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Is the United States ready for another Kent State moment?

HALL85 said:
Because what we are witnessing now are crystal clear examples of anti-semitism by the protesters.

I never referred to any specific story, but are you denying that babies were murdered in horrific ways?

Apples and oranges. Israel was attacked. It is their war to fight (like Ukraine). And our decision to support with humanitarian or military aid.
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Show me the examples of antisemitism that you're referring to.

I'm not denying that children and even babies were murdered on October 7th by Hamas, but are you going to deny that the Israeli army isn't killing Palestinian civilians, including women and children, on a much larger scale than what happened on October 7th?
 
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Robot_Man said:
Show me the examples of antisemitism that you're referring to.

I'm not denying that children and even babies were murdered on October 7th by Hamas, but are you going to deny that the Israeli army isn't killing Palestinian civilians, including women and children, on a much larger scale than what happened on October 7th?
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There is an huge difference between the unprovoked rape slaughter of innocent women and children and a military response that has resulted in civilian deaths that are only occurring because Hamas is using them as human shields and refusing to surrender and return the hostages. If you can’t see that basic difference, I can’t help you.
 
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HALL85 said:
There is an huge difference between the unprovoked rape slaughter of innocent women and children and a military response that has resulted in civilian deaths that are only occurring because Hamas is using them as human shields and refusing to surrender and return the hostages. If you can’t see that basic difference, I can’t help you.
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Robot_Man proving to be a brainwashed terrorist sympathizer.
 
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HALL85 said:
There is an huge difference between the unprovoked rape slaughter of innocent women and children and a military response that has resulted in civilian deaths that are only occurring because Hamas is using them as human shields and refusing to surrender and return the hostages. If you can’t see that basic difference, I can’t help you.
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Israel was right to to after Hamas without a doubt.

Question though, what is Israel trying to accomplish now? What is Israel's plan for a post war future?
What is the cost in human lives that are worth that goal?

Those answers are not clear in my opinion and why Israel is losing support the longer this goes on.
 
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Merge said:
Israel was right to to after Hamas without a doubt.

Question though, what is Israel trying to accomplish now? What is Israel's plan for a post war future?
What is the cost in human lives that are worth that goal?

Those answers are not clear in my opinion and why Israel is losing support the longer this goes on.
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Haven’t the objectives been stated enough? Hamas surrender and return of the hostages. I think that’s pretty clear.

Cost of human lives? That has to be measured each day by Israel and Hamas. There is no finite answer. Every country that’s ever been at war needs to weigh that. What was the cost of human lives at Hiroshima?

Also up to Israel and Palestinians to figure out the post war plan. How the conflict ends will impact that outcome so difficult to answer that now.

What does Hamas stand to gain by attacks on the relief pier?
 
HALL85 said:
Haven’t the objectives been stated enough? Hamas surrender and return of the hostages. I think that’s pretty clear.
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Hamas offered a release of hostages for a permanent ceasefire and withdrawal of troops which Israel rejected. Israel is now offering a 40 day ceasefire. Remains to be seen what will happen but, I don't think it's as simple as this ending with the release of hostages. I don't think either side will ever agree to what the other side wants in the broader picture.

HALL85 said:
Cost of human lives? That has to be measured each day by Israel and Hamas. There is no finite answer. Every country that’s ever been at war needs to weigh that. What was the cost of human lives at Hiroshima?
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That's the point though. It is being weighed and Israel is starting to lose public support because of that toll. Just like the US faced similar types of criticism in Iraq or Afghanistan.

HALL85 said:
Also up to Israel and Palestinians to figure out the post war plan. How the conflict ends will impact that outcome so difficult to answer that now.
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Right, it's on them but that should be a part of the discussion now, and not having a post war plan hurts the perception against Israel that they don't have a plan for peaceful coexistence after this is over.

HALL85 said:
What does Hamas stand to gain by attacks on the relief pier?
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Chaos. They're terrorists.
 
