Mueller

[HALL85]

Only watched about an hour total, but what we saw was painful to see. Seems pretty obvious that Mueller was put in this role just to slap a credible name and face to it. Actually felt a little sorry for him, because this embarrassment is how his career is going to be remembered and now we know why he didn’t want to testify.

Now what next?

 

[Pirata]

Now what next?

If you ask Nadler, he is not letting go and will subpoena McGahn. He is hell bent on impeachment. Reminds me of Inspector Javert. Wonder if Nadler will jump off a bridge also at some point. Lol

Pelosi seems to be the only voice of reason in all this.

It was apparent Mueller was hands off during the investigation. I' d love to have a more accurate picture of the political leanings and hate-Trump index of the attorneys who did the actual investigation and report.

For sh_ts and giggles, I tuned into MSNBC to watch Chris Mathews opening monologue. Utterly unhinged. He led off with "Second Term or Prison". I only lasted about 30 seconds.

 

[HALL85]

If you ask Nadler, he is not letting go and will subpoena McGahn. He is hell bent on impeachment. Reminds me of Inspector Javert. Wonder if Nadler will jump off a bridge also at some point. Lol

Pelosi seems to be the only voice of reason in all this.

It was apparent Mueller was hands off during the investigation. I' d love to have a more accurate picture of the political leanings and hate-Trump index of the attorneys who did the actual investigation and report.

For sh_ts and giggles, I tuned into MSNBC to watch Chris Mathews opening monologue. Utterly unhinged. He led off with "Second Term or Prison". I only lasted about 30 seconds.

Agree on Pelosi. She is distancing herself from impeachment and Nadler. They are going to use him as a sacrificial pitbull to keep probing but only will engage if he finds something.

 

[Merge]

Only watched about an hour total, but what we saw was painful to see. Seems pretty obvious that Mueller was put in this role just to slap a credible name and face to it.

I thought it was important for him to testify because the far majority of Americans have no understanding of what the report says.
Hopefully they will watch the hearing or portions of it and not just let cable news tell them what to think about it.

Now what next?

No change really. Democrats will continue their inquiries. Trump will continue to try and block them.
Eventually an impeachment inquiry could be the only way to get the answers they want, but I don't think they go there without massive public demand for impeachment.

 

[HALL85]

I thought it was important for him to testify because the far majority of Americans have no understanding of what the report says.
Hopefully they will watch the hearing or portions of it and not just let cable news tell them what to think about it.



No change really. Democrats will continue their inquiries. Trump will continue to try and block them.
Eventually an impeachment inquiry could be the only way to get the answers they want, but I don't think they go there without massive public demand for impeachment.

I watched enough to see that Mueller was propped up as the “credible” face of the investigation and he was exposed and unfortunately now cuts at the credibility of the report. Remember, he didn’t want to testify and it showed. I’d like to know who really ran it, because it wasn’t Mueller.

 

[Merge]

For sh_ts and giggles, I tuned into MSNBC to watch Chris Mathews opening monologue. Utterly unhinged. He led off with "Second Term or Prison". I only lasted about 30 seconds.

All cable news is pretty bad, but that is probably not that far off.
If Trump doesn't win a 2nd term, odds are good he is facing some legal issues.

 

[HALL85]

All cable news is pretty bad, but that is probably not that far off.
If Trump doesn't win a 2nd term, odds are good he is facing some legal issues.

<merge hanging on by a thread to his conspiracy theory>...lol

 

[Merge]

I watched enough to see that Mueller was propped up as the “credible” face of the investigation and he was exposed and unfortunately now cuts at the credibility of the report. Remember, he didn’t want to testify and it showed. I’d like to know who really ran it, because it wasn’t Mueller.

That's a pretty silly narrative being pushed.

He didn't want to testify because he can't give any more detail than he already did and was trying to be very careful with his words.

 

[Merge]

<merge hanging on by a thread to his conspiracy theory>...lol

I'm just calling it as I see it. If Trump wasn't president, he would have been charged with obstruction of justice.

 

[HALL85]

That's a pretty silly narrative being pushed.

He didn't want to testify because he can't give any more detail than he already did and was trying to be very careful with his words.

Did you see it? He had no grasp of many of the questions; didn’t even know they were addressed in the report; admitted that he didn’t sit in on most of the interviews....and on and on. I haven’t watched any cable news...waste of time.

 

[Merge]

Did you see it? He had no grasp of many of the questions; didn’t even know they were addressed in the report; admitted that he didn’t sit in on most of the interviews....and on and on. I haven’t watched any cable news...waste of time.

