it’s on the twitter so it’s got to be true lol. I don’t see it one bit. Stop believing stupid polls. Harris is going to win Iowa. Lot of things out there are at odds with reality.
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I think that's fair, but she was also a really bad candidate. Fill her shoes with someone who could have connected with voters, and I think that person would have won easily. It wasn't the message as much as it was the messenger.
This is more of a gut feeling from what I have read and from the people I talk to that feel Democrats are not caring enough about the middle class and they are focusing on helping the people in the fringes more (like trans athletes, or asylum seekers etc...) Even if it is not entirely true, that is the perception at least. The trans athlete issue for example makes them look like they are so out of touch with the far majority of Americans. In reality, this issue is not important at all and does not impact 99.99% of the country. Democrats are just giving ammo to republicans that they are unwilling to at least acknowledge that biological males have an advantage over biological females.
I'm not saying they're wrong in wanting to help marginalized people, but you can't help them if you're losing elections.
Gary Johnson and Jill Stein took enough votes away from Hillary in Florida to lose. https://ballotpedia.org/Presidential_election_in_Florida,_2016The claim that "the left" and Jill Stein cost Clinton the election is false.
Jill Stein (and/or Gary Johnson) did not cost Clinton the 2016 election. See here:
Did Gary Johnson and Jill Stein Cost Hillary Clinton the Presidency? A Counterfactual Analysis of Minor Party Voting in the 2016 US Presidential Election
Hillary Clinton won the national popular vote for president in 2016, but lost to Donald Trump in the Electoral College. Trump’s margin of victory in several decisive battleground states was smaller than the combined vote for the two leading minor party candidates: Gary Johnson, of the...www.degruyter.com
Maybe Hillary Clinton would have been better off not running a bad campaign and taking the swing states she lost for granted?
And it's really not true that Harris would have won any swing states if all Stein and Cornel West voters had voted for Harris instead, though that hasn't stopped people from claiming this anyway.
You correctly note that the right wing media has successfully labeled all Democrats as radical left wing nuts, and then you take a page out of their book and blame the far left anyway! Come on! Kamala Harris didn't lose the election because AOC gets lots of people to watch her on Instagram live. It doesn't make any sense.
And for all the talk of "moderates" not wanting a far left candidate, why is Bernie Sanders ranked as the most popular politician among self-described moderates?
This is at odds with what you and SHUHoopsFan are claiming.
I agree Hillary did not listen to her husband who correctly pointed out that she needed to spend more time in Michigan, and Wisconsin. the people around Biden screwed the election up by trying to have him run and hold on to power. Harris was a bad VP. And the only way she had a shot at winning the election was because she was against Trump. And I don't think you can base that Bernie is the most popular candidate among moderates. Who the hell is Jeremy Levin to be so authoritative?
Why limit to cable though. If you're trying to make a point about bias distribution, podcasts, websites, YouTube shows etc are probably more relevant than cable news currently and there is certainly more successful conservative voices than liberal ones.
Right wing media is not only networks. It is all these podcasts online and half assed shows and websites. Newsome is a good candidate because he is fearless. He goes on fox and other right wing media where most of the candidates stay away/. And every time he does it, I hear from my right wing friend, you know I don't like him but he is very good. You need someone with charisma and there is no doubt he is very articulate and smart. That wins elections.
Do you have any data that supports podcasts lean more right than left?
Newsom is a terrible candidate. He’s got a lousy record and comes across disingenuous. He may be more articulate than Harris, but that’s it. I don’t see how he moves the needle on the red counties.
March someone out there with charisma and no policies, and you’re getting the same results. This is the whole problem with Democrats right now. They ran with the anti-Trump strategy for so long that they’ve become a position- less party.
Addressing your skepticism. Please see below poll, conducted last month. Refer to page 9.
Respectfully, it is a major stretch to think that people who voted for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate, were going to vote for Hillary Clinton if Johnson wasn't on the ballot. If you assume Hillary Clinton gets every Jill Stein vote (which is also a stretch), she would have needed almost 50,000 Johnson voters.
It's much more likely these voters, if they didn't have Johnson to vote for, would have held their nose and voted for Trump, or simply stayed home entirely. Stein voters likely would have abstained from voting, too. This was a major conclusion of the analysis I posted earlier.
Hypothetically, even if we jump to this major conclusion that Stein (and Johnson) cost Hillary Clinton Florida and the rest of the 2016 electoral map stayed the same, Hillary Clinton would have still lost the electoral college 275 to 256.
Because Sanders could never win a general election for president. Biden could, and did.
Exactly what I'm talking about. Truly great Democrats were in the mold of JFK and Bill Clinton. Many of the policies of their presidencies, which were longstanding Democrat traditions, would be considered to be right of center in 2025.
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Don't see hw you could call either Biden or Harris centrist. The last four years were run from the radical left and both seemed to be OK with it. I think that history will bear out that the two of them, were the worst Pres / VP combo in history. And history will label them left wng radicals based on the policies they favored.