Merge said:
Hamas offered a release of hostages for a permanent ceasefire and withdrawal of troops which Israel rejected. Israel is now offering a 40 day ceasefire. Remains to be seen what will happen but, I don't think it's as simple as this ending with the release of hostages. I don't think either side will ever agree to what the other side wants in the broader picture.
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A cease-fire is not surrender.
Merge said:
That's the point though. It is being weighed and Israel is starting to lose public support because of that toll. Just like the US faced similar types of criticism in Iraq or Afghanistan.
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Yes, that is the point. It’s Israel’s problem to manage. Not ours.
Merge said:
Right, it's on them but that should be a part of the discussion now, and not having a post war plan hurts the perception against Israel that they don't have a plan for peaceful coexistence after this is over.
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Why should it be part of discussion now when we don’t know where the conflict will end up? Tipping your hand while you were trying to achieve your immediate objective may not be the best strategy.
Merge said:
Chaos. They're terrorists.
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Which is why we should be supporting Israel.
 
HALL85 said:
Yes, that is the point. It’s Israel’s problem to manage. Not ours.
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Of course it's our problem.
If not for the US, there would be no Israel as it exists today. If things escalate, we’ll be there fighting too.

HALL85 said:
Why should it be part of discussion now when we don’t know where the conflict will end up? Tipping your hand while you were trying to achieve your immediate objective may not be the best strategy.
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A plan for the future is not tipping your hand about what your current objective is. They need to fight against the perception that Israel will take over and permanently occupy Gaza.

They need to figure out a way to convince others that’s not going to happen and have Palestinians turn against hamas.
 
Merge said:
Of course it's our problem.
If not for the US, there would be no Israel as it exists today. If things escalate, we’ll be there fighting too.



A plan for the future is not tipping your hand about what your current objective is. They need to fight against the perception that Israel will take over and permanently occupy Gaza.

They need to figure out a way to convince others that’s not going to happen and have Palestinians turn against hamas.
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Talking about a future plan is a distraction from solving the immediate problem at hand. Palestinians put Hamas in power and prefer a more radical leader. All the energy now needs to be focused on return of the hostages and surrender.

Netanyahu will likely be done after the conflict is over, so it will be up to his successor to broker a long term solution.
 
Robot_Man said:
How so?


A couple things:
1. The "atrocities committed against babies by Palestinians." If this is referring to the story about 40 beheaded babies on October 7th, that story has been thoroughly debunked. Par for the course for a government that regularly hyperbolizes and makes things up to justify their actions. And here is another example of supporters of Israel not distinguishing between Palestinians and Hamas.
2. How did the US bombing the hell out of Afghanistan after 9/11 work out for the US, or for Afghanistan?



Deliberately ignoring the difference between Hamas and Palestinian civilians is basically textbook racism, and it's something that an IDF soldier admitted that the army is doing:
View embedded media



What about the Nakba and the Naksa? You want to tell me some more about the history of this conflict?
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Robotman, I would like to speak directly to you.

1) Palestinians purposefully murders civilian which included babies and women and men. Are you saying these are not atrocities because the babies were not beheaded? To me the purposeful slaughter of people are an atrocity. No need for hyperbole.
2) I think that after 9/11, we should have gone in full force into Tora Bora. the mistake in Afghanistan was Trump making a deal with the Taliban to get out of the country and Biden going through with it. Not the bombing of AlQaeda and the Taliban. That was good.
3) It seems you are so sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. However, the Palestinians never had a homeland. The Ottoman Empire ruled that land for centered before England took it over. As far as the displacement of Palestinians during the establishment of Israel, the UN established borders where Israel would get 56% of the land and the rest would go to Palestine. The Arab Leaguer rejected these borders.

3) Israel was then attacked and the defeated the combined Arab forces.
And what you call Nakba which is where Palestinians had to move out of lands captured by Israel AFTER they were attacked. Then in 1967, the Arabs attacked Israel again. Israel beats back the aggressor Arab states once again capturing more territory which further reduced Palestinian land and the result was more Palestinians being displaced. So Arabs attacked Israel. Arabs lose. Palestinians then complain about losing and losing their lands. Each time after being the initial aggressors, the Arabs and Palestinians have lost every battle and war. Then they complain that they are the victims.

