Griner says Baylor told her to keep her homosexuality private

[Halldan1]

Still have a ways to go....

Former Baylor star Brittney Griner said it was an "unwritten law" to keep her homosexuality private so she would not dissuade recruits from choosing the school. (Barry Gossage/Getty Images)

Former Baylor women's basketball star Brittney Griner, who acknowledged she was gay in an interview with SI.com's Maggie Gray last month, said Bears coach Kim Mulkey told her not to be open publicly about her sexuality because it would hurt recruiting, according to ESPN.com.

Griner, the WNBA's No. 1 pick who will debut with the Phoenix Mercury on May 27, said the silence was an "unwritten law" meant to protect the program's image.

The 22-year-old reiterated she has been open about her sexuality with family and friends since her freshman year of high school and Mulkey and her Baylor teammates knew she was gay.

Mulkey declined to comment on Griner's personal life, instead referring to a prior statement that touted her as "a celebrated member of the Baylor family."

From the report:

"It was a recruiting thing," Griner said during an interview with ESPN The Magazine and espnW. "The coaches thought that if it seemed like they condoned it, people wouldn't let their kids come play for Baylor."

…

Baylor University, a private Baptist school located in Waco, Texas, has a "Statement on Human Sexuality" in its student handbook. Located under the label "Sexual Misconduct," it says that "Christian churches across the ages and around the world have affirmed purity in singleness and fidelity in marriage between a man and a woman as the biblical norm. Temptations to deviate from this norm include both heterosexual sex outside of marriage and homosexual behavior. It is thus expected that Baylor students will not participate in advocacy groups which promote understandings of sexuality that are contrary to biblical teaching."




This post was edited on 5/20 10:55 AM by Halldan1

http://tracking.si.com/2013/05/18/brittney-griner-

 

[Pirate6711]

What do you expect from an ultra-conservative Baptist university? She was accepted by her coaches, teammates, friends, and family. If she had issues with how she was treated at Baylor, then why did she stay there? This is a non-story. I think Kim Mulkey's statement is perfect and straight to the point: "Brittney Griner represented Baylor University proudly on and off the basketball court, and she leaves behind an incredible legacy. I cannot comment on personal matters surrounding any of our student-athletes, but I can tell you Brittney will always be a celebrated member of the Baylor family."

What else needs to be said? Here we have an outstanding basketball player who has been open about her sexuality for years and she was praised for being an excellent basketball player. Now, it's wrong that she was praised as being an outstanding basketball player instead of an outstanding gay basketball player?

 

[bluemoments]

Sorry.

Athletic gay teenagers can use role models. A little disappointing if not surprising if a D1 coach is preventing that from happening.

 

[SHUPirate08]

This is a private Baptist university. Christianity has certain standards to uphold and if you CHOOSE to go there you need to be aware of them. I am not Catholic, but when I went to SHU I understood I would have to take a religion class. I didnt agree with what was being taught but I took the class because SHU is Catholic and I knew that when I enrolled. I dont understand the controvery. Did she think she was attending a public university? Baptists have just as much freedom to be against homosexuality as anyone else has to be for or against it. It isnt a secret Christianity is against homosexuality, has been from the beginning and always will and should, or else the name Christianity should be changed. That is what Christianity is. If you dont like it, dont volunteer to go to THEIR school and then complain that they are being Christian. How crazy is this!

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

This crap never ends. If she didn't like their policies then don't attend their school. They don't take public money, so they can create their own rules.

This agenda to shove the sexuality of players down our throats is old pretty fast. While looking at colleges I eliminated schools where a religion class was a requirement, as I had four years of that in high school. By these standards, I should of gone to a school that required that, and then complained they discriminated against me by making that a requirement.

This post was edited on 5/20 3:07 PM by kniespolice

 

[omega83]

Homosexuals in sports, what a concept. Homosexuals in women's sports. Who really is shocked. Homosexuals in the WNBA....you can finish this one.

 

[Seton75]

Originally posted by kniespolice:
This crap never ends. If she didn't like their policies then don't attend their school. They don't take public money, so they can create their own rules.

This agenda to shove the sexuality of players down our throats is old pretty fast. While looking at colleges I eliminated schools where a religion class was a requirement, as I had four years of that in high school. By these standards, I should of gone to a school that required that, and then complained they discriminated against me by making that a requirement.


