Let The Exodus Begin
- Thread starter hallgrad80
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The organization needs to value starting pitching. Starting pitching costs money and it seems the yankees would rather spend their money on offense which does fill the seats from April to September. Whens the last time the yankees had a top 2 equivalent to Wheeler/Nola. Wheeler/Nola isn't Scherzer/Strasburg from a few years ago but it's still much better than the yankees have had most of the last decade. Whens the last time the yanks had a top 3 equivalent to Verlander/Valdez/Javier or Buehler/Urias/Kershaw.
I agree, SHUHoopsFan. It’s also time they turn a critical eye to player development and overall baseball philosophy. Where is it? While they are no longer outpacing everyone on spend on payroll, their resources are at the top of the sport. Where’s the next core? What exactly do they believe in? Their interpretation of launch angle, OBP, productive outs, acceptance of K’s and so forth will not work in postseason play. And Judge and Torres are their only developed regular position players.
Hal seems like a status quo guy. They’ve made the playoffs 6 consecutive times since their reboot but have a losing record there. I’m not sure he’s hands on enough to change their philosophy.
Hal seems like a status quo guy. They’ve made the playoffs 6 consecutive times since their reboot but have a losing record there. I’m not sure he’s hands on enough to change their philosophy.
Rizzo , like every veteran , wants to get to the World Series and staying with the Yankees is getting to be a long shot and this does not surprise me.
Everyone wants to talk Hal, but the problems started with George. Ever since he wanted a one dimensional first baseman in Giambi the type of free agents the yankees get has changed. Who were the one dimensional yankees between 1995-2001? Bernie? Jeter? O'Neill? Broscius? Tino? Guys like Tino were so valuable and underrated. Those are the types of guys you win with. Get all around players on the field.
Rizzo would be a guy they should pursue with a higher contract value/ 2-3 years at a few mill higher than he is getting paid now. Solid defender, perfect for the short porch in right field and well liked by the fans. Risk is his back but I don't think the Yanks have a hot first baseman at AAA right now they want to promote. Rizzo is a guy that was more part of the solution than part of the problem. They resign Judge then they are saddled with two HR hitters but also two guys that strike out way too much. Hard decisions have to be made.
The Yankees have nine other free agents , other then Judge and Rizzo , and include Severino and Taillon , both starters in their rotation, Chapman, Britton, Green, Benintendi, Castro ,Carpenter and Marwin Gonzalez. What I see is an opprotunity for the Yanks ( read Cashman ) to add position players that more reflect the type of player that gives you a better chance to get to the World Series .The Yanks also need to address their starting rotation and the bullpen as a priority target. Two players that need to be moved are Hicks and Donaldson but their salaries may make that difficult.
Gotta move on from Chapman (obvious), Britton and Carpenter (had a great season but another high strike out guy). Green will be out most of next year. I cannot stand Frankie Montas - terrible trade (another middling starter). I like Bader but still think they should have held onto Montgomery. They need another stud starter to add to Cole and Nestor to compete in the playoffs and they need a proven closer. I like Castro in the bullpen and Holmes and Wandy. As far as position players they need to move on from Hicks and find a way to move Donaldson (need more production at 3B). Marwin Gonzalez does nothing for me. I'm 50/50 on Gleyber - will he become the star everyone thought he was going to be or is this it (a decent glove at 2b with a hot and cold bat). Lots of potential changes but its at the top (Cashman and Boone) that will really matter.
The hitting coach's inability to change the batters approach in the first 3 playoff games against the Astros was horrendous. Yankees continued to take pitches early in the count and the Astros pitching took full advantage and kept getting ahead of the hitters with no adjustment? Just plain bad coaching from Boone on down.
The hitting coach's inability to change the batters approach in the first 3 playoff games against the Astros was horrendous. Yankees continued to take pitches early in the count and the Astros pitching took full advantage and kept getting ahead of the hitters with no adjustment? Just plain bad coaching from Boone on down.
I fell into the trap of blaming the hitting coach back when Kevin Long was with the Yankees. It's been the same issue with every subsequent hitting coach so it's obvious it's more of the culture of the organization. Hopefully that changes with the new rules in 2023 but I doubt it.
I fully expect Rizzo to be back. Yanks are good fit for him and he fits well in what Yankees need.
While obviously he could and probably would move on if some team offered him more than Yanks, this is a move to get a longer term deal.
Wow, I've been saying this to people for 20 years. Glad to see someone else thinks the same. The Yankees lost me as a fan when they went after Giambi. Tino was my favorite player on the late 90s Yankees, among a bunch of very likable players, for precisely the reasons you describe above and I couldn't stand Giambi. Made a big impact on me as a teenager who grew up loving them. Since they ran off Tino for Giambi, I haven't really cared about them.