Here is a good article about Bill Clinton and the closest to peace that has ever been in the region. And guess who rejected peace. Yes the Palestinians. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/12/opinion/israel-palestinians-gaza-peace.html

4) As far as you trying to throw the racist word out there, I find it the last gasp argument. Hamas was voted in by nearly 50% of the population of Palestine. The other half was more moderate and voted for the PLO, Not the bastion of liberalism.

5) as far as 9/11 goes, Palestinians celebrated in the streets of Gaza. . Perhaps you are too young to remember 9/11. But I remember and I will always remember how the Palestinians celebrated 9/11. Not Hamas but regular Palestinians civilians. We Americans should never forget what they actually think of us. They cheered when those planes were hijacked and crashed into the WTC and Pentagon. And this are the people who there college students are protesting for? It is mind boggling.

6) You want to talk about how far Netanyahu is prosecuting the war. Well that is up for debate. I have no issue with people who want peace. But to be Pro-Palestinian is to be anti American.
 
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HALL85 said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68871751
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It is revealing that your examples of antisemitism by protesters are not examples, but statements by politicians, who also don't cite any actual examples, in an article that doesn't cite any actual examples.

shu09 said:
Robot_Man proving to be a brainwashed terrorist sympathizer.
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Hamas is an awful organization, full stop. Israel made a conscious choice to prop them up in the region and Netanyahu's governments over the years did the same. Are they terrorist sympathizers? Because they're most responsible for Hamas's continued existence.

They created this monster, and they even had intelligence that turned out to be eerily similar to what actually took place on October 7th. A total catastrophic failure from a coalition led by a man who knows his indictment proceedings are kept at bay as long as this war goes on.

cernjSHU said:
Robotman, I would like to speak directly to you.

1) Palestinians purposefully murders civilian which included babies and women and men. Are you saying these are not atrocities because the babies were not beheaded? To me the purposeful slaughter of people are an atrocity. No need for hyperbole.
2) I think that after 9/11, we should have gone in full force into Tora Bora. the mistake in Afghanistan was Trump making a deal with the Taliban to get out of the country and Biden going through with it. Not the bombing of AlQaeda and the Taliban. That was good.
3) It seems you are so sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. However, the Palestinians never had a homeland. The Ottoman Empire ruled that land for centered before England took it over. As far as the displacement of Palestinians during the establishment of Israel, the UN established borders where Israel would get 56% of the land and the rest would go to Palestine. The Arab Leaguer rejected these borders.

3) Israel was then attacked and the defeated the combined Arab forces.
And what you call Nakba which is where Palestinians had to move out of lands captured by Israel AFTER they were attacked. Then in 1967, the Arabs attacked Israel again. Israel beats back the aggressor Arab states once again capturing more territory which further reduced Palestinian land and the result was more Palestinians being displaced. So Arabs attacked Israel. Arabs lose. Palestinians then complain about losing and losing their lands. Each time after being the initial aggressors, the Arabs and Palestinians have lost every battle and war. Then they complain that they are the victims.

Here is a good article about Bill Clinton and the closest to peace that has ever been in the region. And guess who rejected peace. Yes the Palestinians. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/12/opinion/israel-palestinians-gaza-peace.html

4) As far as you trying to throw the racist word out there, I find it the last gasp argument. Hamas was voted in by nearly 50% of the population of Palestine. The other half was more moderate and voted for the PLO, Not the bastion of liberalism.

5) as far as 9/11 goes, Palestinians celebrated in the streets of Gaza.
View embedded media
. Perhaps you are too young to remember 9/11. But I remember and I will always remember how the Palestinians celebrated 9/11. Not Hamas but regular Palestinians civilians. We Americans should never forget what they actually think of us. They cheered when those planes were hijacked and crashed into the WTC and Pentagon. And this are the people who there college students are protesting for? It is mind boggling.

6) You want to talk about how far Netanyahu is prosecuting the war. Well that is up for debate. I have no issue with people who want peace. But to be Pro-Palestinian is to be anti American.
Click to expand...
A lot to unpack here.