You say the righ wing media labels all dems leftwing loonies...... but that's the only thing that the left wing media reports on and makes excuses for. They take unpopular policies and make them seem normal.
Bernie would have won in 2016. He gets more votes than Clinton in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, and keeps all the states Clinton won. That's the ballgame. But the Democratic party made sure that he didn't get the chance.
If you have any doubts about this, refer to this crowd Sanders attracted last night in one of the swing states Clinton and Harris lost, in March of an off year.
Like what? Seriously, you guys keep saying this like it's conventional wisdom. It's not true. What did Biden do that was so left wing?
The antitrust stuff was at least a reversal from prior admins (both Dem and Rep), but it seems like the Trump admin is continuing some of the stuff Biden was doing. For the record I think that's a good thing.
Tell me what Biden did that was so left wing. And it would be nice if you could keep it to things that actually happened. Student loans, for example - the courts primarily struck down the things he wanted to do, and he basically shrugged his shoulders and said okay.
I think the bigger issue is what were Biden’ policies, because for the most part, he did nothing but spend money and fuel inflation. The CHIIPS act was a worthy investment but the vast majority was unnecessary and just added to the deficit.
The significant legislation passed kept us out of a recession (at minimum) during the last administration.
We would have been far worse off economically without the American rescue plan, infrastructure bill and inflation reduction act.
We came out of the worst pandemic of any of our lives with a soft landing of a period of inflation with little impact to jobs and the overall economy.
Had we not spent on those bills, we would have been crushed economically.
We don’t know that for sure, and you can make the argument that too much money was put out there. I can only imagine what the hangover fraud and abuse is out there from the PPP loans and ERTC credit. Cities ended up spending tons of leftover ARPA funds that should have been returned.
Regardless, this was all a reaction to the pandemic. What were his long term policies? And then Harris said she would do the same thing. What thing?
Infrastructure is the biggest and best thing Biden accomplished. This accomplishment will be felt for the next decade.
Worth remembering how much of the post-pandemic inflation was a global phenomenon, as well. Incumbent politicians and parties in power around the world suffered losses as a consequence of inflation.
Yes, we do know that for sure. You can look at studies on the impacts, the number of jobs created / saved, and even look at the impact to the United States compared to other countries. We came out of the pandemic economically unscathed other than inflation which was a global phenomenon primarily due to supply shocks.
And to debate now if it was too much is something I just honestly don't care about. Said at the time, you err on the side of caution to do too much because doing too little means a recession / depression.
If we didn't pass those bills, and we entered into a recession and started losing jobs in every industry, you would be here saying that he didn't do enough.
The reaction to the pandemic was his biggest spending.
Of his most significant legislation -
The CHIPS act - Good spending which I am glad you now acknowledge
Infrastructure bill - Good / Needed spending which created hundreds of thousands of jobs (at a conservatives estimate) driving construction and manufacturing jobs to higher levels than we have seen in decades..
Inflation reduction act - Good spending which was scored to raise more revenue than the costs which also aimed to target pushing our reliance away from China.
Those were significant accomplishments during the last administration.
Our economy hummed along while many experts, pundits, and people here on this board were saying that we will see a recession.
We didn't because the administration managed the economy coming out of the worst pandemic of any of our lives very well. They should get some credit for that.
I already acknowledged the CHIPS act.
But if you add that to the Infrastructure bill, Inflation reduction, etc, it also added trillions to the deficit. You can’t ignore that.
And fast forward to running for his second term. Before he had to drop out because he couldn’t remember his name, what was his plan? Spend more money? Student loan forgiveness? What was his plan for his second term? I don’t recall any plans on reducing the deficit that exploded under him.
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They will not add "trillions" to the deficit. Not even remotely close.
Per CBO estimates - Infrastructure bill would add $256 billion over ten years. Inflation reduction act would reduce the deficit by $238 billion over 10 years. Net impact of those two bills $18 billion over 10 years.
I'm not arguing what a hypothetical 2nd term would have looked like. What I will argue is that the path we took was a successful one to come out of the pandemic without economic pain.
I think Dems should run Bernie in 2028 he will only be 87 and he is more coherent than Biden ( I know almost everyone is )It provides a test if US is ready for socialism.Republicans could counter with examples of how poor socialists countries on a per capital basis compared to US.I know it would be hard to go against noted economic scholars like the squad but I think Republicans could do it.
You're living in warped world if you think that's happening. Crowd size, now you're sounding like Trump. Republicans will retain the presidency if they run a Bernie-like candidate in 2028.
I give Bernie credit because he believes in what he says. It’s funny though, because he gives the same exact speech every single time he’s in front of a camera. Billionaires, oligarchs, blah, blah, blah.
It’s pretty obvious that Democrats rigged the primary against Biden back in 2016 when all the deals happened with Jim Clyburn.
