What do I want to "do" with them? I'm not really sure what you are asking, but evil will unfortunately always exist on this earth before the coming of the Lord. There is nothing to "do" about it except keep standing up for what is right and encouraging them to receive the blessed salvation made possible by the death of Jesus. We need to pray for those who ae entrapped in sin. There is hope for them! However, those who are not ready to meet the Lord when He returns will all have to answer to Him, not me. And this isnt just "muslims and homosexuals", it is all those who have failed to obey the plan of salvation established after the death burial and resurection of Jesus.
Griner says Baylor told her to keep her homosexuality private
- Thread starter Halldan1
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Many homosexuals would argue that those clergy are pedophiles, not gay. Either way, they should be subject to the same laws as the laity. The percentage of pedophiles in the Catholic priesthood is actually lower than in the general population. Pointing at the coverup scandals in a hierarchy of humans, who are fallible, as well all are, doesn't discredit the theology.
Maybe the word "do" wasn't the right word, but you did grasp my point and gave a good response (even if I don't agree with all of it). There will always be evil in the world. My only issue with having such a hard stance on things is what's evil to one person or people who follow one set of values may not be so to others. That's where a melting pot society like the U.S. has to cater to the rights and values of its citizens as a whole, or else we'll become a religious state, which is something I would rather not be a part of.
SHUPirate08, I'm assuming you're a born again christian and/or evangelical christian? I'm agnostic, I apologize if I have the wording wrong.
Wait we are really discussing homosexuality? Who gives a shit? Anyone who says its a sin is just a moron plane and simple. I have a very close family member who could be the poster boy for a San Francisco gay pride parade guess where he works? He runs a magazine sponsored by the Vatican, imagine that. Also he's brother is a top republican strategist Xmas dinners are the best ha.
You are a good poster and add alot to this board. However, up until this point the conversation has been interesting and respectful. Thanks for the ad hominem garbage and goodbye. I think I'll value the Creator of the universe's opinion over yours.
I get what your saying, but look how far our country has fallen pandering to the deviants and 1% of the population groups. Look at the result of the degeneration of values in this country since the traditional family unit had been challenged and ripped to shreds. I am afraid it is inevitable that this will continue no matter what. However, I cannot in good conscience support what I know is wrong and is contributing to the downfall of this once great nation. You have to consider our future and our childrens future. I would never want to bring up children in this godless society and I am assuredly not exaggerating about that. It will only be exponentially worse 20 years from now. Marriage is between a man and a woman. It will never change no matter what politicians say and do. The line on right and wrong is continually being blurred, and those who do not know what to stand for are falling for this. For example, the "only a moron would call homosexuality a sin" comment. This is how ignorant of right and wrong we have become. Someone standing up for what has always been known as right and wrong throughout history is now called a moron on the internet. So much for respecting people's beliefs, I guess that only applies to homosexuals and the like. Nice country.
Some might call me that I suppose. I call myself apostolic pentecostal. Apostolic because I believe in, practice, and experience what the early apostles did as recorded in the book of Acts. Pentecostal because I have experienced the Day of Pentecost phenomenon of receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost just as the believers did in Acts chapter 2 on the birthday of the church. I could go on but it is sufficient to say, I am a Christian. We are the originals. We did not go off into Catholicism and we are not offshoots of Catholicism by way of the Protestant Reformation. Our beliefs and life experience identifies with the original Biblical accounts of the original church documented in Acts of the New Testament.
How would you describe being an agnostic?
BTW Dan, this has become so off the topic of basketball, might as well move it to the life off the ship.
You can use all the quotes, big words, and paragraphs ya want but calling homosexuality a sin is ridiculous. It's like the Muslim Extremeists saying the Koran wants them to kill the infidel. You can choose to hide behind the bible and say homosexuality is wrong but it really does make you look foolish in this day and age. You have the right to believe what you want, but I also have the right to call you out as a fool.
It's funny after going to Seton Hall, my opinions on religion have changed drastically. I used to attend mass, pray, and go to confession. Now I spend most of my time just trying to be the best person I can be and try to be there for others who may need my help. I'm over a book telling me how to act and how to think, I'll make my own decisions and respect others choices.
Btw shu pirate if you don't mind, how do you feel about gay marriage?