1) Do you deny that Israel has committed atrocities against Palestinian civilians, and has killed at least 30x as many people as were killed on October 7th? By the way, women and children reportedly make up 73% of the total victim count, as of April 20th.

2) Did you want to stay in Afghanistan forever?

3) Palestinians "had to move out" is a real anodyne way to describe ethnic cleansing. In each of these "displacements," Israel was never at fault at any point in time. That is a lot of history being conveniently rewritten . You make it seem like they were unreasonable for taking issue with a plan that gave them only 44% of the land despite the Palestinian Arab population doubling the Jewish population at the time. Wow, I can't believe they thought that that was a bad deal for them! And that's not an article, it's an opinion piece by the awful David Brooks.

4) Israel played a crucial role in making Hamas powerful enough to just barely win an election in 2006. This is not a conspiracy theory, it's well documented. If not for Israel's influence, Palestine would have had a more secular government. They're responsible for the rise of Hamas.

5) Respectfully, this is propaganda, and it was incredibly effective. We wouldn't have waged two costly, disastrous, unnecessary wars in the middle east without it. Yes, I'm old enough to remember 9/11.

6) On how far Netanyahu is going: it's ethnic cleansing. They've done it before and they're doing it again, and it tracks with what David Ben-Gurion said when he argued for accepting the UN Partition Plan for Palestine: "I see in the realisation of this plan practically the decisive stage in the beginning of full redemption and the most wonderful lever for the gradual conquest of all of Palestine." That's what it has always been about.
 
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Robot_Man said:
A lot to unpack here.

1) Do you deny that Israel has committed atrocities against Palestinian civilians, and has killed at least 30x as many people as were killed on October 7th? By the way, women and children reportedly make up 73% of the total victim count, as of April 20th.

2) Did you want to stay in Afghanistan forever?

3) Palestinians "had to move out" is a real anodyne way to describe ethnic cleansing. In each of these "displacements," Israel was never at fault at any point in time. That is a lot of history being conveniently rewritten . You make it seem like they were unreasonable for taking issue with a plan that gave them only 44% of the land despite the Palestinian Arab population doubling the Jewish population at the time. Wow, I can't believe they thought that that was a bad deal for them! And that's not an article, it's an opinion piece by the awful David Brooks.

4) Israel played a crucial role in making Hamas powerful enough to just barely win an election in 2006. This is not a conspiracy theory, it's well documented. If not for Israel's influence, Palestine would have had a more secular government. They're responsible for the rise of Hamas.

5) Respectfully, this is propaganda, and it was incredibly effective. We wouldn't have waged two costly, disastrous, unnecessary wars in the middle east without it. Yes, I'm old enough to remember 9/11.

6) On how far Netanyahu is going: it's ethnic cleansing. They've done it before and they're doing it again, and it tracks with what David Ben-Gurion said when he argued for accepting the UN Partition Plan for Palestine: "I see in the realisation of this plan practically the decisive stage in the beginning of full redemption and the most wonderful lever for the gradual conquest of all of Palestine." That's what it has always been about.
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1) Israel is fighting a war against a terrorist group that hides itself within a civilian population. Reality is that civilians are going to get killed as collateral damage. But that’s not the purpose slaying of those civilians. That’s a big difference and you cannot equate the two. Now, criticisms of Netanyahu are certainly valid. He is part of the reason why this is so bad and needs to be removed. Allowing Jewish settlements in the West Bank is wrong. I will agree with mist criticisms with Netanyahu. He has a lot to answer for.

2) stay in Afghanistan with a small force to stop the Taliban and prop up the Afghan government for another decade for sure.

3) Palestine never existed. They were offered a huge chunk of land and refused. Bad choice on their part and despite them being aggressors in wars should they not have lost all their land? Such is what happens in war. You keep ignoring the fact that want the entire piece of land with no exisitence of Israel. To the River to the Sea is the chat which mean no Israel. So you believe Israel should wiped away for Palestinians?

4) it’s not propaganda. Palestinians cheered 9/11. That is what the population thinks of the US and you ignore it. Last week In Dearborn Michigan with its high population of Palestinians they were chanting “Death to America”. That’s in our country! Don’t tell me they are not anti-American.