This post was edited on 5/20 3:07 PM by kniespolice

Another way to look at it is interest in Baylor's program is at an unprecedented level because of Griner, so she should masquerade as a straight so she doesnt scare away all the players who want to play with such a great player, but may change their mind if they know she is gay. Screw the uncomfortableness this may bring to Griner if she finds that some of the new players are homophobic. We hetrosexuals have been shoving our sexuality down the throat of the world forever (unfortunate metahor probably). I am glad things are changing on this front.

 

[Halldan1]

Outside The Lines ‏@OTLonESPN 4h

Should a college have the right to tell a gay student/athlete to keep quiet about their sexuality? #BaylorPolicy 3P ET ESPN

 

[Section112]

A private college can do whatever it wants as long as there are no strings attached to accepting any public funds.

With that said folks have to loosen up about this. But Brittany knew what she was getting into by going to Baylor. If not shame on her.

I would find it hard to believe though that parents of any D1 female basketball player would automatically believe that all the girls on the team are heterosexual. If so I am in sales and I know a bridge I'd like to sell them ... To me the recruiting angle is a weak one.

 

[TrueBlue1989]

No one forced her to attend. Baylor has its policies which should be respected. If you don't like it don't attend the school. Non story.

 

[Torino1]

She had no choice to as to her sexual orientation,but with her talent she could have chosen to go anywhere.

 

[bluemoments]

Has anyone suggested that if she came out of the closet it would violate university policy? This sounds like a coach's request, which is a far cry from policy.

 

[TonyC72]

According to Griener, Mulkey knew Brittany was gay when recruiting her. If there were restrictions, did she tell Brittany? And why did she recruit her in the first place.

 

[HallLine69]

Originally posted by SHUPirate08:

This is a private Baptist university. Christianity has certain standards to uphold and if you CHOOSE to go there you need to be aware of them. I am not Catholic, but when I went to SHU I understood I would have to take a religion class. I didnt agree with what was being taught but I took the class because SHU is Catholic and I knew that when I enrolled. I dont understand the controvery. Did she think she was attending a public university? Baptists have just as much freedom to be against homosexuality as anyone else has to be for or against it. It isnt a secret Christianity is against homosexuality, has been from the beginning and always will and should, or else the name Christianity should be changed. That is what Christianity is. If you dont like it, dont volunteer to go to THEIR school and then complain that they are being Christian. How crazy is this!

Interesting sweeping statement you make about Christianity ALWAYS being against homosexuality. Jesus Christ NEVER said a word in any of the gospels about homosexuality. Not a word. He did condemn things like adultery and judging others...but never a word on homosexuality.

I always liked Kim Mulkey but it's disappointing to see the way she handled this. Most young people today are quite open-minded about homosexuality. That's encouraging. But there are always plenty of people who will leap at any opportunity to bash gay people, and that's behavior that seems rather un-Christian to me.

This post was edited on 5/20 9:43 PM by HallLine69

 

[HallLine69]

Originally posted by Hallfan1:
No one forced her to attend. Baylor has its policies which should be respected. If you don't like it don't attend the school. Non story.

If that's the case then why did they recruit her?

 

[TrueBlue1989]

She is the best player in America and she agreed to comply with the school's policies.

 

[TonyC72]

Did Mulkey tell her that during the recruitment and was it a policy? I just can't take a side until I know more. Brittany did stay. It doesn't mean she can't complain after leaving.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

oh please, if it was such an issue she should of left. Weve got people devastated by natural disaster, who needs this crap

 

[SHUPirate08]

Originally posted by HallLine69:

Originally posted by SHUPirate08:

This is a private Baptist university. Christianity has certain standards to uphold and if you CHOOSE to go there you need to be aware of them. I am not Catholic, but when I went to SHU I understood I would have to take a religion class. I didnt agree with what was being taught but I took the class because SHU is Catholic and I knew that when I enrolled. I dont understand the controvery. Did she think she was attending a public university? Baptists have just as much freedom to be against homosexuality as anyone else has to be for or against it. It isnt a secret Christianity is against homosexuality, has been from the beginning and always will and should, or else the name Christianity should be changed. That is what Christianity is. If you dont like it, dont volunteer to go to THEIR school and then complain that they are being Christian. How crazy is this!

Interesting sweeping statement you make about Christianity ALWAYS being against homosexuality. Jesus Christ NEVER said a word in any of the gospels about homosexuality. Not a word. He did condemn things like adultery and judging others...but never a word on homosexuality.

I always liked Kim Mulkey but it's disappointing to see the way she handled this. Most young people today are quite open-minded about homosexuality. That's encouraging. But there are always plenty of people who will leap at any opportunity to bash gay people, and that's behavior that seems rather un-Christian to me.

