Later Coleman

[SHUSource]

i have never and will continue to not believe these supposed salaries the players are supposedly making. Initially it was thought that $750K would be needed to retain Coleman. Now it's $1.5M? That's a pretty big difference.

The thing is that everyone has more to spend now, and the players (and their agents) know it. So I have no doubt that we will have significantly more to spend this year, but others do, too, and it's driving the price of talent upwards, significantly.

I do think that our spending power is more improved this year relative to other programs, however, and that'll help. But it's not like we went from $1.5 million to $4 million while everyone else is holding static. But our leap should be greater, at least by percentage, than a number of other programs. But definitely not all, or even a majority, I would guess.

None of it means anything if we don't spend it well, and that goes for everyone.

 

[TheHall87]

I’m not so sure. If you asked me in mid January I would have agreed. But the last dozen games or so he became a volume player that scored a lot of his points when the game was a blowout in the second half. When teams clamped down on him in the first half he was often 0-8, 1-9. 2-10 at best.

His offensive efficiency numbers aren’t great with the highest usage rate on the team. And his defensive efficiency numbers are terrible.

You say he’d be a lockdown defender at 25 mpg—he hasn’t shown that (and often carried his offensive woes into defensive mishaps). He isn’t a physical defender at all and doesn’t move his feet very quickly to gain position.

Can he become more efficient? Hard to know right now.

Maybe.

Put a few guys with some legitimate talent around him to take some of the heat off and I'd bet Coleman would approach his production with greater efficiency.

It's tough to make plays when you are priority one, two and three on another team's scouting report because there often isn't anybody else on the floor who can hurt you.

 

[SHUSource]

Put a few guys with some legitimate talent around him to take some of the heat off and I'd bet Coleman would approach his production with greater efficiency.

It's tough to make plays when you are priority one, two and three on another team's scouting report because there often isn't anybody else on the floor who can hurt you.

For sure. Even just the loss of Jenkins this year seemed to prompt the (relative) decline of Coleman

 

[shupat08]

i have never and will continue to not believe these supposed salaries the players are supposedly making. Initially it was thought that $750K would be needed to retain Coleman. Now it's $1.5M? That's a pretty big difference.

You don't have to believe it that's fine. We will see what our roster looks like with 5-6 million to spend and that will tell us if the numbers are relatively accurate.

 

[TheHall87]

For sure. Even just the loss of Jenkins this year seemed to prompt the (relative) decline of Coleman

There was a period where we were down Jenkins, DAW and Middleton.

Coleman, Dual and Felton were logging heavy minutes with Aligbe, Toumi and our three-headed center. Not a lot of offensive options there

 

[hallstorm]

Put a few guys with some legitimate talent around him to take some of the heat off and I'd bet Coleman would approach his production with greater efficiency.

It's tough to make plays when you are priority one, two and three on another team's scouting report because there often isn't anybody else on the floor who can hurt you.

Ah but aren’t you the numbers guy?

Maybe making plays consists of looking for an open guy when you get double teamed? Or swinging a pass to the other side of the court?

The fact that Coleman didn’t stop at 0-3, 0-4 and kept shooting was kinda frustrating to watch. Both Godswill and Aligbe can finish around the hoop as the season wore on. Why not feed them?

 

[Seton75]

I dont know or care what our budget is and really pay little mind lo what SH people tell well meaning fans. I dont know what the market is. 1.5 mill for some of the talent I read about is insane. And maybe that really is the market. The way this is put together is a manipulators wet dream. And I dont give a shit about any of it.

I hope we get a respectable team and I hope Sha does a better job caching them than he did this year. The next 50 kids who we contact as as meaningful to me as the junkmail on my mail box.

 

[Hall Is Life]

Ah but aren’t you the numbers guy?

Maybe making plays consists of looking for an open guy when you get double teamed? Or swinging a pass to the other side of the court?

The fact that Coleman didn’t stop at 0-3, 0-4 and kept shooting was kinda frustrating to watch. Both Godswill and Aligbe can finish around the hoop as the season wore on. Why not feed them?

Isn’t it obvious? But then I’m accused of having an agenda. When will you come to terms? Coaching!

 

[Piratz]

I dont know or care what our budget is and really pay little mind lo what SH people tell well meaning fans. I dont know what the market is. 1.5 mill for some of the talent I read about is insane. And maybe that really is the market. The way this is put together is a manipulators wet dream. And I dont give a shit about any of it.

I hope we get a respectable team and I hope Sha does a better job caching them than he did this year. The next 50 kids who we contact as as meaningful to me as the junkmail on my mail box.

Manipulators dream for sure. You’ll see more legal action too in the future. It’s too shady.

These prices are what the market is bearing. The amount of money in this NIL industry is shocking. Then you add the revenue sharing to the pot. Oh, and you reduce the pool of players available by 20% because the extra COVID-19 year is gone.