Just seemed odd that you are parroting a narrative that he didn't run the investigation. Seems fairly baseless to me.

I mean, you just said you watched an hour. I watched more than that and I didn't come away thinking he didn't have a grasp of many of the questions. There were many that he did not want to go into the detail of because he couldn't.

 

[HALL85]

Just seemed odd that you are parroting a narrative that he didn't run the investigation. Seems fairly baseless to me.

I mean, you just said you watched an hour. I watched more than that and I didn't come away thinking he didn't have a grasp of many of the questions. There were many that he did not want to go into the detail of because he couldn't.

It seems “odd” that I have an opinion that may have been formed by decades of experience of seeing dozens of real life examples of what we saw? Sure, “odd”.....

We know how you “see” things, so I’m not surprised by your assessment.

 

[Merge]

It seems “odd” that I have an opinion that may have been formed by decades of experience of seeing dozens of real life examples of what we saw? Sure, “odd”.....

We know how you “see” things, so I’m not surprised by your assessment.

You watched 1 hour. Who was asking questions when you watched.

Don't pretend you aren't as biased as I am. Neither of us are providing surprising opinions here.

 

[HALL85]

You watched 1 hour. Who was asking questions when you watched.

Don't pretend you aren't as biased as I am. Neither of us are providing surprising opinions here.

Don’t pretend to be objective...

 

[Merge]

Don’t pretend to be objective...

In your opinion, sure.

I do recall a couple posters here saying I was wrong and trying to hold onto conspiracy theories when I said Mueller's report did not cover the counterintelligence investigation into Trump. I was confirmed to be correct during that hearing yesterday. I maintained after reading the report that Trump would be charged with obstruction if he wasn't president. Yesterday appeared to support that as well.

I'm comfortable with my objectivity.

 

[Stevie_H]

Don’t pretend to be objective...

LOL!!!!! The hypocrisy...wow.

 

[Stevie_H]

Mueller didn't deliver a Cabaret style song and dance, so the actual contents of the report are invalid. Good lord, what a partisan hack take...

 

[Section112]

I heard Mueller was having a hard time hearing due to the sound system so I'm gonna give the guy a pass for some of the repeat questions and how he looked confused for some of it. The guy has an awesome resume and was a decorated marine and he should apologize for nothing. Some of the opinions on his mental ability are over the line IMO.

I watched the first hour and then some other parts. Nothing new came out of the hearing except more posturing and attempted sound bites from both sides trying to advance their agenda and get him to say something damaging.

The report is damaging and the country should be most concerned with Russia, Google, Facebook and other outlets that are in fact effecting our elections. It's bad and the Federal Govt under Obama, Trump and anyone else right now cannot handle any of these influences and they are real. Not enough focus is happening to control these forces.

Volume II on Trump looks bad and does not represent how a Pres should act. It's not impeachable. Hillary could have been prosecuted after the election and was not. Trump is the Pres and he will probably not be prosecuted either. No opinions here on whether those prosecutions would be successful or not. Were the Trump offenses prosecutable? Definite maybe on that and not a definite no and IMO that is not good for a sitting President. Has this now gone on too far and is our Congress and Senate gonna get anything done? Doubtful. Much of the same crap will be bandied about by the far right and far left and nothing will continue to get done.

Sad. Our country deserves better than all of this and much better candidates in the future but much of the same will continue.

 

[Merge]

Volume II on Trump looks bad and does not represent how a Pres should act. It's not impeachable.

You have a fair assessment overall. The above line is the one that is difficult for me though.
We know that the president can not be charged with a crime. We know the only remedy to hold the president accountable for committing a crime is through impeachment.

We either have to believe that Trump did not commit obstruction of justice, or we have to believe that obstruction of justice is a crime that the president is allowed to commit while in office. I do believe Mueller laid out that there would be adequate support for a charge of obstruction and the idea that any president should be able to get away with that doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Section112]

You have a fair assessment overall. The above line is the one that is difficult for me though.
We know that the president can not be charged with a crime. We know the only remedy to hold the president accountable for committing a crime is through impeachment.

We either have to believe that Trump did not commit obstruction of justice, or we have to believe that obstruction of justice is a crime that the president is allowed to commit while in office. I do believe Mueller laid out that there would be adequate support for a charge of obstruction and the idea that any president should be able to get away with that doesn't sit well with me.

It shouldn't. But the question is it worth the unbelievable rabbit hole of an impeachment that could also set the country back years as well and frankly hurt both parties politically too. And then you guarantee that nothing gets done the last two years of his term and we have a lot of issues that need to be addressed.