This post was edited on 5/20 9:43 PM by HallLine69

You need to studdyyyyy!! Here are several obvious examples solely from the New Testament. (And you are right, not everyone who CALLS himself a "Christian" is against homosexuality. But the truth is anyone can call themselves a Christian. The name Christianity means nothing. What defines a Christian is their life and beliefs and if they measure up to what is taught as doctrine in the guidebook called the Bible. The Bible is CLEARLY against homosexuality, and I dont even know how this is an argument). But since you brought it up, here we go...btw in one of the passages listed here, it actually says those who are involved in these practices are "worthy of death". (The passage in Romans).


ew 19:1-8 ? Did Jesus say anything about homosexuality? Of course, when asked about marriage, Jesus issued a sweeping condemnation of all sexual relationships outside of the male/female model established in Gen 1:27, which he specifically cited


ew 19:1-8 ? Did Jesus say anything about homosexuality? Of course, when asked about marriage, Jesus issued a sweeping condemnation of all sexual relationships outside of the male/female model established in Gen 1:27, which he specifically cited.

Matthew 19:1-8 Did Jesus say anything about homosexuality? Of course, when asked about marriage, Jesus issued a sweeping condemnation of all sexual relationships outside of the male/female model established in Gen 1:27, which he specifically cited.
Romans 1:18-32 Though most of the passages deal with the male perspective, for the first time there is a specific mention of female homosexuality. And as the verdict comes in, we discover it too is a depraved condition brought on by a sinful nature.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11: The only passage of scripture that clearly acknowledges former (ex) homosexuals in the church. They are listed along with other ex-sinners who have been changed by the power of Christ. It is certain that Pastor Paul knew there were former homosexuals in his local church and he celebrated their freedom in Christ Jesus. With a completely different tone in comparison to the volume of harsh, negative reaction to the unrepentant homosexuality, scripture here ends with the tremendous hope and goodness of God.

Jude 1:4,7,19 Jude forcefully revealed that like the Sodomites, certain men in the church had gone after “strange flesh.” His choice of phraseology is a combination of two words: heteros and sarx meaning “another flesh with the same quality.” His inclusion of the word flesh pointed to the homosexuality (not the inhospitality) of the Sodomites. Similar to the Apostle Paul, Jude selected strong language to convey the serious of the charge facing the church. Allowing unrepentant homosexuals into Christian fellowship without applying the same standards of admission applied to other sinners would be a spiritual death nell for the church. Repentance is the major action a sinner must take to be accepted into the family of God.

This of course is not the popular view, but it is Gods view and the Biblical view. This IS Christianity, take it or leave it!
Jude 1:4,7,19 ? Jude forcefully revealed that like the Sodomites, certain men in the church had gone after "strange flesh." His choice of phraseology is a combination of two words: heteros and sarx meaning "another flesh with the same quality." His inclusion of the word flesh pointed to the homosexuality (not the inhospitality) of the Sodomites. Similar to the Apostle Paul, Jude selected strong language to convey the serious of the charge facing the church. Allowing unrepentant homosexuals into Christian fellowship without applying the same standards of admission applied to other sinners would be a spiritual death nell for the church. Repentance is the major action a sinner must take to be accepted into the family of God

These are only NEW TESTAMENT examples. The Old Testament and Law of Moses are FULL of examples, one being the cities of Soddom and Gomorrah which were so overrun with homosexuality that God sent fire from heaven and destroyed the cities from the face of the planet. The Bible says we must love the sinner but hate the sin! I know this is not a popular view, but this IS Christianity, take it or leave it!

This post was edited on 5/20 10:21 PM by SHUPirate08

This post was edited on 5/20 10:24 PM by SHUPirate08

 

[TonyC72]

This story broke before the natural disaster and it raises important societal issues. My heart and prayers go out to the victims and those in harms way, but we can't forget everything else. If we got a new recruit this board would be bursting with joy.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

Tony we get it. Any athlete who is homosexual will now use this time to come out and tell their story.

What is important is to remember that Griner could play anywhere, yet she chose Baylor. Therefore she should deal with the christian atmosphere at Baylor, whether she is hetero or homo sexual. A good comparison is davies from byu, he broke byu code and accepted the repurcussions. Griner chose Baylor and thus should expect her homosexuality to be shunned.

