Giants Another Meltdown

[TomD82]

It is so bad it deserves a separate thread.
How can an organization keep putting players out there who make terrible mistakes, don't know the game situation and commit costly penalties game after game for years now? These DBs just let a WR run right by them in a second up 11 pts?

Couple of notes. I never want to see Evan Engram in a Giants uniform any more. Andrew Thomas looks like the second coming of Ereck Flowers. The defense is so slow and misses so many open field tackles. Other teams play up tempo and this defense is gassed by halftime while the Giants offense is methodical and gets bliztkrieged every game.

Fitting the game ends on a Jones fumble after all the good things he did. Anybody see him fall down on the 10 yard line after going 80 yards? I thought for sure that was going to result in another red zone failure.

This organization has a culture problem with the type players they evaluate, draft and play. Judge is going to have to do something about this instead of playing these types from Gettlemen and Reese. Maybe Piratz is right bring in somebody to work with Judge because to me this looks like a Maccagnan or Douglas- Gase situation it does not seem to fit to me.

 

[SHUSA]

pretty sure the owner phoned in to shut it down at the end. a 6-10 playoff slot will kill u in the draft va the value you deserve

 

[Piratz]

No words for that. Just a ridiculous football team. Two first round picks out there destroying their unit in Engram and Thomas. Then the defense plays with a bunch of replacement players who are committing killer penalties.

It needs a total shake up. A new outside perspective. No more Gettleman, Abrams, or bringing back former Giants and status quo. I like Judge and his staff, it’s the only positive.

 

[TomD82]

No words for that. Just a ridiculous football team. Two first round picks out there destroying their unit in Engram and Thomas. Then the defense plays with a bunch of replacement players who are committing killer penalties.

It needs a total shake up. A new outside perspective. No more Gettleman, Abrams, or bringing back former Giants and status quo. I like Judge and his staff, it’s the only positive.

Agree and Judge is going to have to put his stamp on his team and quickly. Coughlin had his stamp taken away, McAdoo and Shurmur never put their stamp on the team. In fact Judge sounds like Shurmur to me in all his pressers. I' ll have to go back and look at the tape is his answer every time. He said there are consequences for breaking team rules for Thomas then there should be consequences for that kind of play from others too.

Ballentine and Ryan are not replacement players and they commit penalties like the replacements. Flores in Miami had replacement players last year and look what he has done.

 

[TheHall87]

Flores' team started 0-7 last year and ended up 5-11. And that was after being outscored 163-26 in their first four games.

This is a team that more than many would have benefited from a normal off-season program and pre-season games. They would be further along. Hopefully they don't completely fold up and figure out how to win some of these games.

 

[SHUSA]

why do people want wins? makes no sense this year. just show that you can compete and have some bright spots/good coaching. then bring it together the next year.

 

[Piratz]

why do people want wins? makes no sense this year. just show that you can compete and have some bright spots/good coaching. then bring it together the next year.

The Giants have a culture of Loser’s Lament right now because they lose close games. You are 1-6 in Year 3 of a new GM’s regime. You put the GM on notice that he had to “up his batting average” and I’m watching guys like Ballentine and Harper commit game-changing penalties in key spots.

So that’s 1-6 this year, 3-16 in the past 19, 13-42 since the start of 2017. They cannot even get 1st Round draft picks right. Going back to 2017 we’re talking about Engram, Barkley, Baker, now Thomas looking like a bust as he is far worse than even Nate Solder. SMH.

Gettleman’s last act should be trading veterans and acquiring picks for the new guy. There could be some market for Engram (GM’s ooze over “Combine talent” like him), maybe Tate, Markus Golden, Leonard Williams. Then you have to finally clean sweep the front office. MUST hire an outsider to refresh the entire organization. Don’t give me another former Giants employee or promote from within.

They haven’t hired from the outside since 1979. It’s time again.

 

[TomD82]

Flores' team started 0-7 last year and ended up 5-11. And that was after being outscored 163-26 in their first four games.

This is a team that more than many would have benefited from a normal off-season program and pre-season games. They would be further along. Hopefully they don't completely fold up and figure out how to win some of these games.

