Those of you throwing flowers at the President for this Summit, how is it going now? As my first post on this subject stated, that nothing was done except make America look weaker and give Un equal footing with the US. Un would rather go to a potato farm than meet Pompeo. What a snub! How embarrassing!
How's The North Korean Summit Going Now?
- Thread starter cernjSHU
- Start date
Got your MSNBC talking points down. I don't recall anyone spiking the football after the summit. How does he have equal footing? Let's review:
1) Three hostages were returned.
2) Un has also had meetings with Moon and Xi in addition to Trump. Does SK and China look weaker?
3) Abe has been complementary of Trump/US strategy.
4) NK has agreed to return remains of US soldiers.
5) The summit took place and an agreement that included denuking was signed. (Yes, it has to be enforced with a treaty, but you have to start with an agreement).
6) Sanctions are still in place.
7) NK did blow up a missile site (we can debate whether it was active or not).
8) The NK missile launches have stopped completely.
9) There was a follow-up meeting within 30 days of the summit (Pompeo).
I'm sure I've missed a few, but those are tangible facts. Please list the tangible accomplishments of the previous three Presidents when you have some time. Or continue with the silly comments about Un blowing off Pompeo.
Still along way from the objective, but please try to BE objective.
There's a very long way to go with North Korea. The summit and this visit were only the beginning stages of a long process. I think most people with common sense understand that.
Others just spout hysteria to call attention to themselves. Stop listening to the propagandists and entertainers on cable "news."
Others just spout hysteria to call attention to themselves. Stop listening to the propagandists and entertainers on cable "news."
North Korea issued a statement after the most recent meeting with Secretary of State Pompeo. I was able to find what I believe to be an accurate translation
https://kcnawatch.co/newstream/1531000080-429116112/fm-spokesman-on-dprk-u-s-high-level-talks/
The passage that included the phrase "gangster-like" is as follows
Chairman
Kim Jong Un expressed his expectation and conviction that good personal relations forged with President Trump and his sentiments of good faith built towards the latter at the Singapore summit and talks would be further consolidated through the process of future dialogues such as high-level talks this time.
But, the U.S. side came up only with its unilateral and gangster-like demand for denuclearization just calling for CVID, declaration and verification, all of which run counter to the spirit of the Singapore summit meeting and talks.
https://kcnawatch.co/newstream/1531000080-429116112/fm-spokesman-on-dprk-u-s-high-level-talks/
The passage that included the phrase "gangster-like" is as follows
Chairman
Kim Jong Un expressed his expectation and conviction that good personal relations forged with President Trump and his sentiments of good faith built towards the latter at the Singapore summit and talks would be further consolidated through the process of future dialogues such as high-level talks this time.
But, the U.S. side came up only with its unilateral and gangster-like demand for denuclearization just calling for CVID, declaration and verification, all of which run counter to the spirit of the Singapore summit meeting and talks.
We will see if this happens or not, but it will definitely be a long process that will not happen overnight, even if North Korea is truly on board. Going to be a lot of rhetoric back and forth in the meantime I would expect.
What I heard and found interesting is that as part of the agreement, North Korea wants an official treaty signed ending the war, and since there is no movement on that front they are unwilling to move ahead with their end of talking about denuclearazation. The question is does the Trump administration have the ability to get S Korea to agree to ending the war.
I believe 10 US hostages were released from North Korea while Obama was president.
I don't believe we gave up anything to get them.
I've approached NK with skepticism because they have earned that through their actions and various meetings with US officials over the years.
I wasn't against the talks as we will get no where without talking, but at the end of the day what did NK want?
They want the US to stop military exercises and to get the US out of SK.
What did we give them? We gave them their propaganda piece of Un meeting with the US President - Something NK has been looking for for decades, and we stopped our military exercises with South Korea which surprised South Korea and US officials. Per reporting at the time, Putin suggested this to Trump to solve the North Korean nuclear problem back in January I think.
We offered a concession without getting anything in return other than three hostages who would have been released without giving up the military exercises.
So who has the leverage now?
North Korea (and Russia) got what they wanted. Trump declared that they were no longer a nuclear threat and we have no way to verify that they are aiming to denuclearize, only recent reports of satellite images suggesting they are continuing to upgrade a hidden nuclear facility.
As far as political strategy going forward, Trump is now in a difficult position and NK has the leverage now.
If their next demand is that we get out of SK, how do we respond?