5) total conquest of land could have been done many times by Israel but they kept giving up land back to the Palestinians. Any other country would have annexed the entire amount of land by now.

6) in college I was sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. But once they turned down the two state solution with Bill Clinton, I realized that they never want peace until Israel exists no more.
 
Date: April 8, 2024 at 12:19:31 PM EDTTo: consular.newyork@dfat.gov.auSubject: WCK staff bodies turned into memes by IDF soldiersHello,In the weeks leading up to the murder and memes of the WCK staffers I told all seven CT Congress members repeatedly what the IDF soldiers were posting in terms of war crimes. I pleaded to reign in the behavior daily to my Senators and Representative. I even crashed a party event to tell Rep Himes in person the IDF soldiers were desecrating bodies, and murdering unarmed civilians, and uploading videos and pictures of it. Unfortunately none of them acted in a timely manner and now the WCK staffers bodies have became IDF memes and video too. Two thirds of the content on this Telegram was uploaded prior to the October 7th 2023 attack, and since becoming aware of this behavior I tried to do everything I could to stop it. Unfortunately I did not succeed before the WCK bodies became internet videos and memes too.
 
NYShoreGuy said:
Date: April 8, 2024 at 12:19:31 PM EDTTo: consular.newyork@dfat.gov.auSubject: WCK staff bodies turned into memes by IDF soldiersHello,In the weeks leading up to the murder and memes of the WCK staffers I told all seven CT Congress members repeatedly what the IDF soldiers were posting in terms of war crimes. I pleaded to reign in the behavior daily to my Senators and Representative. I even crashed a party event to tell Rep Himes in person the IDF soldiers were desecrating bodies, and murdering unarmed civilians, and uploading videos and pictures of it. Unfortunately none of them acted in a timely manner and now the WCK staffers bodies have became IDF memes and video too. Two thirds of the content on this Telegram was uploaded prior to the October 7th 2023 attack, and since becoming aware of this behavior I tried to do everything I could to stop it. Unfortunately I did not succeed before the WCK bodies became internet videos and memes too.
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Not a peep about any of this from anyone on here. Israel can do no wrong, after all.

Last night:
 
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Merge said:
I don't believe they necessarily started that way, but that is a hard point to argue against with some of the clips circulating now.
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Simmering but eventually people can’t help themselves and show their true colors.
 
SPK145 said:
I think it’s more anti-Israel fed by politicians and their media stooges.

Thanks Chuck Schumer, see what you’ve done.
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What are you talking about? Congress and the White House have been almost universally supportive of Israel the entire time, and seem apprehensive to so much as mildly criticize their actions.

Also, here is Israel's finance minister, and de facto governor of the West Bank, calling for the "total annihilation of Gaza" in a speech delivered yesterday at the Knesset.

www.haaretz.com

Smotrich calls for 'no half measures' in the 'total annihilation' of Gaza

***
www.haaretz.com www.haaretz.com
 
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Pirate crew rule number one: never challenge merge to find a link… Lol
 
This is definitely also catching on like wildfire on college campuses until around May 15th when the kids go back home. Plus the weather is now nicer everywhere. I believe there is a copycat nature to this; Every so-called elite school wants to not be left out and not have a tent city compared to the schools-formerly-known-as-elite. It's like if you're Northwestern, you have to have a tent city because Michigan has one...if you're an Ivy, you have to have one because a few of them popped up, and then the NESCACs who think they are Ivies must do it.

I think what these kids watched that was accepted and encouraged by the Left/Democrats in 2020 is also playing a role. Zero accountability, these kids have never been told NO before. Just like this Fool who was asking for Aid as if she was in Vietnam!
notthebee.com

This is Johannah King-Slutzky, a PhD student studying poetry "through a Marxian lens." She demanded "humanitarian aid" so her comrades wouldn't "die of dehydration and starvation." 😂

The commies ran out of food immediately following their revolution??
notthebee.com notthebee.com

Can we please get an airdrop at Columbia university? We need 900 Acai Bowls, 1300 Impossible Burgers on gluten free bread with sugar free vegan ketchup and 3000 bottles of pH 9.0 electrolyte water. This is urgent!