And I think Miami had something like 21 undrafted free agents on their roster. And they traded Minka Fitzpatrick and Tunsil during that stretch going back to the prior season for Tunsil.

Giants were destroyed by a 3rd string 49ers team that got destroyed at home by Eagles and Miami after that game. Coaching still leaves a lot to be desired and the front office is basically a disaster. This is a recipe for failure.

 

[SHUSA]

The Giants have a culture of Loser’s Lament right now because they lose close games. You are 1-6 in Year 3 of a new GM’s regime. You put the GM on notice that he had to “up his batting average” and I’m watching guys like Ballentine and Harper commit game-changing penalties in key spots.

So that’s 1-6 this year, 3-16 in the past 19, 13-42 since the start of 2017. They cannot even get 1st Round draft picks right. Going back to 2017 we’re talking about Engram, Barkley, Baker, now Thomas looking like a bust as he is far worse than even Nate Solder. SMH.

Gettleman’s last act should be trading veterans and acquiring picks for the new guy. There could be some market for Engram (GM’s ooze over “Combine talent” like him), maybe Tate, Markus Golden, Leonard Williams. Then you have to finally clean sweep the front office. MUST hire an outsider to refresh the entire organization. Don’t give me another former Giants employee or promote from within.

They haven’t hired from the outside since 1979. It’s time again.

Barkley was not a bust. unless the giants drafted jake allen who had that stupid "character issue" or lamar jackson who nobody believed in, they drafted the best player.

in terms of losing, yea that sucks but theyre fighting and trying. seems like judge has instilled the right mindset. this is not a gase jets situation where the team doesnt even show up. it will make the winning that much better when they get over the hill.

the big issue as you mentioned is not blowing so many 1st rd picks. at this point they should make a list of guys they like, throw it out, and then take someone another team wants LOL.

 

[Section112]

This organization needs a 2nd George Young moment. Where is Pete Rozelle when you need him to talk to Mara and crew?

 

[hallgrad80]

Am I the only one who thinks that our most recent first round pick at # 4 , Andrew Thomas looks like another high pick offensive lineman who is a questionmark. . I watch him and I see nothing that suggests he was worth the fourth overall pick in the draft. He is slow, doesn’t sustain his block, his footwork is fundamentally flawed , he doesn’t use his hands well and he doesn’t run block effectively at all.

I know he’s a rookie , playing the difficult LT position after playing the right tackle position in college but what I see is a player who doesn’t show the skill set required to be the anchor of the Giants OL. I just keep having flashbacks to the Flowers pick by the Giants and how he never mastered the skills that tackles need in the NFL to be successful. I do hope I’m wrong and that he progresses as the season moves along and we can see him as a building block for the OL.

 

[hallgrad80]

This organization needs a 2nd George Young moment. Where is Pete Rozelle when you need him to talk to Mara and crew?

You would hope that Mara who has seen his reputation as one of the more astute owners in the NFL morph into an owner who is widely criticized for the current state of the Giants take the step to hire a George Young or Ernie Accorsi to get the Giants back on track and salvage his reputation.

 

[SHUSA]

Am I the only one who thinks that our most recent first round pick at # 4 , Andrew Thomas looks like another high pick offensive lineman who is a questionmark. . I watch him and I see nothing that suggests he was worth the fourth overall pick in the draft. He is slow, doesn’t sustain his block, his footwork is fundamentally flawed , he doesn’t use his hands well and he doesn’t run block effectively at all.

I know he’s a rookie , playing the difficult LT position after playing the right tackle position in college but what I see is a player who doesn’t show the skill set required to be the anchor of the Giants OL. I just keep having flashbacks to the Flowers pick by the Giants and how he never mastered the skills that tackles need in the NFL to be successful. I do hope I’m wrong and that he progresses as the season moves along and we can see him as a building block for the OL.

no, everyone who has posted in this thread said the same thing. hell everyone outside of this thread is saying thomas looks like a bust.

 

[hbkmyr]

no, everyone who has posted in this thread said the same thing. hell everyone outside of this thread is saying thomas looks like a bust.

Yea. I think its a universal thought that he's been a huge disappointment.

 

[Burnsly]

No doubt Thomas has been awful but it's way too early to call him a bust. Keep in mind he's a rookie, playing the hardest position on the OL without the benefit of a real training camp or exhibition games. Let's hope that with experience he gets better.