We know Seton Hall has a terrible budget. Enough people who know say it and the results are clearly screaming that. I also have no clue if Shaheen & Co. are on top of this enough to understand the market dynamics above. Yeah, Sha may have a tough time believing Isaiah Coleman deserves whatever number, but if someone is willing to pay it that number, it doesn’t matter what he thinks and he needs to get over his personal opinion and live in the market (I do think this is an issue with us, my opinion).

 

[radecicco]

We might have competitive $$$ but few schools are carrying a 7-24 albatross on their backs.

 

[Seton75]

while how sha sees the recruiting and nil tea leaves is concerning, if his team is ready to play when the season starts, and runs an offense that gets good shots, that will give me a smile

 

[hallstorm]

Isn’t it obvious? But then I’m accused of having an agenda. When will you come to terms? Coaching!

I’m not saying you’re wrong. Yet.

I need to see what Sha does with this year’s team. Really Sha’s offense isn’t much different from Willard: iso ball for both and more than once it was written on here that Willard was the easiest coach to scout against.

Kevin just had better players.

The question is whether Sha gets a couple stars and moves away from the 10 bench player approach.

But really being able to feed an open guy a pass for an easy dunk or layup doesn’t require coaching.

 

[Piratz]

Bingo

 

[LBP43]

We have to accept that Sha decides whom we get and what The Hall pays -- Logically it appears that Sha did not believe he wanted to keep Coleman at the price Coleman wants.
It is of interest to me that only 2 players --to date - have entered the portal does this suggest the others remain ?

 

[Piratz]

while how sha sees the recruiting and nil tea leaves is concerning, if his team is ready to play when the season starts, and runs an offense that gets good shots, that will give me a smile

Same here, 75!

We have to accept that Sha decides whom we get and what The Hall pays -- Logically it appears that Sha did not believe he wanted to keep Coleman at the price Coleman wants.
It is of interest to me that only 2 players --to date - have entered the portal does this suggest the others remain ?

They have 30 days to declare and sign unless a grad student, I think.

No market demand 🤣 🤷‍♂️

 

[Burnsly]

Maybe SF-PA is right moving to D3. This model isn't sustainable for 2/3's of D1 MCBB teams.

 

[Piratz]

They’re going to be a beast with Luis-Hopkins-Zuby alone.

 

[shupat08]

View embedded media

They’re going to be a beast with Luis-Hopkins-Zuby alone.

Mo Odum has StJ on his list. I may actively start rooting for StJ if Pitino can make Mo Odum a big east starting PG.

Edit: and I don't mean this as a knock on Odum at all btw he has a the likes of Kansas, Baylor, etc on his list as well. Also Santa Clara lol

 

[The Crows Nest]

Same here, 75!


They have 30 days to declare and sign unless a grad student, I think.

No market demand 🤣 🤷‍♂️

Declare/opt in portal yes; sign, no

 

[radecicco]

Maybe SF-PA is right moving to D3. This model isn't sustainable for 2/3's of D1 MCBB teams.

Agree. Ackerman said this at a public event several weeks ago. It may take some time to shake out but it’s coming. Maybe not 2/3s but a significant drop in the number of D1 schools is coming.

 

[lloyde dobler]

Agree. Ackerman said this at a public event several weeks ago. It may take some time to shake out but it’s coming. Maybe not 2/3s but a significant drop in the number of D1 schools is coming.

Which is exactly what the big boys want.

It didn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things, but the St Peter’s run was still not a good thing for the little guy. And really, they feel the same toward the basketball-onlies.

 

[SHU90s]

We might have competitive $$$ but few schools are carrying a 7-24 albatross on their backs.

In the not-too-distant past when it was more difficult to transfer after one season? Then yep, I agree that the 7-24 record would be a real albatross. Nowadays? In this era of one-year deals and unrestricted free agency, I really don’t think it’s going to be that much of a hindrance. Sha could easily point to Missouri’s one-year turnaround from last in the SEC to NCAA tournament this season as proof that last year‘s results have no bearing upon how good the team could be next season. More fundamentally, I really believe that players are now so mercenary that they won’t give one whit about Seton Hall‘s record this past season, if SHU is the higher bidder for their services.

 

[Piratz]

In the not-too-distant past when it was more difficult to transfer after one season? Then yep, I agree that the 7-24 record would be a real albatross. Nowadays? In this era of one-year deals and unrestricted free agency, I really don’t think it’s going to be that much of a hindrance. Sha could easily point to Missouri’s one-year turnaround from last in the SEC to NCAA tournament this season as proof that last year‘s results have no bearing upon how good the team could be next season. More fundamentally, I really believe that players are now so mercenary that they won’t give one whit about Seton Hall‘s record this past season, if SHU is the higher bidder for their services.

Therein lies the dilemma. We went 7-26 because we had no money. Hope we now have money so it won’t matter.

 

[Piratz]

The real advantage the BE schools are hoping for is that they can go invest maybe $7-10M in basketball from revenue sharing when the P4 schools only do maybe a fraction of that and the rest to football, which narrows the current gap.

We’ll see what happens.