 

[TonyC72]

A strong point knies, but I still like to know more about her recruitment about discussions with the coaching staff of that Baptist school. A friend of mine is a coach of a Catholic girls team in New York, and he has to deal with that issue all the time. It can be tough. More importantly, his stocked AAU team will be playing at the Hall in a tournament soon. Let's get some of those girls. In closing, I'm just not rushing to judgment. That's my nature. At the end of the day, I might even agree with you.

 

[cernjSHU]

Originally posted by SHUPirate08:

You need to studdyyyyy!! Here are several obvious examples solely from the New Testament. (And you are right, not everyone who CALLS himself a "Christian" is against homosexuality. But the truth is anyone can call themselves a Christian. The name Christianity means nothing. What defines a Christian is their life and beliefs and if they measure up to what is taught as doctrine in the guidebook called the Bible. The Bible is CLEARLY against homosexuality, and I dont even know how this is an argument). But since you brought it up, here we go...btw in one of the passages listed here, it actually says those who are involved in these practices are "worthy of death". (The passage in Romans).

O

ew 19:1-8 ? Did Jesus say anything about homosexuality? Of course, when asked about marriage, Jesus issued a sweeping condemnation of all sexual relationships outside of the male/female model established in Gen 1:27, which he specifically cited


ew 19:1-8 ? Did Jesus say anything about homosexuality? Of course, when asked about marriage, Jesus issued a sweeping condemnation of all sexual relationships outside of the male/female model established in Gen 1:27, which he specifically cited.

Matthew 19:1-8 Did Jesus say anything about homosexuality? Of course, when asked about marriage, Jesus issued a sweeping condemnation of all sexual relationships outside of the male/female model established in Gen 1:27, which he specifically cited.
Romans 1:18-32 Though most of the passages deal with the male perspective, for the first time there is a specific mention of female homosexuality. And as the verdict comes in, we discover it too is a depraved condition brought on by a sinful nature.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11: The only passage of scripture that clearly acknowledges former (ex) homosexuals in the church. They are listed along with other ex-sinners who have been changed by the power of Christ. It is certain that Pastor Paul knew there were former homosexuals in his local church and he celebrated their freedom in Christ Jesus. With a completely different tone in comparison to the volume of harsh, negative reaction to the unrepentant homosexuality, scripture here ends with the tremendous hope and goodness of God.

Jude 1:4,7,19 Jude forcefully revealed that like the Sodomites, certain men in the church had gone after "strange flesh." His choice of phraseology is a combination of two words: heteros and sarx meaning "another flesh with the same quality." His inclusion of the word flesh pointed to the homosexuality (not the inhospitality) of the Sodomites. Similar to the Apostle Paul, Jude selected strong language to convey the serious of the charge facing the church. Allowing unrepentant homosexuals into Christian fellowship without applying the same standards of admission applied to other sinners would be a spiritual death nell for the church. Repentance is the major action a sinner must take to be accepted into the family of God.

This of course is not the popular view, but it is Gods view and the Biblical view. This IS Christianity, take it or leave it!
Jude 1:4,7,19 ? Jude forcefully revealed that like the Sodomites, certain men in the church had gone after "strange flesh." His choice of phraseology is a combination of two words: heteros and sarx meaning "another flesh with the same quality." His inclusion of the word flesh pointed to the homosexuality (not the inhospitality) of the Sodomites. Similar to the Apostle Paul, Jude selected strong language to convey the serious of the charge facing the church. Allowing unrepentant homosexuals into Christian fellowship without applying the same standards of admission applied to other sinners would be a spiritual death nell for the church. Repentance is the major action a sinner must take to be accepted into the family of God

These are only NEW TESTAMENT examples. The Old Testament and Law of Moses are FULL of examples, one being the cities of Soddom and Gomorrah which were so overrun with homosexuality that God sent fire from heaven and destroyed the cities from the face of the planet. The Bible says we must love the sinner but hate the sin! I know this is not a popular view, but this IS Christianity, take it or leave it!

This post was edited on 5/20 10:21 PM by SHUPirate08

This post was edited on 5/20 10:24 PM by SHUPirate08

Matthew 19:1-8 When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan. 2 Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.
3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"
4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[b]? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate."
7 "Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"
8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

I think this passage is about marriage and divorce.

 

[SHUPirate08]

Thank you for pointing that out, the verse I was actually looking for was Matthew 19:1-9, with the emphasis being on 9. In this scripture, Jesus talk about fornication as being grounds for divorce. The word fornication here used if you look it up in the Greek is actually "porneia". We get our word pornography from this word. This word was used actually as a "sexual heading", that includes all sexual sins. It refers to bestiality, adultery, incest, homosexuality and lesbianism.