 

[Piratz]

Botched plays and debilitating penalties in crunch time by Ballentine, Lewis x2, and Hadre. These guys won’t be near a good roster.

Plus a dropped INT by Nate freaking Ebner.

 

[TomD82]

Botched plays and debilitating penalties in crunch time by Ballentine, Lewis x2, and Hadre. These guys won’t be near a good roster.

Plus a dropped INT by Nate freaking Ebner.

Add Love to the mix for me. To me his is not a safety and was nowhere near the play Eagles went 49 yards on the pass. I mean Fulgram is off the practice squad and he is better than our WRs and can beat all the DBs.

 

[SHU_Pirate1]

"There's No Hope With That Dope!" Gettleman has done enough damage. Need to rebuild this from the top down. The team as it stands now and the last few years is truly as pathetic as the mid 70's Giants...pre LT, pre George Young, pre Parcells

Giants had elite pass rusher Josh Allen fall in their lap and they passed on him to take "Danny Dimes"...aka, Danny TO, Greg from Dharma and Greg at the helm. They had a potential franchise QB drop in their lap with a chance for redemption and a second chance to have a top notch talent lead their team... and they passed on Justin Herbert 😥🤢😡🤬...instead choose what looks to be a big disappointment in Andrew Thomas who's charged with protecting Danny Dimes. Brilliant! Mistake upon mistake. Doubling down on the dumbness.

Some are starting to finally question it but PLEASE, can someone please recognize that the emperor has no clothes?!? Danny is NOT a franchise QB. Giants put all their hope in a QB who couldn't even will his bad college team to a 500 record. A losing record at Dook!... and we're not talking about a guy with a Dan Marino arm here. Just sad. Giants had an excellent chance to rebuild their team and made some tragically bad choices. Sadly they're not bad enough to get Trevor to revitalize this franchise but losing that fool Gettleman would be a huge start.

 

[SHU_Pirate1]

Yea. I think its a universal thought that he's been a huge disappointment.

What's an even bigger disappointment is that the Giants could have landed a true franchise QB with the pick. The Chargers got the heir apparent to Philip Rivers and we got the heir apparent to Ereck Flowers!

Daniel Jeremiah breaks down what makes Chargers QB Justin Herbert so special

Los Angeles Chargers quarterback Justin Herbert has been really good.

chargerswire.usatoday.com

 

[TomD82]

I have no problem with Jones except that they took him too high. The trade up should have been for him and not Baker. Just like Eli he is being set up to fail. And Becton was the tackle they should have taken, but it shows how bad their draft board is even if there was no consensus on the 4 top tackles in the past draft. Thomas was not a reach like Flowers, but he does look just as bad.

 

[TomD82]

Anybody see that play where Ballentine was uncovered on the punt and Dixon was trying to get his attention and even Judge's attention to see if he should throw it to him? Ballentine never even looked or seemed to think hey why is nobody covering me.

We talk about low IQ basketball players all the time here. In the same context is there a team with more low IQ players than the Giants?

 

[SHU_Pirate1]

Genius Dave just made a blockbuster, Giants really looking to the future. Trade Markus Golden...for a ...hold your hats... a 6th round pick! The future looks bright Giants fans!

 

[TomD82]

Typical Gettlemen. Best pass rusher with 10.5 sacks last year and a great hustle player. He really did not want to resign him and they use him less this year so the coaching staff also was not thrilled with him either. Good luck with the pass rush rest of the year with him gone.

 

[hallgrad80]

Typical Gettlemen. Best pass rusher with 10.5 sacks last year and a great hustle player. He really did not want to resign him and they use him less this year so the coaching staff also was not thrilled with him either. Good luck with the pass rush rest of the year with him gone.

Golden returns to the Cardinals , the team that originally drafted him in the second round where he played for four years before signing a free agent contract with the Giants last year.

 

[Potbelly407]

Genius Dave just made a blockbuster, Giants really looking to the future. Trade Markus Golden...for a ...hold your hats... a 6th round pick! The future looks bright Giants fans!

