Jerry’s column. “They’re right”
- Thread starter HallX2
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First off, you're arbitrarily discounting two quad 1 wins of @Butler and @Providence. Those two road wins are better than anything Michigan State had on the road this season. Michigan State three road wins were Maryland, Michigan and Penn State. A real murders row there of mediocrity.
We were 5-8 in Q1 (3-6 in Q1-A), they were 3-9 (2-7 in Q1-A)
We were 9-11 in Q1/Q2, they were 9-14.
We had a strength of record of 37. Theirs is 52.
We were 20-12, they were 19-14 which is both the least number of wins and most losses for an at-large team selected this season.
NET isn't supposed to be a selection tool, only a tool for seeding (at least that's what the metrics bros loved to say all season, but you apparently feel differently).
They may have played a harder non-conference, but they did squat, aside from a neutral court win played in Detroit. Our resume outclasses them at every point.
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winning at Butler is meaningless, it being a Q1 win does not fool anyone..its on the same level of a win at Maryland.
MSU had 15 wins in Q1/2/3, SHU only 11. Their sos non conference crushed yours and do not forget a win over Indiana State who was third team out. A loss to James Madison who was 30-3 isnt bad.
all over your metrics except sor were terrible
but here is the deal..it is michigan state vs shu
its shu getting left out because there were 3-4 bid stealers..that is why, accept that
Get real. Winning at Butler is not the same as winning at Maryland. You glossed over winning at Providence as well. Thanks for the laugh BAC!
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The seed lines are inflated because of the bid stealers. The play-in games are on the 10 line. That means three of the 9's were among the last four byes (with 10-Nevada). The 9's this year are 10's or 11's in a "normal" year.
You do realize that regardless of Maryland being 16-17. They lost a total of 11 games by a score of 6 points or less. If I am not mistaken prior to their last few game meltdown, they were ranked number one in the Big 10 in defensive efficiency.
Butler 68 NET
Maryland 82 NET.
this is why the NET is not a ranking system, but a sorting tool. Butler and Maryland in terms of quality of opponent were very similar this year.
But they said it was Q1 wins. And MSU only had 3.
Do you actually watch the games? Maryland absolutely stinks. They are what their record is. I don't care what some bs NET metric says. Their two best wins are over Illinois and a Nebraska team that couldn't find their way out of a paper bag on the road.
Butler beat Texas Tech and Boise State in the non-conference as well as Marquette and Creighton.
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Remember according to some on this board, I have this secret obsession with hating Kevin Willard. So yes. I have watched a ton of Maryland and Rutgers basketball. Because misery loves company. So why not root from them to lose.
If Kevin’s team could hit the broad side of a barn this season from 3, they would have probably made the NCAA tournament. I think they shot collectively around 27% on the season and were near the bottom of all men’s D1 basketball with that stat.
And since I actually did watch their games, most of those shots were pretty darn wide open.
His team clearly quit on him in the last few, then they trounced Rutgers in the B10 tourney, before laying an egg to Wisconsin (down 81-40 at one point).
But that doesn’t discount that were competitive most times and on the road as well.
Close loses:
@ Minnesota by 3
@ Northwestern by 3
MSU by 2
@ Michigan st by 9
Vs Rutgers by 3
@ Ohio st by 4 (2 OT)
Illinois by 5
@ Wisconsin by 4
Northwestern by 7
Indiana by 5
Two things to end this post.
1. see I said something positive about Kevin.
2. How do you have the audacity to call me out and say “Do I watch the games?” Not trying to be a pompous prick, but I think I have a fairly decent reputation for knowing what I am talking about and normally back up my comments with supporting facts.
Do you just spew s**t back on the internet and think you’re a tough guy because of the words you choose. As Tom normally says to me. “Who peed in your cornflakes today?” Well obviously you did. Apologize to the board in advance for being a little salty today. Not making the tourney still stings.
I deal in reality. Maryland stunk plain and simple. It's about wins and losses, not being competitive in losses in a crappy big Ten or if they made open 3s or their NET.
You can make every excuse and twist reality to somehow argue that beating Maryland was as good a win as beating Butler, but it's not in reality.
I'm not really sure the need for the rant at the end.
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Except when a player on losing team misses 15 minutes in said game, then it doesn’t count.
Right? A teams selection has become about everything but the actual wins and losses on the court. Metrics bros have ruined college basketball.
Left Coast i appreciate you know your stuff. It just blows my mind that margin of victory is even considered. A win is a win, who cares by how much? Often times it is literally end of game nonsense, and it keeps hard working kids who bust their butts in practice off the court when they would be getting a few deserved reps because they may miss a layup and change the final from 10 to 9? That the committee uses margin of victory is a joke.