Max Boot, a member of the council of foreign relations and a liberal by no means...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...6cb43e3f306_story.html?utm_term=.8d34115eb919
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...6cb43e3f306_story.html?utm_term=.8d34115eb919
The DPRK statement specifically mentions ending the Korean Conflict. The quote is as follow
"The U.S. side never mentioned the issue of establishing a peace regime on the Korean peninsula which is essential for defusing tension and preventing a war. It took the position that it would even backtrack on the issue it had agreed on to end the status of war under certain conditions and excuses.
As for the issue of announcing the declaration of the end of war at an early date, it is the first process of defusing tension and establishing a lasting peace regime on the Korean peninsula, and at the same time, it constitutes a first factor in creating trust between the DPRK and the U.S. This issue was also stipulated in Panmunjom Declaration as a historical task to terminate the war status on the Korean peninsula which continues for nearly 70 years. President Trump, too, was more enthusiastic about this issue at the DPRK-U.S. summit talks."
The CFR? Really? LOL
Anything they say has to be taken with a grain of salt. A globalist, establishment think tank. Totally useless.
The CFR promotes the establishment because their members benefit from it....perpetual war, military-industrial complex, no breakthroughs with adversaries, etc. Basically everything Trump was elected to change. They are the swamp and have infiltrated all different areas of society. Politics, media, etc. Do some research.
None of the sanctions have been lifted. That's where the leverage is.
Suspension of military exercises is something that was likely done for a good faith show. You can start those back up immediately. I'm certainly not claiming any Trump victory here, but there has been progress and a process has been established. To discount all of that and suggest Kim has gotten a big win is silly.
The DPRK would agree with your assessment. Here is the quote from them regarding the exercises
"The U.S. side, during the talks, made a great publicity about suspension of one or two joint military exercises. But suspension of one action called exercises is a highly reversible step which can be resumed anytime at any moment as all of its military force remains intact in its previously-held positions without scraping even a rifle. This is incomparable with the irreversible step taken by the DPRK to explode and dismantle the nuclear test ground."
I don't really disagree, but we have been here before with NK and we gave up less every other time.
Sure we could just start up military exercises back up again, but what kind of message does that send to NK and the rest of the world? I don't think it is nearly as simple as you are suggesting.
We could still move in positive or negative direction from here. My skepticism remains and I do not believe NK has any intention of dismantling their nuclear arsenal, and their next pitch will be the removal of sanctions and the US leaving South Korea.
Who said it was simple? This is going to be a long and complex process (with lots of rhetoric and posturing on both sides like the example that knowknow posted above), and we should all be skeptical of NK and Kim. IMO, the sanctions are what has brought Kim to the table, rather than a bunch of PR photos with Xi, Moon and Trump. Time will tell whether this plan pays off, but you have to admit some of the nay-saying crap is just that. Just be objective. Recognize that some progress has occurred and hope for it to continue in a positive way and get the end result.
Please be objective yourself that any progress is at best de minimus. As I have stated earlier, Un will not provoke a war with the US or her allies because that means his destruction. The saber rattling is all what that is. He wants his nuclear weapons so that he can keep his regime from being toppled by the US. What Un has done is "rational" in self preservation of his position as the leader of N. Korea. Trump's position of meeting with Un without getting any concessions out of him is simply a diplomatic failure of the highest order. We can wait and see the final result, but nothing will come of this.
Once again, I am not predicting any victory, but what would you do? Also, if by chance Trump a successful will you admit to being completely wrong?
You really think we got nothing out of NK?[/QUOTE]
We got nothing but embarrassed. Yes go back to my first post on this thread. Nothing has changed my mind.
How would you characterize getting our soldiers remains back last night? De minimus? Nothing? Embarrassing?
I call it another incremental and material step in a very long process.
Great to get the bodies back. As I said in an earlier post, this will be the only thing that we get. This cost the N Koreans absolutely nothing. Now, back to the big picture, NK disarming their nukes. It won’t happen.
I think one of the problems we have as a nation is the so called "whataboutism". Sometimes events have to be taken as stand alone items. It is true that a single data point is part of the larger narrative but I believe it is ok to acknowledge the single points along the way.
Specifically, it is a good thing the hostages are back and it is a good thing North Korea returned the remains of some of our serviceman.
Specifically, it is a good thing the hostages are back and it is a good thing North Korea returned the remains of some of our serviceman.
Amen. It's also a good thing, in a broader sense, that an effort to find a diplomatic solution is merely being attempted.