View embedded media

Sorry, gotta disagree, this is a good deal for the Giants. Golden is 29 on an expiring contract. What did you think they were going to get for him?

 

[SHU_Pirate1]

Maybe you're right...that 6th round pick is just the type of valuable draft capital that could help land Trevor Lawrence!😂

 

[SHUSA]

Golden is declining on the end of his deal. those guys arent worth much.

 

[Potbelly407]

Maybe you're right...that 6th round pick is just the type of valuable draft capital that could help land Trevor Lawrence!😂

Maybe not for Lawrence, but I don’t know, maybe good for DEPTH, which this roster is definitely void of

 

[hallgrad80]

The Giants are going nowhere this year so trading Golden gives the young linebackers a chance to get game experience the same way against the Cowboys Judge started Peart and gave Lemieux playing time plus the Giants get a pick, even though it’s only a sixth round one.

 

[NYC Pirate]

The Giants are going nowhere this year so trading Golden gives the young linebackers a chance to get game experience the same way against the Cowboys Judge started Peart and gave Lemieux playing time plus the Giants get a pick, even though it’s only a sixth round one.

I really agree with this. Play everyone at this point. My opinion on Jones is that its way too early to say he's not a franchise QB. I actually lean towards him being a top notch player when it's said and done. When he has time the ball is delivered. I don't ever recall a play where I said this guy sucks ,when he's had some protection. Maybe he pats the ball too much when pressure is coming? Him falling in the open field is irrelevant to me. It was probably tough for him to gage the closing speeds of the Eagle players and he got into a situation where he was trying to go faster than he could. I believe he was a good basketball player in high school and that accounts for some of his quickness.

Anyway, you are correct about playing all the draftees at this point. I would not mind seeing Peart at OT and Thomas on the right side via some experimentation at various times the rest of the way. It doesn't have to be permanent , but why not give it a look here and there.

 

[SHU_Pirate1]

The Giants are going nowhere this year so trading Golden gives the young linebackers a chance to get game experience the same way against the Cowboys Judge started Peart and gave Lemieux playing time plus the Giants get a pick, even though it’s only a sixth round one.

A lot of what I wrote is tongue in cheek in case some missed it...from a very frustrated, embarrassed, and disheartened lifelong Giants fan. Have to vent someplace. Don't think they got value for what was one of the few decent players they had on the team but it doesn't matter at this point. Of course they have to rebuild, of course they need depth. They are in dire need of quality though as well. When I saw a trade was coming on the wire I thought it'd be Evan Engram who I never liked and thought they'd be able to get something for. Agree, play the young guys, don't wind up 5-11 and lose the shot at a top flight draft pick. Unfortunately they're not bad enough to get Trevor Lawrence. Sad as it is they're better off losing, getting a very high pick and dumping Gettleman. Hopefully someone new and competent will be there next year to make that pick a winner and start the rebuild.

 

[TomD82]

I am sure the 6th round pick by Getty for Golden will turn out to be a Tom Brady type. Golden has no deal left because he is under a tender offer. There was no market for pass rushers looking for long term deals this off season. See Clowney, Nagouke etc. And Minnesota did not give up much for him and now they traded him. Point is you don't get better like this. Now if you did what Miami did and the Colts did you get better. But, that just shows how Gettlemen never accumulated assets in the first place to sell off and get better.

Good luck with the young LBs playing in place of Golden. Carter is hurt and so is Crowder now. Let's see Mayo or Martinez get 10.5 sacks like Golden did.

 

[SHUSA]

I am sure the 6th round pick by Getty for Golden will turn out to be a Tom Brady type. Golden has no deal left because he is under a tender offer. There was no market for pass rushers looking for long term deals this off season. See Clowney, Nagouke etc. And Minnesota did not give up much for him and now they traded him. Point is you don't get better like this. Now if you did what Miami did and the Colts did you get better. But, that just shows how Gettlemen never accumulated assets in the first place to sell off and get better.

Good luck with the young LBs playing in place of Golden. Carter is hurt and so is Crowder now. Let's see Mayo or Martinez get 10.5 sacks like Golden did.

who cares if they dont get 10 sacks? they are tanking. what dont u get?

 

[TomD82]

who cares if they dont get 10 sacks? they are tanking. what dont u get?