 

[radecicco]

In the not-too-distant past when it was more difficult to transfer after one season? Then yep, I agree that the 7-24 record would be a real albatross. Nowadays? In this era of one-year deals and unrestricted free agency, I really don’t think it’s going to be that much of a hindrance. Sha could easily point to Missouri’s one-year turnaround from last in the SEC to NCAA tournament this season as proof that last year‘s results have no bearing upon how good the team could be next season. More fundamentally, I really believe that players are now so mercenary that they won’t give one whit about Seton Hall‘s record this past season, if SHU is the higher bidder for their services.

Fair point. Hope you’re right. We should know soon.

 

[donnie_baseball]

No idea what's going on, but hopefully we're still in talks with Coleman, since there has been no announcement yet. Or we're completely out of it and he's deciding between other programs. Such a strange new world.

 

[itsacurse]

The thing with coleman is that he's pretty good. But if he prices himself among actually very good players, you'd just take them instead. Don't give him a seton hall premium because he isn't a seton hall player at the moment

 

[Halldan1]

No idea what's going on, but hopefully we're still in talks with Coleman, since there has been no announcement yet. Or we're completely out of it and he's deciding between other programs. Such a strange new world.

His asking price is off the wall. Say goodbye.

 

[Pirates1991]

His asking price is off the wall. Say goodbye.

1.5M!!!!

 

[radecicco]

Guys, it’s not off the wall. Read today’s Athletic. Maybe a starting point for negotiations for Coleman and he talks less.

 

[shupat08]

Guys, it’s not off the wall. Read today’s Athletic. Maybe a starting point for negotiations for Coleman and he talks less.

This is what our posters and it seems our staff obviously still don't understand. It is not an absurd asking price based on where the market seems to be moving. The big money in the football conferences is causing massive inflation and the Big East is continuing to fall behind

 

[lloyde dobler]

This is what our posters and it seems our staff obviously still don't understand. It is not an absurd asking price based on where the market seems to be moving. The big money in the football conferences is causing massive inflation and the Big East is continuing to fall behind

I think people understand. It’s just that it’s also not absurd to say no to him.

 

[shupat08]

I think people understand. It’s just that it’s also not absurd to say no to him.

No, it's not absurd to say no to him. I understand that. But people who are laughing at the asking price. I'm not sure if they understand.

If you look back at the thread a week or two ago people were talking about paying Coleman $500,000 so I think a lot on here don't understand.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

This is what our posters and it seems our staff obviously still don't understand. It is not an absurd asking price based on where the market seems to be moving. The big money in the football conferences is causing massive inflation and the Big East is continuing to fall behind

The money isn't just coming from the football conferences, it's expected to be coming from revenue sharing. There's a big money dump coming in from all directions. So players who asked for 1 million last year are going to be asking for 2 million because the money is there to be paid. It's simple supply and demand. If the money dump is coming, these guys want their hands on it.

 

[IronKaz1]

how do these players make more the NBA minimums??????????? these are pro's not amateurs ..... Coleman your good but not that good

 

[IronKaz1]

u scored 16 ppg on a 7-26 team , prove your worth

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

u scored 16 ppg on a 7-26 team , prove your worth

He doesn't have to. It only takes 1 dope to be willing to pay what he wants.

 

[IronKaz1]

He doesn't have to. It only takes 1 dope to be willing to pay what he wants.

I miss the old school under the table ways haha haha, blue chips style, look at that fool who went to Rutgers Derkack everyone including us gushed over him because he scored a lot on MERRIMACK..... if he was so good he wouldnt have gone to MERRIMACK and I'm not even busting on him, I'm annoyed because til NIL came players who were top 200 players made it, and randomly someone above would transfer in and sit out a year 2do so, now me IronKaz can friggin play for you if I look the part......

 

[Piratz]

We’re going to have to pay at least 2 players more than $1M each in this cycle to have an impact. A PG being one, preferably. Add those 2 and a couple serviceable guys, then you can return a handful of this years players for cheap depth. That’s where the market is. If we don’t have the stomach for that it’s a problem. If we don’t think Coleman will be one then fine, then find another.

Wait until we get into bidding wars.

 

[Piratz]

The money isn't just coming from the football conferences, it's expected to be coming from revenue sharing. There's a big money dump coming in from all directions. So players who asked for 1 million last year are going to be asking for 2 million because the money is there to be paid. It's simple supply and demand. If the money dump is coming, these guys want their hands on it.

Exactly. And the player pool shrunk with the COVID year over. The agents know the drill.

I miss the old school under the table ways haha haha, blue chips style, look at that fool who went to Rutgers Derkack everyone including us gushed over him because he scored a lot on MERRIMACK..... if he was so good he wouldnt have gone to MERRIMACK and I'm not even busting on him, I'm annoyed because til NIL came players who were top 200 players made it, and randomly someone above would transfer in and sit out a year 2do so, now me IronKaz can friggin play for you if I look the part......

Yeah the money was capped more too. It has exploded now that there are zero rules + revenue sharing.