#137 for SHU in national universities latest rankings out today. Not trending the right way. I know rankings should be taken with grain of salt but perceptions matter. Particularly some of the names ahead of SHU. No good reason not to be in 75-100 range..
New US News Rankings
- Thread starter SHUMAN
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The goal under Dr. Esteban was Top 75 overall and Top 5 Catholic and we were trending that way. What happened!? 137 is embarrassing. We need to do a lot better.
Other schools with less resources have made the jump in rankings. Not sure what the issues are here.
I’m amazed that anyone would quote Esteban, especially now. His comments are and were laughable. I haven’t checked but I’m sure that DePaul is top 75…
Is it really that bad though? Ahead of Duquesne, JMU, Alabama, SDSU, Oregon State, Ole Miss, Oklahoma State, Nebraska, St. John's, Xavier, LSU, Arkansas, Houston, URI and cheaper local alternatives Montclair State, Rowan and Stockton.
I would not focus on rankings. The quality of our freshmen continues to improve so in the medium term we will be fine.
How is this possible? I just received an email from Seton Hall where their Freshman class this year had an average SAT score of 1300. Are the rankings a lie or was that information from Seton Hall a lie? https://www.shu.edu/news/class-of-2...cial+media&utm_campaign=shu_social_media_ay23
Need to look at the methodology and reverse engineer to improve our relevant metrics. We should be aggressive in our pursuit of excellence. Personally not happy with accepting that we are higher ranked than Alabama. Should that be the benchmark? Why can't be be at the level of a Villanova?
I agree with you methodology but to your last question it’s $$$$ it’s always $$$. We are very poor in terms of cash flow and strategy.
Every single college and university (with very, very few exceptions) sets a new standard every year and produces the same sort of news story every year. Scores of all standardized tests keep rising nationally, the pool of students who attend college keeps growing more and more diverse, and average GPA goes up everywhere, too, with the increased emphasis on high school classes with weighted GPAs.
If you are not reporting new highs in these categories every year, you are probably doing something wrong and falling further behind.
Also, we are not a research university (which is fine; it's our purpose), are not selective, and have a pretty poor alumni giving rate.
Has to be a way to get slightly more selective , the alumni giving rate is a mess and I don’t see it getting any better.
The strongest schools are getting stronger and weaker schools are getting much weaker. SHU is getting more selective but so are the schools ranked above. Lack of endowment/alumni giving hurts as does the fact that we are not a research university. As long as selectivity continues to improve, we are fine.
The nearly 1300 SAT average for the freshmen class is misleading since Seton Hall like many other colleges allows you to opt out of taking the SAT. Mostly, the applicants who take it are the ones with excellent previous scores.
Factors that go into the ranking that hurt Seton Hall are our % of alums that make financial contributions and the transfer rate of students leaving the Hall. The giving rate is low compared to many schools and the transfer rate is high.
Factors that go into the ranking that hurt Seton Hall are our % of alums that make financial contributions and the transfer rate of students leaving the Hall. The giving rate is low compared to many schools and the transfer rate is high.
I think they took a step toward it a couple years ago when they began that program to steeply discount tuition for many students - something to on par with the price of Rutgers, but I forget the details - to become more attractive to higher-ranked students, but that only goes so far. At the end of the day, you can only offer yourself to students, and they either want it or they don't.
That said, access has always been part of our charge from the archdiocese. We were never bound to become too selective, even if it were an option.
I would take these with a grain of salt, we have seen multiple institutions get caught up in "gaming" the system (Rutgers Business School, Temple business school). With even Columbia admitting to submitting inaccurate data a few days ago, its a constant problem.
Really? Which schools jumped to top 75 with fewer resources than SHU? There are none.
Top 10% in your HS class I believe, and get in-state tuition. was a good idea....assume they still do this
I said made a jump, not into top 75. But Gonzaga, Elon, Clark, NJIT all have similar endowments / size yet they are in top 100. These are not academic powerhouses with deep pockets and huge endowments.
I remember when i transfered from Marist, which had a small class environment, easy to get in touch w professor and meet for questions or extra help to Rutgers. Rutgers was always top 60 70 and an awful learning environment. Hundreds of kids in a lecture hall, many classes just mid term and final exam, nothing inbetween. I remember my accounting class had 70 students. Good luck asking questions after class when the TA had 10 min to spare, limited office hours by professor, sometimes never showed up for office hours. Most employers could care less where u went to school or what your gpa was.
I don’t care about DePaul’s rankings, I care about Seton Hall’s and they are currently abysmal.
BTW, when Esteban was here we were ranked 118! Not great but certainly a hell of a lot better than where we are now!
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Yes, it is. Do you want to be among the best of the best or the best of the rest? You also need to look at what goes into the rankings. If we are falling in the rankings then we are failing in key indicators that make up those rankings.
Methodology is described here FWIW.
Exactly! Some here are happy with mediocrity. I’m not one of those people! Villanova wasn’t even ranked with the national schools, they were ranked with the regional schools. Someone also wants to puff their chest out because we are ahead of Montclair, Rowan and Stockton!? Good grief doesn’t anyone have any pride!? Mediocrity takes no work at all, becoming the best of the best does. Some here are happy to do nothing, that’s lazy in my book and totally unacceptable.
Always the fault of the alumni, right!? Is anyone else ever held accountable!?
Check your math. NJIT is state funded and thus has far more resources than a private. Which of these took a big Jim within 5 years? Don’t include institutions that were put in this category for the first time recently (eg Nova and Creighton).
Elon’ s endowment is 30% larger than SHU and its enrollment is 30% lower. Combined that is an enormous difference.
Not an SHU grad so have no dog in the fight. But isn’t this a bit like recruiting in that: (1) it’s a bit silly to think there’s a big difference between 75 and 95*—it’s more about the range you find yourself in; and (2) sort of relatedly, you can’t really create a strict ranking of schools because different people want different experiences—the goal should be to be a good fit for the students you hope to recruit. Not everyone needs to be a Harvard or a Michigan or a John Hopkins.
* Grad school might be a bit different—e.g., there is big drop off after top 15 or so schools in terms of employment outcomes.
* Grad school might be a bit different—e.g., there is big drop off after top 15 or so schools in terms of employment outcomes.
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