Golden's playing time was reduced before this. Gettlemen might be tanking, but the players are not. Williams is not tanking neither is Jones, Martinez or Fackrell and not James Bradberry for sure. I have no idea what games you are watching. Then again Gettlemen has been tanking for 3 years now.

 

[NYC Pirate]

Golden's playing time was reduced before this. Gettlemen might be tanking, but the players are not. Williams is not tanking neither is Jones, Martinez or Fackrell and not James Bradberry for sure. I have no idea what games you are watching. Then again Gettlemen has been tanking for 3 years now.

Question for you TomD82, in your opinion it looks like Williams performance may be falling off late in games. He could be worn out after so many minutes with the rest of the defense. The Giants are getting killed to their right aside from the late TD pass late against Washington. Williams looks like he just can't get to the QB in that lane. So do you think it would be better to have a fresh player out there at that point? A backup is not worn out late in the 4th quarter?

 

[SHUSA]

Golden's playing time was reduced before this. Gettlemen might be tanking, but the players are not. Williams is not tanking neither is Jones, Martinez or Fackrell and not James Bradberry for sure. I have no idea what games you are watching. Then again Gettlemen has been tanking for 3 years now.

great. so new players will have their chance to grow. everyone in the nfl tries (except the jets), someone has to lose

 

[TheHall87]

who cares if they dont get 10 sacks? they are tanking. what dont u get?

Golden's playing time was reduced before this. Gettlemen might be tanking, but the players are not. Williams is not tanking neither is Jones, Martinez or Fackrell and not James Bradberry for sure. I have no idea what games you are watching. Then again Gettlemen has been tanking for 3 years now.

Coaches and players don't tank. They're too busy trying to keep their jobs or get their next one.

Gettleman might be tanking but he won't be around to bear the fruits of it anyway. As GM part of his job is to determine who isn't part of the future and try to get something of value in return. It would have been nice if he could have gotten more for Golden but the ceiling is a fourth rounder at best for a guy who is likely closer to the end of his career than the beginning.

 

[Piratz]

Golden played 36% of the defensive snaps. There was only 1 game when he played more than that average and that was at Dallas when Carter got hurt. He was not going to be re-signed, so to get a pick for that is a good move.

I think it's simply a case where he wasn't a good fit for the scheme or didn't pick it up well. He signed very late for depth and then was delayed further getting into Camp. He was clearly 4th on the depth chart at OLB behind Carter, Ximines, and Fackrell. Even with Carter and Ximines out he could not see the field more regularly.

DC Patrick Graham does a lot with safeties coming into the box and their pass rush as a team is much better than last year under Bettcher, when Golden was good, so I really don't have any complaints. The defense is not why they are 1-6, actually quite the opposite. It's why they could be in the hunt with this rag-tag roster at 3-4 or 4-3.

 

[Piratz]

Flores' team started 0-7 last year and ended up 5-11. And that was after being outscored 163-26 in their first four games.

This is a team that more than many would have benefited from a normal off-season program and pre-season games. They would be further along. Hopefully they don't completely fold up and figure out how to win some of these games.

Absolutely. Also reminds me of Parcells' final year with the Jets when they had such high hopes to begin the year, but Testaverde went down in the opener. They opened 1-6 under Rick Mirer until Parcells moved to Ray Lucas who sparked them to 8-8.

Even in Pat Shurmur's first year with the Giants there was some positivity down the stretch after the team started 1-7, then went 4-4 in the second half with a few of those losses (at PHI, at IND, DAL) being games they blew.

So what's the point? Just see where it ends up. You have a 2nd year QB in Year 1 of a brand new system and a rookie HC. You want to end this year seeing tangible progress. Their next 4 games are Tampa Bay, at Washington, Philadelphia, at Cincinnati. Start there. After that, well, it's tough, LOL.

 

[Piratz]

Typical Gettlemen. Best pass rusher with 10.5 sacks last year and a great hustle player. He really did not want to resign him and they use him less this year so the coaching staff also was not thrilled with him either. Good luck with the pass rush rest of the year with him gone.

So Gettleman gets to manage these trades despite being on the hot seat? Maybe the seat isn't as hot as outsiders thing. Odd situation created by John Mara.