Can we be far from when covering the spread becomes a factor too?
Can we be far from when covering the spread becomes a factor too?
The comment above has nothing to do with margin of victory. I think we all are getting dizzy over different debates on different evaluation criteria. This is solely to blame on the committee because their answers to questions were so inconsistent.
Bac2theRac clearly was trying to make a point that a Seton Hall win @ Butler compared to a Michigan State win @ Maryland in the eyes of the committee are closer than you realize.
Everyone wants to say Butler was 18-14 and had these quality wins (which they did). Vs Maryland who sucked and finished 16-17.
I don’t believe a specific metric score should determine if a team should get in over another MSU (25) UVA (54) SHU (67) when comparing the NET.
But the concept of the NET is to try and determine if a win @ Butler or a win @ Maryland is comparable or in completely different ballparks.
Not everyone can watch every game or every team throughout the year, so the concept behind metrics is to try and create some comparative buckets of teams. That’s it. Everyone gets so hung up on it beyond that. I really don’t understand why. Maybe it’s just easy to look at a list and complain about the order, cause that’s what we do.
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You guys criticizing BAC are off base. He really is an expert in this stuff. His bracket projection was the 3rd most accurate in the country. Way ahead of Wachtell, Palm, Lunardo, etc. He knows his stuff and knows how the committee thinks. You might not like his message, but it's accurate.
When You are in the BIG (Pre)TEN(d) , you get to play a ton of Teams in the Tournie
When You are in BIG EASt you get to play maybe 2/3 in Tournie :-(
ACC was horrible this year but a back end Virginia gets in over the 4th best team in the Big East? Just terrible. And Dayton - gimme a break. The Committee didn't take a step back to look at what they did and fix it. And the big conferences have the most seats at the table so they were all in on the FB schools. Sad.
And to make matters worse, our Commissioner doesn't stick up for us. Do you think Stankey (SEC) or the ACC or BIG commissioners would have been quiet if their conference got 3 bids? No way. Val really Shit the bed with that late, lame 3 paragraph comment from the league. Rubbed salt in the wound and seemed to blame the BE teams instead of sticking up for the 2nd best conference in the league.
And to make matters worse, our Commissioner doesn't stick up for us. Do you think Stankey (SEC) or the ACC or BIG commissioners would have been quiet if their conference got 3 bids? No way. Val really Shit the bed with that late, lame 3 paragraph comment from the league. Rubbed salt in the wound and seemed to blame the BE teams instead of sticking up for the 2nd best conference in the league.
Judge for yourselves
Kenpom
Kenpom
| Mon Nov 6 | 59 | James Madison | L, 79-76 | OT | Home | 0-1 | ||||
| Thu Nov 9 | 328 | Southern Indiana | W, 74-51 | Home | 1-1 | |||||
| Tue Nov 14 | 8 | Duke | L, 74-65 | Neutral | 1-2 | |||||
| Fri Nov 17 | 67 | Butler | W, 74-54 | Home | 2-2 | |||||
| Sun Nov 19 | 297 | Alcorn St. | W, 81-49 | Home | 3-2 | |||||
| Thu Nov 23 | 6 | Arizona | L, 74-68 | Neutral | 3-3 | |||||
| Tue Nov 28 | 280 | Georgia Southern | W, 86-55 | Home | 4-3 | |||||
| Tue Dec 5 | 17 | Wisconsin | L, 70-57 | Home | 4-4 | 0-1 | ||||
| Sun Dec 10 | 28 | Nebraska | L, 77-70 | Away | 4-5 | 0-2 | ||||
| Sat Dec 16 | 14 | Baylor | W, 88-64 | Semi-Home | 5-5 | |||||
| Mon Dec 18 | 137 | Oakland | W, 79-62 | Home | 6-5 | |||||
| Thu Dec 21 | 171 | Stony Brook | W, 99-55 | Home | 7-5 | |||||
| Sat Dec 30 | 45 | Indiana St. | W, 87-75 | Home | 8-5 | |||||
| Thu Jan 4 | 77 | Penn St. | W, 92-61 | Home | 9-5 | 1-2 | ||||
| Sun Jan 7 | 46 | Northwestern | L, 88-74 | Away | 9-6 | 1-3 | ||||
| Thu Jan 11 | 10 | Illinois | L, 71-68 | Away | 9-7 | 1-4 | ||||
| Sun Jan 14 | 100 | Rutgers | W, 73-55 | Home | 10-7 | 2-4 |
| Thu Jan 18 | 78 | Minnesota | W, 76-66 | Home | 11-7 | 3-4 | ||||
| Sun Jan 21 | 65 | Maryland | W, 61-59 | Away | 12-7 | 4-4 | ||||
| Fri Jan 26 | 17 | Wisconsin | L, 81-66 | Away | 12-8 | 4-5 | ||||
| Tue Jan 30 | 127 | Michigan | W, 81-62 | Home | 13-8 | 5-5 | ||||