 

[bluemoments]

Please explain the Baylor "policy" to me: Is it

"Thou shall not come out of the closet"?

The only policy reference in this thread I see has to do with activism, and I hardly think announcing your sexual preference qualifies as activism.

This really should not be a big deal. But it is the coach's request, not the players sexual preference, that made it so.

 

[HallLine69]

Originally posted by SHUPirate08:
Thank you for pointing that out, the verse I was actually looking for was Matthew 19:1-9, with the emphasis being on 9. In this scripture, Jesus talk about fornication as being grounds for divorce. The word fornication here used if you look it up in the Greek is actually "porneia". We get our word pornography from this word. This word was used actually as a "sexual heading", that includes all sexual sins. It refers to bestiality, adultery, incest, homosexuality and lesbianism.

You can believe and spin what you want, but Jesus Christ never said a word about homosexuality. Yes, the Old Testament said it was a sin. But read Leviticus and Exodus and tell me you accept and agree with and observe every one of those laws?

I guess we will debate this endlessly. Bottom line, the world has many, many homosexuals...always has, always will. I absolutely refuse to condemn them. I find it shameful and pathetic that some people do.

 

[donnie_baseball]

Originally posted by HallLine69:

Originally posted by SHUPirate08:
Thank you for pointing that out, the verse I was actually looking for was Matthew 19:1-9, with the emphasis being on 9. In this scripture, Jesus talk about fornication as being grounds for divorce. The word fornication here used if you look it up in the Greek is actually "porneia". We get our word pornography from this word. This word was used actually as a "sexual heading", that includes all sexual sins. It refers to bestiality, adultery, incest, homosexuality and lesbianism.

You can believe and spin what you want, but Jesus Christ never said a word about homosexuality. Yes, the Old Testament said it was a sin. But read Leviticus and Exodus and tell me you accept and agree with and observe every one of those laws?

I guess we will debate this endlessly. Bottom line, the world has many, many homosexuals...always has, always will. I absolutely refuse to condemn them. I find it shameful and pathetic that some people do.

I agree with you -- it's no man's job to condemn/judge anyone. Let them deal with their Creator when the time comes. However, Christ didn't specifically say a lot of things; just because he omitted them doesn't make certain behaviors right.

Critics of Christianity love to quote Christ as saying "just love one another," as if that was all there was to it.

 

[SHUPirate08]

Originally posted by HallLine69:

Originally posted by SHUPirate08:
Thank you for pointing that out, the verse I was actually looking for was Matthew 19:1-9, with the emphasis being on 9. In this scripture, Jesus talk about fornication as being grounds for divorce. The word fornication here used if you look it up in the Greek is actually "porneia". We get our word pornography from this word. This word was used actually as a "sexual heading", that includes all sexual sins. It refers to bestiality, adultery, incest, homosexuality and lesbianism.

You can believe and spin what you want, but Jesus Christ never said a word about homosexuality. Yes, the Old Testament said it was a sin. But read Leviticus and Exodus and tell me you accept and agree with and observe every one of those laws?

I guess we will debate this endlessly. Bottom line, the world has many, many homosexuals...always has, always will. I absolutely refuse to condemn them. I find it shameful and pathetic that some people do.

Spin? LOL It has always been known not only throughout Christian history, but to the very beginning of Judaism that homosexuality is condemned by God! It has not been until the last 50 years that individuals have began to put a spin on it and say it is not wrong. I have 3,000+ years of history on my side, as well as one of the oldest and most evidence proven record books on the planet all saying YES God is against homosexuality. That has always been basic tenet of Judaism and Judeo-Christian values. All coming from the Bible. And whether or not Jesus explicitly said "homosexuality is wrong" is not even remotely the argument here. Even if he didnt, what would that matter? The rest of the entire Bible Old Testament through the Book of Revelation all declare it sin, and among the most abominable at that. This is not even debatable!!! You politically correct folks can try to make the Bible politically correct all you want to, you are missing the entire point of the Bible! If everyone was "ok how they are", why would we even need the BIble, or Jesus, or salvation, or heaven and hell. Wow America has seriously fallen for this hollywood media garbage....wake up

 

[shu09]

I hate to get into a religious argument but I couldn't resist. If God condemns it and you believe that God is the creator, why did he create humans who are attracted to the same sex?