When Steinbrenner was suspended, Stick Michael realized they needed to improve the Defense and put the ball in play more. At the same time, their farm system was producing guys like Jeter and Bernie and solid pitchers like Andy Pettite etc. Gene Michael changed the trajectory of the Yankees and improved the Defense and added more contact hitters on the payroll. It lead to multiple WS titles. It appeared that Cashman was trying to improve the defense which certainly helped this year. But he did not improve the pitching or the hitting and as a result we folded like cheap suits against the Astros and it was harder to beat the Indians than it needed to be. You can use all the analytics in the world but if their starters are much better and your hitters can't even put the ball in play you get the same losing results. 40 strikeouts in the first three games tells you all you need to know about your own hitting and their pitching.
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I think they'll try to bring Rizzo. back. Quality player and a leader. Of course he's going to look for a nice payday. Also signing him may be contingent on what happens with Judge.
Any Yankees exodus NEEDS to begin with Donaldson and Hicks. Two terrible, terrible,terrible baseball players. IKF was a fiasco and I'd dump his ass too. Hopefully DJ is back and recovered. Substitute a healthy DJ for that clown Donaldson and it's a very, very different series with the Ass-tros. I'd like to see the Yanks get their young talent Peraza and Volpe up pretty early and see what they can do.
The guy I'd love to get and would be huge as a Yankee is Ohtani but don't see the Angels trading him so will have to wait for his free agency the following year. Yankees have a rich history of star Japanese players shining in pinstripes.
Any Yankees exodus NEEDS to begin with Donaldson and Hicks. Two terrible, terrible,terrible baseball players. IKF was a fiasco and I'd dump his ass too. Hopefully DJ is back and recovered. Substitute a healthy DJ for that clown Donaldson and it's a very, very different series with the Ass-tros. I'd like to see the Yanks get their young talent Peraza and Volpe up pretty early and see what they can do.
The guy I'd love to get and would be huge as a Yankee is Ohtani but don't see the Angels trading him so will have to wait for his free agency the following year. Yankees have a rich history of star Japanese players shining in pinstripes.
I think whether it’s Rizzo or any other of the Yankee free agents the Yankees want to resign or any free agents they want to pursue will be impacted by how much money they‘re willing to commit to Judge and if they sign him that will reduce how much is available for signing other players.
Judge & Rizzo have become very close. I've read rumblings if Judge goes Rizzo will leave as well.
Ohtani has no trade clauses to 28 MLB teams if the Angels trade him.
The one team that is not on his no-trade list?
Mets.
First things first. Cashman's contract is expiring. SNY has reported that both Cashman and Boone will be retained but neither move is finalized. Boone still has two years left on his contract.
Nothing really happens until that get resolved.
Rizzo opting out of $16 million seems to be a no-brainer. He still plays a strong first base and while his batting average has declined in recent years (he hit .273 or better for six straight years but hasn't been above .248 since 2019) he still has pop in his bat. He's 33 and, I think, is productive enough for a win-now team. It helps that he's a lefty aiming at that short porch. I'd be surprised if someone doesn't give him two-years at a slight raise. He might be a nice fit on a team like Baltimore that could be very good with a little veteran leadership.
As for everyone else, according to Spotrac, the NYY CBT payroll for 2023 is at $130 million. That's for seven players -- Cole, Stanton, Donaldson, LeMahieu, Hicks, Bader and Severino. I believe they are including Severino as he has a club option for 2023 at $15 million. I'd be surprised if they didn't pick that option up. He'll be 29 on opening day and finally seems healthy. He's been great when healthy and he might be their number two starter if he is.
The first CBT tax threshold is $233 million. Spotrac is estimating about $46 million for arbitration/pre-arbitration players. With benefits it comes out to $195 million. Lots of moves still to come.
Nothing really happens until that get resolved.
Rizzo opting out of $16 million seems to be a no-brainer. He still plays a strong first base and while his batting average has declined in recent years (he hit .273 or better for six straight years but hasn't been above .248 since 2019) he still has pop in his bat. He's 33 and, I think, is productive enough for a win-now team. It helps that he's a lefty aiming at that short porch. I'd be surprised if someone doesn't give him two-years at a slight raise. He might be a nice fit on a team like Baltimore that could be very good with a little veteran leadership.
