the neighborhood is breaking the law. No matter what the issue that is being debated, those people should be prosecuted and brought to justice but I'm not sure people feel that way today which is sad. Remember your mother saying two rights don't make a wrong?
I think the Ferguson case was totally blown up by the one-sided media coverage and the officer did what he had to do unfortunately. The media did not choose to cover both sides of the story until days after the decision was rendered which is incredible, reckless and disgusting and it definitely contributed to the riots.
The Garner case is another matter and I believe the officers did not do right by him or the community and then did not get him the help he needed in time which was simply awful. Then the prosecutor made it worse by only putting one charge to the grand jury which he knew was going to get the cops off the hook.
I hope the African American community takes this opportunity to ask for better treatment but also to clean up things in their own house too. There is far too much crime in black communities and that scares white and black and all cops alike and definitely affects their judgment and how they carry out their duties. They need help from the community and law enforcement but sometimes their protests are misguided and that is because they have been racially profiled and mistreated. They need a better plan and better leaders than the Sharptons etc.
Maybe its time to bring back stun guns if assailants resist arrest? But if you speak to an officer, during an altercation everything happens very fast and firing your weapon is a decision they have to make instantly and that is tough because many lose their lives when they do not react quickly enough. 72 officers died in the line of duty in 2013 and about 30 died from felons killing them and those numbers are down from the prior year so the risk is real.
There is a saying with police that they would rather be judged by a jury of their peers than by God. When you think about it there are real problems with that saying and it's completely true at the same time. Very tough spot to be in if you are in law enforcement. I'm friends with a lot of cops and they do discuss these issues and understand them far more than you might think. In the 80's when I used to volunteer on the rescue squad I also witnessed and argued with police about pulling over black people because they were in a white zone. I can recall two heated arguments as I watched it occur and our town had a bad reputation. One cop told me I had better not speed in town after that. He became the chief of police in my hometown years later which disgusted me. Thankfully it was only for a few years so I know first hand there are folks in all professions that are not good and he was a jerk and a racist.
Hopefully the police reexamine their approach and try to develop better relationships with the communities they serve which I know they are doing but obviously not very well in all areas. And hopefully those communities also try and work together more with the police that are protecting them every day. Mutual respect is needed on all sides.
Bottom line is this has no place on the court. You put on the uniform you represent something bigger than yourself. You represent a university and the thousands of people who have gone through that university. I am fairly certain that it is not the official position of Georgetown University, and certainly not the position of each and every one of its alumni, that cops are murderers.
I don't care what you're protesting. I don't care what side of whatever issue you're on. This is NOT the place for it. What next? Maybe some players want to wear pro-abortion shirts. That will go over great at our Catholic universities. Protest the death penalty? CIA interrogation techniques? Where does it stop? Protest whatever you want ON YOUR OWN TIME. When you represent nothing more than yourself. Anyone representing my university, wearing my university's uniform, protests ANYTHING I walk out of the arena.
And it is downright hilarious that this new and ridiculous trend of athletes protesting in uniform at the games they play was started by the Rams wide receivers, the ringleader of that inane, absurd hands-up protest nonsense being Kenny Britt. Seriously. Kenny Britt. I'm supposed to take seriously an anti-cop protest led by Kenny Britt? Child, please.
I don't care what you're protesting. I don't care what side of whatever issue you're on. This is NOT the place for it. What next? Maybe some players want to wear pro-abortion shirts. That will go over great at our Catholic universities. Protest the death penalty? CIA interrogation techniques? Where does it stop? Protest whatever you want ON YOUR OWN TIME. When you represent nothing more than yourself. Anyone representing my university, wearing my university's uniform, protests ANYTHING I walk out of the arena.
And it is downright hilarious that this new and ridiculous trend of athletes protesting in uniform at the games they play was started by the Rams wide receivers, the ringleader of that inane, absurd hands-up protest nonsense being Kenny Britt. Seriously. Kenny Britt. I'm supposed to take seriously an anti-cop protest led by Kenny Britt? Child, please.