 

[Merge]

It shouldn't. But the question is it worth the unbelievable rabbit hole of an impeachment that could also set the country back years as well and frankly hurt both parties politically too. And then you guarantee that nothing gets done the last two years of his term and we have a lot of issues that need to be addressed.

Agree completely. I don't think would be good for the country. Politically I also don't think it would be good for democrats but I am uncomfortable with the idea that the president is essentially above the law while in office.

 

[Pirata]

but I am uncomfortable with the idea that the president is essentially above the law while in office.

He's not above the Law. There's a process if a President breaks a law.

It seems pretty apparent he hasn't broken any laws otherwise they would begin the process.

 

[Section112]

Agree completely. I don't think would be good for the country. Politically I also don't think it would be good for democrats but I am uncomfortable with the idea that the president is essentially above the law while in office.

They all are to a certain extent and I bet many Presidents have done stuff and got away with it that would make us all cringe and worse than this too.

 

[Merge]

He's not above the Law. There's a process if a President breaks a law. It seems pretty apparent he hasn't broken any laws otherwise they would begin the process.

He can't be charged with a crime so the process would be to begin the impeachment inquiry. Democrats are hesitant to due so for political reasons, but there is a lot of evidence to suggest that Trump broke the law.

 

[Merge]

They all are to a certain extent and I bet many Presidents have done stuff and got away with it that would make us all cringe and worse than this too.

Probably true, but in my opinion we shouldn't turn a blind eye because past presidents probably did worse stuff.
When there is evidence that the president committed a crime, especially while in office, there should be consequences for it.

 

[Stevie_H]

I heard Mueller was having a hard time hearing due to the sound system so I'm gonna give the guy a pass for some of the repeat questions and how he looked confused for some of it. The guy has an awesome resume and was a decorated marine and he should apologize for nothing. Some of the opinions on his mental ability are over the line IMO.

I watched the first hour and then some other parts. Nothing new came out of the hearing except more posturing and attempted sound bites from both sides trying to advance their agenda and get him to say something damaging.

The report is damaging and the country should be most concerned with Russia, Google, Facebook and other outlets that are in fact effecting our elections. It's bad and the Federal Govt under Obama, Trump and anyone else right now cannot handle any of these influences and they are real. Not enough focus is happening to control these forces.

Volume II on Trump looks bad and does not represent how a Pres should act. It's not impeachable. Hillary could have been prosecuted after the election and was not. Trump is the Pres and he will probably not be prosecuted either. No opinions here on whether those prosecutions would be successful or not. Were the Trump offenses prosecutable? Definite maybe on that and not a definite no and IMO that is not good for a sitting President. Has this now gone on too far and is our Congress and Senate gonna get anything done? Doubtful. Much of the same crap will be bandied about by the far right and far left and nothing will continue to get done.

Sad. Our country deserves better than all of this and much better candidates in the future but much of the same will continue.

Agree with most of this, although I firmly believe the facts displayed in Volume I and Volume II are impeachment worthy. I also believe any other President before this one would have been impeached (with bi-partisan support) by now. There's no Barry Goldwater to march into the oval office to tell the President he's toast.

The attacks on Mueller are pathetic.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

All cable news is pretty bad, but that is probably not that far off.
If Trump doesn't win a 2nd term, odds are good he is facing some legal issues.

No clue who the woman was but the woman who asked how many times he referenced CNN, MSNBC, and FoxNews, was my my favorite. She said he made about 150 references to those stations and she could have had the same information for $50 per month instead of $25 million. Lol

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

He can't be charged with a crime so the process would be to begin the impeachment inquiry. Democrats are hesitant to due so for political reasons, but there is a lot of evidence to suggest that Trump broke the law.

Did these people take an oath to do what’s best for the country or their own political future? If they don’t have the guts to do what they believe is in the best interest of the country because of their own partisan interests, get new people in there with some balls. We pay for them. If they are serving themselves first and country second....now that’s a shame.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Mueller didn't deliver a Cabaret style song and dance, so the actual contents of the report are invalid. Good lord, what a partisan hack take...

View embedded media

Equally as ridiculous as who cares what Hillary did, she’s not the president.

2 candidates who obstructed justice. Both should be held equally accountable. America deserves better.

 

[Merge]

Did these people take an oath to do what’s best for the country or their own political future? If they don’t have the guts to do what they believe is in the best interest of the country because of their own partisan interests, get new people in there with some balls. We pay for them. If they are serving themselves first and country second....now that’s a shame.