After May 15th will be phase 2; I think becomes more like Summer 2020 BLM demonstrations in big Democrat cities who tolerate the crime and then it will mirror some rioting and could reach the inevitable looting and crime under the veil of joining a protest.
 
SRoogow said:
Can we please get an airdrop at Columbia university? We need 900 Acai Bowls, 1300 Impossible Burgers on gluten free bread with sugar free vegan ketchup and 3000 bottles of pH 9.0 electrolyte water. This is urgent!
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What, no chicken fingers and juice boxes?
 
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SRoogow said:
This is definitely also catching on like wildfire on college campuses until around May 15th when the kids go back home. Plus the weather is now nicer everywhere. I believe there is a copycat nature to this; Every so-called elite school wants to not be left out and not have a tent city compared to the schools-formerly-known-as-elite. It's like if you're Northwestern, you have to have a tent city because Michigan has one...if you're an Ivy, you have to have one because a few of them popped up, and then the NESCACs who think they are Ivies must do it.

I think what these kids watched that was accepted and encouraged by the Left/Democrats in 2020 is also playing a role. Zero accountability, these kids have never been told NO before. Just like this Fool who was asking for Aid as if she was in Vietnam!
notthebee.com

This is Johannah King-Slutzky, a PhD student studying poetry "through a Marxian lens." She demanded "humanitarian aid" so her comrades wouldn't "die of dehydration and starvation." 😂

The commies ran out of food immediately following their revolution??
notthebee.com notthebee.com

Can we please get an airdrop at Columbia university? We need 900 Acai Bowls, 1300 Impossible Burgers on gluten free bread with sugar free vegan ketchup and 3000 bottles of pH 9.0 electrolyte water. This is urgent!

After May 15th will be phase 2; I think becomes more like Summer 2020 BLM demonstrations in big Democrat cities who tolerate the crime and then it will mirror some rioting and could reach the inevitable looting and crime under the veil of joining a protest.
Click to expand...
Ah yes blame the Democrats for this. Even though these protests are targeting Joe Biden as Genocide Joe.
 
cernjSHU said:
Ah yes blame the Democrats for this. Even though these protests are targeting Joe Biden as Genocide Joe.
Click to expand...
Well who do you think these kids were largely supporting in 2020 and prior to Oct 7th? They may not consider themselves "Democrats" today, but they were very recently and certainly voted that way.
 
cernjSHU said:
Ah yes blame the Democrats for this. Even though these protests are targeting Joe Biden as Genocide Joe.
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And I’m sure if you did a survey of political affiliation of elite school professors you would find them to be overwhelmingly Republican?
 
SRoogow said:
Well who do you think these kids were largely supporting in 2020 and prior to Oct 7th? They may not consider themselves "Democrats" today, but they were very recently and certainly voted that way.
Click to expand...
Most of these kids were not 18 4 years ago and didn’t vote. And regardless of who they voted for, you are blaming Dems for their behavior now. Don’t you get tired of blaming all the worlds ills on Democrats?
 
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shu09 said:
Terrorists in COVID masks. The irony.
Click to expand...
More irony…. The other day they had a video of food being hoisted up on a rope in a crate at Columbia. Kids on the ground couldn’t figure out how to get a pizza in the crate because the box was too big. So much for the Columbia education.
 
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Merge said:
For example.

View embedded media


View embedded media


and the clips blocking access to parts of campus to Jewish students is also very disturbing.
Like how is that helping them?
View embedded media
Click to expand...
First clip is not on a college campus. Second clip is not on a college campus (as far as I can tell), and not even in America.

The third clip is frankly kind of pathetic. The protesters are saying they're not engaging with him, they're blocking everyone, not just people wearing star of David necklaces.

This was not the disruption that the student made it out to be.


And by the way, what happened last night at that UCLA encampment?

 
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Will we ever get rid of college students rioting for a cause many of them can’t explain.Outrage at Israel but no concern for the guys who rape women and cut baby’s heads off.Churchill said it best “If you are not a liberal at 21 you have no heart.If you are not a conservative at 41 you have no brain”
 
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