This post was edited on 5/22 6:58 PM by jcalz88
It's funny after going to Seton Hall, my opinions on religion have changed drastically. I used to attend mass, pray, and go to confession. Now I spend most of my time just trying to be the best person I can be and try to be there for others who may need my help. I'm over a book telling me how to act and how to think, I'll make my own decisions and respect others choices.
Btw shu pirate if you don't mind, how do you feel about gay marriage?
This post was edited on 5/22 6:58 PM by jcalz88
This is probably the only thing that I would agree with you on. But yes this is a sports board and this topic has gone way off that mark so I will move it over to the Life Board tomorrow AM so anyone who wants to continue the discussion can do it there.
Tom K
It's also funny (or sad, depending how you look at it) that you criticize people who believe in gay rights as followers of some political agenda that has ruined this country and then you proceed to lump Muslims in with your "evil doers." That's what is really closing your mind and mindlessly following a movement, an agenda that has demonized Muslims for over 10 years now.
Comparing radical Islam to the objection of Christians to same-sex marriage it's what's moronic.
@calz - you're moving in reverse. Being the best person you can be is commendable, but in lieu of a sacramental life? Christ didn't come to say "why don't we all just get along?", he came to call people into communion with their God. Why not be the best person you can be while giving thanks for the chance to do so?
"in this day and age" doesn't fly when you're discussing objective right and wrong. Modern society can't change the absolutes, but it sure has blurred the line.
@calz - you're moving in reverse. Being the best person you can be is commendable, but in lieu of a sacramental life? Christ didn't come to say "why don't we all just get along?", he came to call people into communion with their God. Why not be the best person you can be while giving thanks for the chance to do so?
"in this day and age" doesn't fly when you're discussing objective right and wrong. Modern society can't change the absolutes, but it sure has blurred the line.
you can just feel the nastiness hiding behind Pirate08's fancy descriptions of his own hate and intolerance.
The point is Muslims are turning the world upside down with their hate and violence but yet they are the "religion of peace" and the ones we are catering to in this country but yet mostly peaceful law abiding Christians are the ones now discriminated against. No thanks, I'd rather not "open my mind" to this filth like the rest of the country has. Then I would end up just like them. PASS
Please explain to me how calling homosexuality a sin is ridiculous when it is clearly and explicitly stated to be sin in the Bible? If you dont believe in the validity and truth of the Bible, then fine, dont. But dont call me stupid to believe in the most believed in LIVING Book in the history of the world. And today's "day and age" has no effect on right and wrong. I know thats not what this sick culture is telling you, but it is true anyway. Why would you even want to put your beliefs into a cultural system that may be obsolete in the next 30 years? Something where right and wrong changes with the current wind.
You can go down the road of "i'll decide what my version of 'good' means", but think about that for one second. Does that even make sense? If there are no absolutes, then there is no real right and wrong? Everyone just decides what is best for them? Everything is relative? And your calling ME a fool?? LOL Have you ever even thought about this subject before??
I'm sorry to hear you are "over a book telling you what to do". So instead of listening to the documented Word of God, inside of Whom the universe is contained, you'd rather tap into the vast resources of deep knowledge inside your mortal human brain. I can see that you are already in over your head in deception just to even think that is wise or noble.
You must have graduated with real honors. After this whole thread the guy asks me how I feel about gay marriage. Sharp as a marble.
If you are describing my hate for evil and sin, yes absolutely! I do hate that which is evil and love that which is good.
Now, I seem to remember respectfully answering your question. Then I asked you one respectfully. No answer?
They demonize themselves. Watch the news much? Come out from under that rock your trapped under. Every day those animals in the middle east can't help but killing each other and spreading their violence across this world. Why dont you go move to Dearborn, Michigan and then let me know how much you love the "peace-loving religion". Yea, Sharia Law in America. Thought the day wouldnt come? It's already here. What kind of Americans ARE you people??? You stomp on what America (in part) was built on, and you stand up for what is trying to kill America. You, we would be better off without.
Why do people become criminals knowing they will risk incarceration and running from law all their lives? Why do people become child molesters? Why do people take human slaves and perform indescribable acts on them? Sin is a powerful adversary and capable of driving ones to this if you let it in.