It's slightly more complex than that.
Even if Democrats believe that Trump committed a crimes and agree to impeach him, the republicans in the Senate aren't convicting him... So they won't move on impeachment unless they find something else in their other inquiries.

 

[Merge]

Equally as ridiculous as who cares what Hillary did, she’s not the president.

2 candidates who obstructed justice. Both should be held equally accountable. America deserves better.

Nothing preventing the DOJ from pursuing a charge against Clinton if they believe she would be found guilty.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Nothing preventing the DOJ from pursuing a charge against Clinton if they believe she would be found guilty.

Yes it’s elites in the DOJ protecting another elite in government

 

[HALL85]

Yes it’s elites in the DOJ protecting another elite in government

Exactly. It’s a game, and who loses? The American public.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

It's slightly more complex than that.
Even if Democrats believe that Trump committed a crimes and agree to impeach him, the republicans in the Senate aren't convicting him... So they won't move on impeachment unless they find something else in their other inquiries.

So they won’t do the right thing and be on the right side of history because of the Senate? That’s weak

 

[Merge]

So they won’t do the right thing and be on the right side of history because of the Senate? That’s weak

As I mentioned above. I believe impeachment would actually be bad for the country.
Not quite as black and white as you are trying to make it out to be.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

As I mentioned above. I believe impeachment would actually be bad for the country.
Not quite as black and white as you are trying to make it out to be.

Impeachment would be bad because in 3 years they have nothing definitive. Are they going to spend 8.5 years looking for something? What a waste of money. That’s $25 mil that could’ve spent on upgrades to the detention centers.

 

[Merge]

Impeachment would be bad because in 3 years they have nothing definitive. Are they going to spend 8.5 years looking for something? What a waste of money. That’s $25 mil that could’ve spent on upgrades to the detention centers.

You're a bit all over the place on this one.

Impeachment would be bad because it would further divide the country. If nothing else comes out of any additional inquires, the senate would not convict Trump because of obstruction of justice and we have not accomplished anything.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

You're a bit all over the place on this one.

Impeachment would be bad because it would further divide the country. If nothing else comes out of any additional inquires, the senate would not convict Trump because of obstruction of justice and we have not accomplished anything.

I’m in the same spot on this one.

Impeachment would only divide the country if there was no evidence. I think most Americans are reasonable. If you have the goods on a guy, we will listen and be fair. If you’re impeaching based on speculation, you’re going to divide the country. They have nothing to impeach him and will continue to search which IS dividing the country.

 

[Pirata]

If you take an objective look at the impeachment process it will never fly.
For arguments sake let's say they bring the articles of impeachment. At that point you have what amounts to a trial and evidence will have to be presented. The only evidence they will have to present will be the Mueller report.

There is not enough in the mall report to conclusively show that a crime was committed. That not was standing some strong left leading Democrats will vote yes for impeachment. another group of Democrats will see that there is no conclusive evidence and will not support it. Republicans will have a very small majority that would support it. The odds of it getting out of the house are slim. Like it or not the House and Senate are in essence a large jury and the vote will not be decided on the merit of the case but on the political ramifications.

For arguments sake again let's say it gets out of the House and now it goes to the Senate. The same thing will happen, however with the Republicans controlling the majority and the nature of the Senate to be much more cautious with this kind of a vote the odds are essentially zero that it would pass.

The result will be a lot of political capital will be expended nothing will be accomplished and the country will be even more fractured. Nadler, the squad, and other hardcore leftists and Trump haters will use the process as best they can for their gain. The political theater will be even more intense than what we saw in the recent Mueller hearing.

Regardless of whether they impeach or not it is my belief that Trump will have a second term.

Pelosi is smart enough to know that going down the impeachment road is pointless and very damaging for her party let alone the country.

It may make some people happy to go through the process because of their hatred for Trump.

 

[Merge]

I’m in the same spot on this one.

Impeachment would only divide the country if there was no evidence. I think most Americans are reasonable. If you have the goods on a guy, we will listen and be fair. If you’re impeaching based on speculation, you’re going to divide the country. They have nothing to impeach him and will continue to search which IS dividing the country.

What I said was "We either have to believe that Trump did not commit obstruction of justice, or we have to believe that obstruction of justice is a crime that the president is allowed to commit while in office."

My personal belief is that Trump would have been charged of obstruction if he were not president. Mueller was not able to charge him due to the OLC opinion that you can not charge a sitting president and even noted in the report that there are other channels to hold him accountable. The proper channel would be an impeachment inquiry.