Griner says Baylor told her to keep her homosexuality private

[donnie_baseball]

Originally posted by Pirate Hat:
Donnie,

My history is a little rusty at this point, but as far as I recall the first crusade was a religiously motivated war which was pushed for by the pope. (Of course with any war there were other just as important influences.) I was taking issue with the "holier than thou" approach against Muslims as a whole, not making a comment on the state of the modern church. I also don't know that I have ever heard mainstream media refer to the crusades in any way.

I am happy that your experience with the church has been positive in regard to homosexuality. In general, this is not true of the church as an institution from the top down, starting with the pope.

On your first paragraph: technically, Christian "states," with the backing of Urban I, responding to the Muslims overpowering the Byzantines and controlling the Holy Land. Not a scourging, or mass conversion, rather a re-taking of land (ultimately unsucessful) from the Muslims.

On the second paragraph: I believe it is changing, slowly. I heard a sermon a couple of weeks ago, and we have an excellent old Irish Monsignor at our Parish, stressing that it is important to accept homosexuals for who they are; we don't have to condone same sex marriage, but accept the person. I hope it changes.

As a Catholic, I do not agree with 08. His theology is correct, but he is an extremist himself, of sorts. I respect his knowledge, and admire the culture warriors, I just don't think the war is won with the rhetoric of literalism.

 

[SHUBigT]

Originally posted by Merge:

Originally posted by SHUBigT:

Originally posted by Pirate Hat:
SHUBigT,

When did you make the decision to be straight? Or were you born that way?

Hat....when I was born I wasn't thinking about guys or girls sexually....took a few years before sexuality was even a consideration for me.

I understand you guys think all gay people are born that way but when you use an all encompassing word like all you set yourself up for failure.

Let me give you an example which you can pick apart. I know a girl who liked men from her teens into her 30's (straight). Wouldn't even get drunk in a bar and makeout with other girls as some do these days. She was raped by a man. Long story short now she only gets sexually intimate with women (gay). Now was she born gay? Did something happen to her to make her gay? Is she not really gay but only has trust issues now? I don't guys I don't have all the answers but I can tell you this; I don't believe that she was born gay.

I don't think anyone would suggest what you posted is not possible, although it does not explain the millions of people who did not experience a traumatic event and are still attracted to members of the same sex.

Merge....that is kinda my point. Some people in this thread were admonishing those of us who do not believe that ALL gay people are born gay. I believe someone even said that nobody would willingly chose the homosexual lifestyle. If you look at it from a logical standpoint probably most gay people are born that way but some do chose it.

 

[batts]

Originally posted by Pirate Hat:

I am jumping in this a bit late, but some of the comments here are pretty shocking.

People don't choose to be gay. People also don't choose to be straight.

"Muslims" are not turning the world upside down, a few extremists are. And frankly, if you want to find organized violence and hatred, look no further than the crusades. (Not meant as a shot against Catholics, just as a moment to reflect on comments about other religions.)


As far as the exact words of the bible, and sin. The bible is wrong on many things, and many of the teachings in the bible truly make no sense and contradict each other. Some of these teaching and practices that make no sense are ignored or updated by the church; others seem to drag on under the guise of tradition. Perhaps it is time for the church to update its stance on homosexuality. It is time for Vatican iii.

Anyway, that's all I've got.

Edited to fix spelling and paragraph structure.

This post was edited on 5/23 10:43 AM by Pirate Hat

I agree with Pirate Hat and 6711.

People of my generation were taught to believe that homosexuals were deviants and sinners. Now, I could care less about someone's sexuality. It's something you are born with. It's really none of my business.

Only a small percentage of Muslims are evil extremists. It's unfair to label all Muslims in that light.

I'm not sure whether I believe in God, but I definitely don't believe in organized religion. There's really not much in the Bible that I believe. I regard it as mythology (not in a bad sense), but in the sense that humankind throughout the ages needed to rationalize about fear, death and suffering. Common story lines in the Bible have also been found in various ancient cultures aside from the Hebrews. The writings of Joseph Campbell present an interesting analysis of this theory.

I agree with JCalz's philosophy about trying to do the right thing by people.

 

[donnie_baseball]

Originally posted by batts:
I'm not sure whether I believe in God, but I definitely don't believe in organized religion. There's really not much in the Bible that I believe. I regard it as mythology (not in a bad sense), but in the sense that humankind throughout the ages needed to rationalize about fear, death and suffering. Common story lines in the Bible have also been found in various ancient cultures aside from the Hebrews. The writings of Joseph Campbell present an interesting analysis of this theory.

I agree with JCalz's philosophy about trying to do the right thing by people.

The one huge difference between the mythology of the ancients, which you conveniently omit: Christ actually existed. The Jewish historians of the time confirm this.

As far as borrowing from previous cultures, well, you do that on a daily basis, starting with your derived language.

 

[batts]

Originally posted by donnie_baseball:

Originally posted by batts:
I'm not sure whether I believe in God, but I definitely don't believe in organized religion. There's really not much in the Bible that I believe. I regard it as mythology (not in a bad sense), but in the sense that humankind throughout the ages needed to rationalize about fear, death and suffering. Common story lines in the Bible have also been found in various ancient cultures aside from the Hebrews. The writings of Joseph Campbell present an interesting analysis of this theory.

I agree with JCalz's philosophy about trying to do the right thing by people.

The one huge difference between the mythology of the ancients, which you conveniently omit: Christ actually existed. The Jewish historians of the time confirm this.

As far as borrowing from previous cultures, well, you do that on a daily basis, starting with your derived language.

Actually, whether Christ existed or not is open to historical debate. I'm not,however, arguing that he did not exist. I'm just not sure one way or the other. As far as the Old Testament is concerned, I remember reading an article that indicated that archeologists had not yet found any evidence that the Hebrews were ever living in Egypt during the time of Moses and beyond.

I think that Campbell found remarkable similarities between stories of early American Indians and the Old Testament.

 

[donnie_baseball]

Originally posted by batts:

Originally posted by donnie_baseball:

Originally posted by batts:
I'm not sure whether I believe in God, but I definitely don't believe in organized religion. There's really not much in the Bible that I believe. I regard it as mythology (not in a bad sense), but in the sense that humankind throughout the ages needed to rationalize about fear, death and suffering. Common story lines in the Bible have also been found in various ancient cultures aside from the Hebrews. The writings of Joseph Campbell present an interesting analysis of this theory.

I agree with JCalz's philosophy about trying to do the right thing by people.

The one huge difference between the mythology of the ancients, which you conveniently omit: Christ actually existed. The Jewish historians of the time confirm this.

As far as borrowing from previous cultures, well, you do that on a daily basis, starting with your derived language.

Actually, whether Christ existed or not is open to historical debate. I'm not,however, arguing that he did not exist. I'm just not sure one way or the other. As far as the Old Testament is concerned, I remember reading an article that indicated that archeologists had not yet found any evidence that the Hebrews were ever living in Egypt during the time of Moses and beyond.

I think that Campbell found remarkable similarities between stories of early American Indians and the Old Testament.

No debate. Hebrew scholars, who believe the Messiah is yet to come, acknowledge the existence of Jesus of Nazareth. I've only read Campbell's _The Masks of God_, and think it is a great work; I don't think his work calls Christianity into question, or any other religion for that matter, rather it explores the nature of faith, and how different faiths are drawn to the same Creator.
This post was edited on 6/7 8:18 AM by donnie_baseball

 

[jcalz88]

I just stumbled back upon this thread and my mind is still BLOWN..