| Sat Feb 3 | 65 | Maryland | W, 63-54 | Home | 14-8 | 6-5 | ||||
| Tue Feb 6 | 78 | Minnesota | L, 59-56 | Away | 14-9 | 6-6 | ||||
| Sat Feb 10 | 10 | Illinois | W, 88-80 | Home | 15-9 | 7-6 | ||||
| Wed Feb 14 | 77 | Penn St. | W, 80-72 | Away | 16-9 | 8-6 | ||||
| Sat Feb 17 | 127 | Michigan | W, 73-63 | Away | 17-9 | 9-6 | ||||
| Tue Feb 20 | 52 | Iowa | L, 78-71 | Home | 17-10 | 9-7 | ||||
| Sun Feb 25 | 47 | Ohio St. | L, 60-57 | Home | 17-11 | 9-8 | ||||
| Sat Mar 2 | 3 | Purdue | L, 80-74 | Away | 17-12 | 9-9 | ||||
| Wed Mar 6 | 46 | Northwestern | W, 53-49 | Home | 18-12 | 10-9 | ||||
| Sun Mar 10 | 93 | Indiana | L, 65-64 | Away | 18-13 | 10-10 | ||||
| Big Ten Conference Tournament | ||||||||||
| Thu Mar 14 | 78 | Minnesota | W, 77-67 | Neutral | 19-13 | |||||
| Fri Mar 15 | 3 | Purdue | L, 67-62 | Neutral | 19-14 | |||||
They beat Baylor and Illinois at home - that is it. Our wins against Uconn and Marquette are better along with our other Q1 wins.
I follow you over at the RU board. Some good stuff. But saying beating Butler is the same as beating Maryland and forgetting about PC? Lost some credibility with that response.
@sussexcopirate has some good posts in this thread. I typically side with the “do better” crowd, not in this case. The committee chair sounded like a moron yesterday. He mentioned Michigan States “Q1 wins” - SHU, SJU and Providence had more. Its so obvious they just go with who they want.
the only rationale on the “do better” is we’re never going to get favors on the bubble and we need to prepare accordingly in the future. Is what it is.
What the BE coaches, and really all coaches should want is CLEAR criteria. They selectively choose their favorite points for each team - one team is in b/c of Q1 wins, one is in b/c of OOC.
For the 50th time; why the guessing game on this? Just tell everyone the order of importance, publicly, and let teams schedule accordingly….and be prepared to be held to the fire on it (exactly why they don’t want it)
the only rationale on the “do better” is we’re never going to get favors on the bubble and we need to prepare accordingly in the future. Is what it is.
What the BE coaches, and really all coaches should want is CLEAR criteria. They selectively choose their favorite points for each team - one team is in b/c of Q1 wins, one is in b/c of OOC.
For the 50th time; why the guessing game on this? Just tell everyone the order of importance, publicly, and let teams schedule accordingly….and be prepared to be held to the fire on it (exactly why they don’t want it)
He hates the big east as much as the committee so the more teams they leave out, the better his projections are. Lmao. I kid, I kid.
Agree. Lay out the criteria before the season starts. Danny had it right— it’s a shell game.
Thanks. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading some of these asinine justifications that really insult everyones intelligence.
Dan,
Take this troll out.
Justifying NIT as a reason to justify his hatred for the Big East and Seton Hall.
What a sad existence for this internet hero.
Take this troll out.
Justifying NIT as a reason to justify his hatred for the Big East and Seton Hall.
What a sad existence for this internet hero.
This clown doesn’t know that the Big Ten hasn’t won a national championship since 2000. Same year Rutgers UConn star Cam Spencer was born.
I agree, I appreciate his insights. But even Wachtel said SHU should have been in, particularly over MSU. That said, he seemed to know how the committee was going to go -- with Izzo.
beating butler is the same as beating maryland basically yes...for starters look at the nets...you have inflated sense of your league.
you beat Providence but also lost to them so....
you lost to iowa, usc, and rutgers
and what is butler...they stunk it up at the end of the year....and thats with 4 autowins built into their schedule
No Richmond for the Providence game. If we are to believe the committee chair that game apparently doesn’t count.
Okay. What they also had is a HOF coach and a committee that leaned heavy to the P5. Let’s see how they do.
Better than Maryland is what they were. Look at their wins, this isn't hard, man.
here is what you are not understanding....there is a combo of things that go into the selection process, its not one thing..