Trying to imagine what Bernie‘s cabinet would look like… Lol
It’s pretty obvious that Democrats rigged the primary against Biden back in 2016 when all the deals happened with Jim Clyburn.
Trying to imagine what Bernie‘s cabinet would look like… Lol
Jon Tester points the finger at Harris and the far left. He's correct.
www.foxnews.com
Ex-Dem senator Jon Tester links his 2024 loss to Kamala Harris' poor performance in his state
Ex-U.S. Senator Jon Tester said his election loss was the fault for former Vice President Kamala Harris' poor electoral performance in his home state of Montana.
Why wouldn’t the Democratic Party want to have Hillary over Bernie? Bernie is an independent. Not a democrat. The demoratio party had no obligation to Bernie who is not even a member of the party. I don’t think they rigged the election they just preferred her. So what?
First of all, she was a horrible candidate that ran a dumb campaign. They nominated a candidate that literally lost a Presidential race that was handed to her.
Labels don’t matter. Bernie was performing very well amongst Democratic primary voters, so isn’t that the whole idea of a primary? To determine who the registered Democrats want as a candidate?
As the Democrats have shown the last three election cycles, they are definitely not the party of democracy. They are the party of the elite and special interests. Whoever the party bosses and puppet masters want, that is who gets to run for president.
Hillary would have made a great president. Not a great campaigner and for some reason people did not like her. However, in my opinion, she would have been a great President. Her failure to win though created the mess we now have with Trump who is just the worst President in history.
That post made me laugh a lot. She was a horrible candidate that would’ve made a worse president. Completely tone deaf.
Just look at the way she has handled herself since losing. Bitter, divisive, in total denial. Maybe the best word is deplorable.
The best thing about Trump winning in 2016 was that Hillary would never become the first female president. Thank goodness.
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This is correct. Is this not a complete 180 from what you said earlier in this thread about the Democratic Party being taken over by the radical woke left?
Do you think the elites and special interests want to enact a radical left-wing agenda? They don't!
Over 10,000 people showed up in Warren, Michigan. An out-of-state politician in a non-election year, in a state Trump won, in a congressional district represented by a Republican. 🤷♂️
I don't think they care about an agenda. They care about power and the vast majority of the country is somewhere in the middle and the middle determines the outcome of elections. After primaries both democrats and republicans try to make a push towards the middle to gain their votes. Both parties should just start out looking for candidates that are centrist. Why they don't, I won't understand. The radical left like Bernie won't go to the middle and therefore won't win. It's very simple. Democrats can't win with a guy like Bernie because he won't come back to the middle to gain those votes. It's a loss of power message.
Like Trump doesn't get those numbers. The numbers at a rally/event don't tell a story for the whole state. Trump had more people than Biden had at any rally. Do you think Trump won 2020?
No obligation to Bernie, but the problem was that they weren’t listening to voters. They were pushing Hillary in spite of the fact that the voters were showing they weren’t as on board with her as the party was.
I’ll be fair that I can’t be certain Bernie would have beaten Trump, but the party pushing Hillary against Bernie was an effective narrative for Trump to use which could have driven people away from democrats.
This is a good point that I failed to mention. Unlike Trump, Bernie isn't even running for office and he's still pulling crowds like this. It's pretty impressive!
Did Biden even hold rallies in 2020? I seem to recall him primarily running his campaign from his basement in Delaware.
Bernie is the spokesperson for a socialist party in America. It’s not like there’s 200 options to listen to. If you’re one of those whackos that wants a socialist in office you’ll travel to hear him. He’s the Godfather of that movement. It doesn’t mean half the country will vote for him. Heck people showed up to listen to Joe McCarthy. Doesn’t mean he’d win the presidency.
Geez Biden did drive in rallies.
Funny how you don’t want to address the fact that presidential candidates move to the middle.
There are apparently a lot of whackos out in those swing states that didn't vote for Kamala Harris or Hillary Clinton. Makes you think...
It is curious to compare Sanders to Joe McCarthy, an opportunist who capitalized on the red scare. Once he was shown to be a fraud he lost public support, was censured by the Senate, and drank himself to death by age 48. Contrast this with Sanders, who has been consistent his entire political life, and is as popular as he's ever been at age 83.
Do you think Donald Trump moved to the middle in his campaign? Do you think he's staked out more moderate positions since becoming the president again? I don't, but I think his base loves him for that. People appreciate consistency.
there’s 330 million people in the country, even 500,000 isn’t a lot, but you’re excited over 10,000. Get a clue.
Not comparing the 2 other than a good number of people listened to them. Doesn’t mean they’re going to get 75 million votes.
Borders, economy, transgender in sports and so many other topics he was more center than Kamala. He never really had to move much because nobody forced him to. He was the more center candidate from start to finish. People appreciate consistency when it’s good. The Seton Hall pirates were consistent this year did you appreciate their consistency?