 

[Pirate6711]

Originally posted by shu09:
I hate to get into a religious argument but I couldn't resist. If God condemns it and you believe that God is the creator, why did he create humans who are attracted to the same sex?

Game over. It'll be interesting to see the responses to this.

 

[Pirate6711]

Originally posted by shu09:
I hate to get into a religious argument but I couldn't resist. If God condemns it and you believe that God is the creator, why did he create humans who are attracted to the same sex?

I do have something to add to this in terms of the Catholic Church's stance and contradictions regarding homosexuality, but it's probably more appropriate for the "Life Off the Ship" board.

 

[bluemoments]

I hope that some of you never had a child or loved on who comes out of the closet because there ain't a whole lot of understanding going on in some of these posts.

I don't get same-sex love but I get that other people do. Live and let live.

 

[SHUPirate08]

Originally posted by shu09:
I hate to get into a religious argument but I couldn't resist. If God condemns it and you believe that God is the creator, why did he create humans who are attracted to the same sex?

Too easy. God created humans according to His design and to function accordingly. That is why He has a problem when you violate and rebel against His perfect design. Satan's role is to tempt and pervert manking, causing us to deviate from the design of God to the end that we will not be able to function the way He intended. This will stand in the way of us having relationship with God. The Bible says "touch not the uclean thing and I will receive you". The whole purpose of creation is that God wants relationship with us. He in His Word laid out the framework for the way we are intended to live. Because of original sin, we have sinful natures to contend with. Nobody is "born a homosexual". That is the intent of modern day deception because logically if you can make people think they were born that way, then of course you cant "discriminate against them". The truth is none are born this way. People are a product of their environment. It is not natural for homosexual feelings to occur. This is a perversion of normal healthy hormonal feelings in humans. Remember, Satan's job is to pervert the natural.

By your arguement, then we also should respect those involved in bestiality, incest, child molestation, poligamy, etc and every other sexual deviancy because "surely if that is what they like, that was what they were born as!" Of course not! The only reason we look at homosexuality any differently than those other deviancies is because of the agenda pushed upon us by those who seek to validate it as a legitimate lifestyle.

Seriously, please look at this honestly in your own mind clear of what our current sick twisted culture informs us is right and wrong. We are living in a backwards culture where wrong is right and right is wrong. Homosexuality is just step 1. The other sexual deviancies listed already have different groups organized to promote them as legitimate lifetyles and the push to legalize some of them WILL occur given time. 100 years ago it would have been laughable that gay marriage would be this open and pushed on us and cnsidered "normal". Watch and see. It will not stop with homosexuality. So the question is this. If you really think homosexuals were born that way, you must also believe that the other sexual deviancies are born into people from birth. If that was the case, then we would be forced to recognize many of them also. You must be consistent.

 

[SHUPirate08]

Originally posted by bluemoments:
I hope that some of you never had a child or loved on who comes out of the closet because there ain't a whole lot of understanding going on in some of these posts.

I don't get same-sex love but I get that other people do. Live and let live.

Love the sinner, hate the sin. Look at some of those verses I posted earlier. The Apostle Paul describes many in his fellowship who were former homosexuals and other sins, BUT they had been made clean by the salvation plan and delivered of those sins. The Lord IS able to restore to the original design of the manufacturer!

 

[SHUPirate08]

Originally posted by donnie_baseball:

Originally posted by HallLine69:

Originally posted by SHUPirate08:
Thank you for pointing that out, the verse I was actually looking for was Matthew 19:1-9, with the emphasis being on 9. In this scripture, Jesus talk about fornication as being grounds for divorce. The word fornication here used if you look it up in the Greek is actually "porneia". We get our word pornography from this word. This word was used actually as a "sexual heading", that includes all sexual sins. It refers to bestiality, adultery, incest, homosexuality and lesbianism.

You can believe and spin what you want, but Jesus Christ never said a word about homosexuality. Yes, the Old Testament said it was a sin. But read Leviticus and Exodus and tell me you accept and agree with and observe every one of those laws?

I guess we will debate this endlessly. Bottom line, the world has many, many homosexuals...always has, always will. I absolutely refuse to condemn them. I find it shameful and pathetic that some people do.

I agree with you -- it's no man's job to condemn/judge anyone. .