Why is that? For pointing out a fact? Your post, in my opinion, implied that Kevin Wilkins died at the hands of a criminal.
We white posters have no idea about this issue. I never sat down my sons to tell them how to behave with cops to make sure they don't get the wrong idea. I haven't seen people like me over time be the victim of bad cops.
My dear Mother in Law, grew up in Ireland in the 1920s before she came here, and she never lost her distrust of Great Britain.
My dear Mother in Law, grew up in Ireland in the 1920s before she came here, and she never lost her distrust of Great Britain.
We white, LAW-ABIDING posters have no idea about this issue, and your point is well taken about who sees the police as adversarial or not. However, history is rife with examples of "people like (you)" and bad cops. Bad cops are bad cops.
As for the Irish, they had a big party in June when England lost their World Cup match, so not much has changed!
My parents never sat me and my sister down regarding behaving with police because we had many friends with police officers as parents and my parents knew a lot of police officers. We were fortunate that my parents emphasized treating all adults with respect. But, as with Seton75's situation, we never had any idea about these issues growing up because it wasn't in the forefront of our lives in a middle class, Catholic, mainly white rust belt city.
I don't expect this country to turn into anything close to a utopia, but just having some civility toward each other regardless of race, socioeconomic status, occupation, gender, etc. would be a refreshing step in the right direction. It's unfortunate because, as HALL85 spelled out very well, our political system and our media do not want us to be civil towards each other. You have to be in one camp or the other. It has to be black or white (metaphorically), with no shades of gray. With each passing election and with each news cycle, that mentality just gets stronger and stronger. But in the end, it's up to us to change it. Will enough people step up and stop voting for the divisive puppets? Will enough people stop supporting media outlets that don't even attempt to present facts? What will the tipping point be?
This post was edited on 12/11 1:07 PM by Pirate6711
I don't expect this country to turn into anything close to a utopia, but just having some civility toward each other regardless of race, socioeconomic status, occupation, gender, etc. would be a refreshing step in the right direction. It's unfortunate because, as HALL85 spelled out very well, our political system and our media do not want us to be civil towards each other. You have to be in one camp or the other. It has to be black or white (metaphorically), with no shades of gray. With each passing election and with each news cycle, that mentality just gets stronger and stronger. But in the end, it's up to us to change it. Will enough people step up and stop voting for the divisive puppets? Will enough people stop supporting media outlets that don't even attempt to present facts? What will the tipping point be?
This post was edited on 12/11 1:07 PM by Pirate6711
With a cursory review of the posts in this thread, it is easy to identify where a poster stands on the spectrum. Blaming the political system and the media is a cop out. Closed hearts and closed minds are the issue.
Blows my mind that anyone who watched that Garner video's takeaway would be well that's what happens when you resist arrest.
box, it's not a matter of black and white, which is unfortunately how everyone wants to paint this.
My view of this is that the GJ should have been presented with multiple options and from only what I've seen and read seems like a Reckless Endangerment charge that should have included all of the police including the seargent and then let a jury decide. I agree that the prosecutor asked for a charge that there was little supporting evidence to get it to trial.
IMO, this isn't about a choke-hold or headlock. The medical examiner determined that's not what killed him. He was an unhealthy person and the takedown and compression are what caused his death. To pin it on the one cop doesn't fit. The other thing we need to remember is that police work is a tough business and arrests made when the subject resists...anything can happen. This is not a science; it's a dirty business and impossible to be able to carefully pick and choose the restraint or lethal force that is required...stuff happens quickly and unpredictably.
I think the three day police training is superficial at best and gives the politicians something to say they did. Waste of time. I think the better way to go is to deploy body-cams and add a Tazer as standard gear. In the short time body-cams have been in the field, numerous departments have seen a drop in reported harrassment cases and let's face it; the both police and the civilian are motivated to be more respectful because of the technology. I think it would be a great invention to have a 2 in 1 weapon...9MM and Tazer that the officer has the option to use....somebody should be able to figure that one out.