As for everyone else, according to Spotrac, the NYY CBT payroll for 2023 is at $130 million. That's for seven players -- Cole, Stanton, Donaldson, LeMahieu, Hicks, Bader and Severino. I believe they are including Severino as he has a club option for 2023 at $15 million. I'd be surprised if they didn't pick that option up. He'll be 29 on opening day and finally seems healthy. He's been great when healthy and he might be their number two starter if he is.
The first CBT tax threshold is $233 million. Spotrac is estimating about $46 million for arbitration/pre-arbitration players. With benefits it comes out to $195 million. Lots of moves still to come.
I don't think this is true. The one media report I've seen on this comes from what appears to be a Met fan or parody account on Twitter.
The Orange County Register's Angels beat writer responded to that tweet, denying there is any no-trade clause.
For what it's worth, Spotrac does not have any trade restriction listed next to his profile on the Angels team page.
A special group. A real baseball team with a great blend of homegrown and game veterans who all pulled to win, did the little things. They became mercenaries after that. I didn’t like how they treated Torre and then wasn’t thrilled that they bought the last title in 2009 with the spending spree. I thought maybe some juice was back in 2017 but that didn’t last.
They’ve been boring and blah. I also don’t think Boone is a great manager but idk what decisions he’s allowed to make lol.
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I'm not a Yankee fan and I'm also not part of the pay Judge (or anybody else) whatever he wants brigade but I'm not sure if subtracting the best piece of your lineup is the best way to rebuild things.
I'm fine with the argument that you can use the money you would spend on Judge to fill multiple roles in theory. In practice, creating a huge hole in your lineup to do so is a minus.
There are other places to reduce salary and improve production on that roster.
I can’t imagine Boone makes many decisions. Think about the Boone family. 3 generations of baseball players. I can’t picture the family discussions on baseball around the table being wait for the homer or let’s hope for 5 innings from the starter and let the bullpen take it home.
No doubt, we were spoiled. But they decided to chase money and fame over winning baseball.
I saw that show and Kay pulled no punches on what the Yankees did using the Yankees 2004 loss to the RedSox in the playoffs as motivation . Now that we have learned that the Yankees have a mental health coach maybe they need a team hypnotist to help them get rid of the hex the Astro’s have on them.
Well, then there they are. Not much hope for actual improvement until he surrenders the wheel. It's absolutely amazing he's hung on as long as he has.
The Yankees will never be terrible again -- they have too much money for that -- but they aren't winning anything until they get a GM who understands how to build a team.
It's really not amazing. He makes the Steinbrenners money. He puts together a roster that fills the ballpark night in, night out for the most part. He's a general manager. Most general managers are judged on making a business money. He understands more people will pay to see offense than a team that puts up zeros like crazy defensively. We're all under the delusion it's World Series or fail. It's a great line for the media and to make fans happy, but the only way he could've stayed this long is if that's just false narrative. Making money trumps all including a world series.
It's not World Series or fail, but you have to win one once in a while. There are 22-year-olds who have seen the Yankees win one World Series. With their resources, that's not excellence at all.
I'm not a Yankees fan, so I won't go on here about how titles are their birthright. I think they've wrung more than their fair share from all of that nonsense. But making money is one thing -- and they will certainly continue to do that -- and winning titles is another. And in this business, the customers need one every so often to sustain hope and justify their continued engagement with a business that is predicated on swindling them at every turn. Fans will put up with almost anything, but they need to believe the team is trying to win.
Going to be status quo. They’ll talk about LeMahieu and Bennitendi being contact guys who were out, the bullpen injuries, etc.
The team is terribly managed in these postseasons. They’re inflexible offensively but good enough to plod their way into the postseason every year.
The team is terribly managed in these postseasons. They’re inflexible offensively but good enough to plod their way into the postseason every year.
That seems like sound logic to me but the customers are filling the ballpark every night. They continue to try to win every year with offense and the customers continue to show up. When the customers don't show up, you'll see a change, but Cashman, like any good GM, understands his customers behavior. I'm not a yankees fan, but I do recognize the yankees being good is good for the sport.
Under dad winning was the priority. And yes we all know he was a little crazy. But with son it's now a business and that is more important than being the best team in baseball.
I am sick and tired about hearing about finances. You own the second most valuable sports franchise in the world and yet with son financial restraint seems to the key word with every choice made.
I am sick and tired about hearing about finances. You own the second most valuable sports franchise in the world and yet with son financial restraint seems to the key word with every choice made.
Again they'll talk about offense. When will they mention that their starting pitching wasn't on par with the Astros. When will they mention they don't have a 1-2 combo at the top of their rotation equivalent to Nola and Wheeler. It's nice pounding 4th and 5th starters during the regular season, but to win in October you need to beat aces. You better have a couple of aces on your side to do that.