Actually, one of the main reasons we have a Bible IS to be sure of the difference between right and wrong. I agree condemnation is not our function as believers, and the Lord does not operate in condemnation either. However I must disagree with you that we are not supposed to judge and discern certain things. One of the main reasons for believers receiving the Holy Ghost to reside inside them is so hat you CAN properly judge and discern things by the Spirit. The whol 'only God can judge me" mentality is simply a myth, not Biblical. In fact, in one place in the New Testament epistles, the Apostle Paul wrote to a congregation judging on an issue without even being physically there! The reason this is possible is because if you have the Holy Ghost, that Spirit is omnipresent, and if you are in touch with it then therefore you dont actually need to even be there in person in order to discern the truth. Of course this is getting deep so let me just stop here. The point is, the nobody can judge me thing is a myth not Bible. Thats tattoo fodder.

 

[donnie_baseball]

Originally posted by SHUPirate08:

Originally posted by donnie_baseball:

Originally posted by HallLine69:

Originally posted by SHUPirate08:
Thank you for pointing that out, the verse I was actually looking for was Matthew 19:1-9, with the emphasis being on 9. In this scripture, Jesus talk about fornication as being grounds for divorce. The word fornication here used if you look it up in the Greek is actually "porneia". We get our word pornography from this word. This word was used actually as a "sexual heading", that includes all sexual sins. It refers to bestiality, adultery, incest, homosexuality and lesbianism.

You can believe and spin what you want, but Jesus Christ never said a word about homosexuality. Yes, the Old Testament said it was a sin. But read Leviticus and Exodus and tell me you accept and agree with and observe every one of those laws?

I guess we will debate this endlessly. Bottom line, the world has many, many homosexuals...always has, always will. I absolutely refuse to condemn them. I find it shameful and pathetic that some people do.

I agree with you -- it's no man's job to condemn/judge anyone. .

Actually, one of the main reasons we have a Bible IS to be sure of the difference between right and wrong. I agree condemnation is not our function as believers, and the Lord does not operate in condemnation either. However I must disagree with you that we are not supposed to judge and discern certain things. One of the main reasons for believers receiving the Holy Ghost to reside inside them is so hat you CAN properly judge and discern things by the Spirit. The whol 'only God can judge me" mentality is simply a myth, not Biblical. In fact, in one place in the New Testament epistles, the Apostle Paul wrote to a congregation judging on an issue without even being physically there! The reason this is possible is because if you have the Holy Ghost, that Spirit is omnipresent, and if you are in touch with it then therefore you dont actually need to even be there in person in order to discern the truth. Of course this is getting deep so let me just stop here. The point is, the nobody can judge me thing is a myth not Bible. Thats tattoo fodder.

I agree, and you know your theology, but discerning and judging are two different things. The whole "don't judge me" thing has been played out, but in the end, we all have free will. We are a society of people who can't be told anything -- all right and wrong, it seems, is subjective. I'm amazed this discussion is as civil as it's been.

 

[SHUPirate08]

donnie, yes I do agree basically with your last post. We live in a subjective society. But everyone will answer to God one day and God's laws trump culture. What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong no matter what modern society says. Right and wrong dont change. It saddens me to see the degeneration of morals and values in this country. And look at the result. Mass killings, broken marriages, degeneration of the family unit including familial roles, materialism, disrespect, lawlessness, etc etc. And this is EXACTLY the type of things described in the Bible concerning the end times. I believe that true Christians must stand up for right and wrong even in a society where Muslims and homosexuals are catered to and Christians are put down on every level. Political correctness has killed this once proud nation.

 

[Pirate6711]

Originally posted by SHUPirate08:

donnie, yes I do agree basically with your last post. We live in a subjective society. But everyone will answer to God one day and God's laws trump culture. What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong no matter what modern society says. Right and wrong dont change. It saddens me to see the degeneration of morals and values in this country. And look at the result. Mass killings, broken marriages, degeneration of the family unit including familial roles, materialism, disrespect, lawlessness, etc etc. And this is EXACTLY the type of things described in the Bible concerning the end times. I believe that true Christians must stand up for right and wrong even in a society where Muslims and homosexuals are catered to and Christians are put down on every level. Political correctness has killed this once proud nation.

So what do you think should be done with all those evil Muslims and homosexuals who are causing all of the world's problems?

 

[Pirate6711]

Originally posted by SHUPirate08:

Originally posted by shu09:
I hate to get into a religious argument but I couldn't resist. If God condemns it and you believe that God is the creator, why did he create humans who are attracted to the same sex?