Donnie- I completeley understand your what you are saying. But, over the past few years I have just come to question a lot of what I have been told /learned regarding relegion. You are no t the one I have an arguement with, its the people who use the bible or a relegion to help spew there hatred and political agendas.
Ya see pirate08 I'm not the kind of person that is ok with someone spewing hate or there wack views like you are. I actually in a sick way feel bad for you. I remember a few weeks back you discussing "false flags" and the government cover up of the boston marathon. You are a nut job, and most likely you would only talk this way on a message board where you can hide behind your user name. I feel sorry for you I truely do.
Ya see pirate08 I'm not the kind of person that is ok with someone spewing hate or there wack views like you are. I actually in a sick way feel bad for you. I remember a few weeks back you discussing "false flags" and the government cover up of the boston marathon. You are a nut job, and most likely you would only talk this way on a message board where you can hide behind your user name. I feel sorry for you I truely do.
I'm the kind of American who respects the freedom of religion, you know, that thing that's part of the first amendment.
Muslims have just as much of a right to their views as you do to your Christian views. I don't agree with Muslims but they have a right to their beliefs.
I am jumping in this a bit late, but some of the comments here are pretty shocking.
People don't choose to be gay. People also don't choose to be straight.
"Muslims" are not turning the world upside down, a few extremists are. And frankly, if you want to find organized violence and hatred, look no further than the crusades. (Not meant as a shot against Catholics, just as a moment to reflect on comments about other religions.)
As far as the exact words of the bible, and sin. The bible is wrong on many things, and many of the teachings in the bible truly make no sense and contradict each other. Some of these teaching and practices that make no sense are ignored or updated by the church; others seem to drag on under the guise of tradition. Perhaps it is time for the church to update its stance on homosexuality. It is time for Vatican iii.
Anyway, that's all I've got.
Edited to fix spelling and paragraph structure.
This post was edited on 5/23 10:43 AM by Pirate Hat
People don't choose to be gay. People also don't choose to be straight.
"Muslims" are not turning the world upside down, a few extremists are. And frankly, if you want to find organized violence and hatred, look no further than the crusades. (Not meant as a shot against Catholics, just as a moment to reflect on comments about other religions.)
As far as the exact words of the bible, and sin. The bible is wrong on many things, and many of the teachings in the bible truly make no sense and contradict each other. Some of these teaching and practices that make no sense are ignored or updated by the church; others seem to drag on under the guise of tradition. Perhaps it is time for the church to update its stance on homosexuality. It is time for Vatican iii.
Anyway, that's all I've got.
Edited to fix spelling and paragraph structure.
This post was edited on 5/23 10:43 AM by Pirate Hat
Hat-
Agree about gay/straight and extremists.
You're wrong regarding the Church's stance on gays. They are fully welcomed, in fact I know one personally with an important role in a former parish.
You're also misled, probably by the mainstream media, or wikipedia, regarding the Cruasdes, which were, in reality, a re-taking of land from the plundering Muslims of the Dark Ages. Even if it were a religious-led massacre, as you suggest, what does that have to do with the legitimacy of the teaching of the modern-day Church?
This post was edited on 5/23 12:08 PM by donnie_baseball
Agree about gay/straight and extremists.
You're wrong regarding the Church's stance on gays. They are fully welcomed, in fact I know one personally with an important role in a former parish.
You're also misled, probably by the mainstream media, or wikipedia, regarding the Cruasdes, which were, in reality, a re-taking of land from the plundering Muslims of the Dark Ages. Even if it were a religious-led massacre, as you suggest, what does that have to do with the legitimacy of the teaching of the modern-day Church?
This post was edited on 5/23 12:08 PM by donnie_baseball
I'm a little confused on this being born gay thing. Can someone show me the scientific proof of this? Did I miss the identification of the specific gay gene? When the basketball player Collins came out; his twin brother who shares 99.9% (? not sure of the exact percentage) of the same DNA is not gay and was quoted as saying he had no clue his twin was.
That being said I don't think scientifically we know 100% either way if someone is born gay or not. There is actually good evidence on both sides of the issue. Everyone is free to have their own opinion on it and make their choices accordingly. If someone is gay, I really don't care nor do I think we should make special exceptions for them because they are gay. I especially believe that religious institutions should not be forced to make exceptions for homosexuals when it goes stricly against their core beliefs.
That being said I don't think scientifically we know 100% either way if someone is born gay or not. There is actually good evidence on both sides of the issue. Everyone is free to have their own opinion on it and make their choices accordingly. If someone is gay, I really don't care nor do I think we should make special exceptions for them because they are gay. I especially believe that religious institutions should not be forced to make exceptions for homosexuals when it goes stricly against their core beliefs.
If you think it is sinful to be gay that is your right and I have no problem with that though I don't agree. What I do have a problem is those who discriminate against against gays and want to deprive them of equal rights. It's really no different than discrimination based on race , religion, ethnicity or gender. Unfortunately too many religions and religious organizations feel that this is their calling.
Tom K
Tom K
That's awesome about your former parish. Unfortunately, there are many parishes and Catholic institutions that aren't welcoming. In my opinion, the U.S. Conference of Bishops and the Vatican make it so gay people won't even try to see if people are welcoming at the parish level.
There are different interpretations of the Crusades and it's impossible to know the "real" story since they took place so long ago. I agree with you completely that the Crusades centuries ago don't impact modern teachings.
Donnie,
My history is a little rusty at this point, but as far as I recall the first crusade was a religiously motivated war which was pushed for by the pope. (Of course with any war there were other just as important influences.) I was taking issue with the "holier than thou" approach against Muslims as a whole, not making a comment on the state of the modern church. I also don't know that I have ever heard mainstream media refer to the crusades in any way.
I am happy that your experience with the church has been positive in regard to homosexuality. In general, this is not true of the church as an institution from the top down, starting with the pope.
My history is a little rusty at this point, but as far as I recall the first crusade was a religiously motivated war which was pushed for by the pope. (Of course with any war there were other just as important influences.) I was taking issue with the "holier than thou" approach against Muslims as a whole, not making a comment on the state of the modern church. I also don't know that I have ever heard mainstream media refer to the crusades in any way.
I am happy that your experience with the church has been positive in regard to homosexuality. In general, this is not true of the church as an institution from the top down, starting with the pope.
Any gay person? Come on 09 you are better then that. I can introduce you to gay people that I know that had something happen to them in their past and now they chose to be romantically involved with the same gender. I'm just saying before we start killing each other because we are on opposite sides of the issue we need to stop and realize that we probably don't have all the facts. I think the funniest thing is the people that are screaming for tolerance are often the most intollerant of people that disagree with them (and I don't mean you 09, we've been discussing things on this board for years and I respect you).
The reason I know that it is not a choice is that I have absolutely no physical attraction to men. I can't choose to be gay.
I suppose there are people out there that are attracted to both and it is indeed a choice for them, but we should also acknowledge that some people will just not be physically attracted to the opposite sex.
I would have probably preferred to be gay after dating a few crazy girls in a row... and to think, instead of someone complaining about how interest we are in video games, sports, beer etc... we could have just "chosen" to date a dude who is into all of those things? Who wouldn't make that "choice"?
Wouldn't people who say it is a choice be acknowledging that are attracted to men but choose not to act on it?
I suppose there are people out there that are attracted to both and it is indeed a choice for them, but we should also acknowledge that some people will just not be physically attracted to the opposite sex.
I would have probably preferred to be gay after dating a few crazy girls in a row... and to think, instead of someone complaining about how interest we are in video games, sports, beer etc... we could have just "chosen" to date a dude who is into all of those things? Who wouldn't make that "choice"?
Wouldn't people who say it is a choice be acknowledging that are attracted to men but choose not to act on it?
Hat....when I was born I wasn't thinking about guys or girls sexually....took a few years before sexuality was even a consideration for me.
I understand you guys think all gay people are born that way but when you use an all encompassing word like all you set yourself up for failure.
Let me give you an example which you can pick apart. I know a girl who liked men from her teens into her 30's (straight). Wouldn't even get drunk in a bar and makeout with other girls as some do these days. She was raped by a man. Long story short now she only gets sexually intimate with women (gay). Now was she born gay? Did something happen to her to make her gay? Is she not really gay but only has trust issues now? I don't guys I don't have all the answers but I can tell you this; I don't believe that she was born gay.
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