Too easy. God created humans according to His design and to function accordingly. That is why He has a problem when you violate and rebel against His perfect design. Satan's role is to tempt and pervert manking, causing us to deviate from the design of God to the end that we will not be able to function the way He intended. This will stand in the way of us having relationship with God. The Bible says "touch not the uclean thing and I will receive you". The whole purpose of creation is that God wants relationship with us. He in His Word laid out the framework for the way we are intended to live. Because of original sin, we have sinful natures to contend with. Nobody is "born a homosexual". That is the intent of modern day deception because logically if you can make people think they were born that way, then of course you cant "discriminate against them". The truth is none are born this way. People are a product of their environment. It is not natural for homosexual feelings to occur. This is a perversion of normal healthy hormonal feelings in humans. Remember, Satan's job is to pervert the natural.

By your arguement, then we also should respect those involved in bestiality, incest, child molestation, poligamy, etc and every other sexual deviancy because "surely if that is what they like, that was what they were born as!" Of course not! The only reason we look at homosexuality any differently than those other deviancies is because of the agenda pushed upon us by those who seek to validate it as a legitimate lifestyle.

Seriously, please look at this honestly in your own mind clear of what our current sick twisted culture informs us is right and wrong. We are living in a backwards culture where wrong is right and right is wrong. Homosexuality is just step 1. The other sexual deviancies listed already have different groups organized to promote them as legitimate lifetyles and the push to legalize some of them WILL occur given time. 100 years ago it would have been laughable that gay marriage would be this open and pushed on us and cnsidered "normal". Watch and see. It will not stop with homosexuality. So the question is this. If you really think homosexuals were born that way, you must also believe that the other sexual deviancies are born into people from birth. If that was the case, then we would be forced to recognize many of them also. You must be consistent.

What about gay priests who molested children, were not disciplined by the Church, were shielded from the law by the Church, and continued to molest children? Are they ok because they are priest? Are they ok because they went to confession every time they raped a kid?

 

[SHUPirate08]

Originally posted by Pirate6711:

Originally posted by SHUPirate08:

Originally posted by shu09:
I hate to get into a religious argument but I couldn't resist. If God condemns it and you believe that God is the creator, why did he create humans who are attracted to the same sex?

Too easy. God created humans according to His design and to function accordingly. That is why He has a problem when you violate and rebel against His perfect design. Satan's role is to tempt and pervert manking, causing us to deviate from the design of God to the end that we will not be able to function the way He intended. This will stand in the way of us having relationship with God. The Bible says "touch not the uclean thing and I will receive you". The whole purpose of creation is that God wants relationship with us. He in His Word laid out the framework for the way we are intended to live. Because of original sin, we have sinful natures to contend with. Nobody is "born a homosexual". That is the intent of modern day deception because logically if you can make people think they were born that way, then of course you cant "discriminate against them". The truth is none are born this way. People are a product of their environment. It is not natural for homosexual feelings to occur. This is a perversion of normal healthy hormonal feelings in humans. Remember, Satan's job is to pervert the natural.

By your arguement, then we also should respect those involved in bestiality, incest, child molestation, poligamy, etc and every other sexual deviancy because "surely if that is what they like, that was what they were born as!" Of course not! The only reason we look at homosexuality any differently than those other deviancies is because of the agenda pushed upon us by those who seek to validate it as a legitimate lifestyle.

Seriously, please look at this honestly in your own mind clear of what our current sick twisted culture informs us is right and wrong. We are living in a backwards culture where wrong is right and right is wrong. Homosexuality is just step 1. The other sexual deviancies listed already have different groups organized to promote them as legitimate lifetyles and the push to legalize some of them WILL occur given time. 100 years ago it would have been laughable that gay marriage would be this open and pushed on us and cnsidered "normal". Watch and see. It will not stop with homosexuality. So the question is this. If you really think homosexuals were born that way, you must also believe that the other sexual deviancies are born into people from birth. If that was the case, then we would be forced to recognize many of them also. You must be consistent.

What about gay priests who molested children, were not disciplined by the Church, were shielded from the law by the Church, and continued to molest children? Are they ok because they are priest? Are they ok because they went to confession every time they raped a kid?

Great point! This has definitely become a societal issue that needs to be looked at seriously. However, I am not Catholic so hat I have to say on this is probably of no interest or relevence here. Although I will say that the real question is, should there even BE priests?? If you read the new testament you wont find any reference to there being "priests" in the early church. In fact, the 5-fold ministry designed and put into place by God for the "perfecting of the body of Christ" refered to by Paul only includes apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. Basically none of these offices are seen in the Catholic church.