NJ GOP really going after the big issues

[HALL85]

That is exactly my point though. I disagree that plastic waste is an immaterial issue. It’s obviously bad, and we obviously should be replacing plastic as much as possible to the waste will stop leeching into our soil and water.

Plastic waste as a whole is important, but plastic straws are such a minuscule contributor, it is a waste of time and creates even more pushback. The public bought into recycling years ago. Why not just throw the straws in the recycle bins?

The problem is that the majority of people do not care about the issue so politicians can’t possibly do something that would be meaningful there. so they start small with something that they can pass that will have an immaterial impact on people’s lives while waiting for the public to catch up.

I disagree. The public supports recycling. It’s silly laws they don’t support.

That’s not how it works in practice though. If you push bills that are good but unpopular, you’re out of office and will be replaced by someone who is against the progress you want so what have you accomplished?

The public opinion needs to be swayed in order to add meaningful legislation.

 

[Merge]

Plastic waste as a whole is important, but plastic straws are such a minuscule contributor, it is a waste of time and creates even more pushback. The public bought into recycling years ago. Why not just throw the straws in the recycle bins?

So instead of getting rid of them because we know they are bad, lets just throw them in the bin of stuff that isn't really going to be recycled so we can feel good about ourselves?

The public bought into recycling because they were sold lies about the effectiveness. Plastic doesn't really get recycled.

The who point of going after straws specifically was because no one really needs a straw (just drink from the cup) and it was to bring awareness to the idea that single use plastic is bad. That is directly from the groups pushing for the straw bans.

 

[HALL85]

So instead of getting rid of them because we know they are bad, lets just throw them in the bin of stuff that isn't really going to be recycled so we can feel good about ourselves?

No, we should make sure the stuff we are still recycling gets to where it should and actually gets recycled!

The public bought into recycling because they were sold lies about the effectiveness. Plastic doesn't really get recycled.

It should get recycled. Maybe we should enforce legislation that exists.

The who point of going after straws specifically was because no one really needs a straw (just drink from the cup) and it was to bring awareness to the idea that single use plastic is bad. That is directly from the groups pushing for the straw bans.

It was dumb. Like Bloomberg banning large sodas.

 

[Merge]

No, we should make sure the stuff we are still recycling gets to where it should and actually gets recycled!

That's not the reason why it's not recycled. It's just not economically feasible to recycle the plastic that actually can be recycled (much of it cannot)

Aluminum actually can be recycled and the recycled material has value. Plastic does not.
We shipped it to China for nothing on returning cargo ships because they thought they could extract some value, then they stopped once it was not profitable for them to do so.

It should get recycled.

By who? and why would they do so at a loss?

It was dumb. Like Bloomberg banning large sodas.

Disagree. It's a small part of an inevitability.
Human's will move on from plastic at some point because we have to. It will take many small steps getting to that point.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

So instead of getting rid of them because we know they are bad, lets just throw them in the bin of stuff that isn't really going to be recycled so we can feel good about ourselves?

The public bought into recycling because they were sold lies about the effectiveness. Plastic doesn't really get recycled.

The who point of going after straws specifically was because no one really needs a straw (just drink from the cup) and it was to bring awareness to the idea that single use plastic is bad. That is directly from the groups pushing for the straw bans.

The public bought into recycling because putting something into one bin isn't changing their garbage experience. Nobody enjoys drinking from a paper straw. It makes no difference putting the garbage in this bin or the next bin for most people. For decades people had no issues drinking from a straw, now people have issues drinking with a straw. That's why people get pissed about it.

What are your suggestions with kid, older people, and handicap people who rely on straws if there's an all out ban of straws?

 

[Merge]

What are your suggestions with kid, older people, and handicap people who rely on straws if there's an all out ban of straws?

We started using plastic straws in the 1960s. How did people deal with that major struggle then?

When we started using them, we didn't realize they were bad. We've learned since then that they are, so just throw our hands up and say it's too late now? We can't possibly adapt to a life without plastic straws?

 

[HALL85]

That's not the reason why it's not recycled. It's just not economically feasible to recycle the plastic that actually can be recycled (much of it cannot)

Then why are we still putting plastic into recycling bins?

Aluminum actually can be recycled and the recycled material has value. Plastic does not.
We shipped it to China for nothing on returning cargo ships because they thought they could extract some value, then they stopped once it was not profitable for them to do so.

Are we still shipping it to China (so they can dump it in the ocean? And if not, what are we now doing with all the plastic that is being separated from the waste stream?

By who? and why would they do so at a loss?



Disagree. It's a small part of an inevitability.
Human's will move on from plastic at some point because we have to. It will take many small steps getting to that point.

Shoveling sand into the ocean.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

We started using plastic straws in the 1960s. How did people deal with that major struggle then?

When we started using them, we didn't realize they were bad. We've learned since then that they are, so just throw our hands up and say it's too late now? We can't possibly adapt to a life without plastic straws?

1960s life was a lot different or no? I’d love to hear there’s one working parent and the other raising the children. People were raising their own kids. Tell me you’re giving 3 year olds drinks without a straw for the day care people all day to clean up. Are you telling your wife to make sure she’s helping your 3 year old child drink water out of a cup all day. And when she says no are you going to say it’s only a slight inconvenience? Or oh the horror?

 

[Merge]

Then why are we still putting plastic into recycling bins?

To feel good.

Are we still shipping it to China

You can look this stuff up you know. They stopped allowing imports of it in 2018.

nd if not, what are we now doing with all the plastic that is being separated from the waste stream?

Landfills mostly.

Shoveling sand into the ocean.

Bringing awareness to an issue... Though it is quite apparent by this thread that people are VERY unwilling to believe that plastic is bad.

 

[Merge]

ell me you’re giving 3 year olds drinks without a straw for the day care people all day to clean up.

A non spill kids cup with a reusable straw and lid is extraordinarily common. That's one of the things a parent brings for their child to day care.

Are you telling your wife to make sure she’s helping your 3 year old child drink water out of a cup all day.

I don't tell my wife what to do... but a normal cup with a one time use straw? No, my wife wouldn't have done that because that would have been a pain in the ass to clean up constantly when they get knocked over. We used sippy cups and then moved on to non spill cups with reusable straws, like every other parent in America.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

A non spill kids cup with a reusable straw and lid is extraordinarily common. That's one of the things a parent brings for their child to day care.



I don't tell my wife what to do... but a normal cup with a one time use straw? No, my wife wouldn't have done that because that would have been a pain in the ass to clean up constantly when they get knocked over. We used sippy cups and then moved on to non spill cups with reusable straws, like every other parent in America.

sippy cups. Yikes more plastic. Inconvenience yourself for the sake of the environment like you want the rest of us to do.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Bringing awareness to an issue... Though it is quite apparent by this thread that people are VERY unwilling to believe that plastic is bad.

Plastic is bad. But you’re ok with sippy cups and plastic bottles. Get a better version of straws and give us bags at stores and people won’t be upset. Theres no issues with replacing those items just don’t say we’re taking these things away with for a worse replacement. This is like a company firing a guy for a worse replacement. Let’s stop gas heat and replace it with candles while we’re at it.

 

[Merge]

sippy cups. Yikes more plastic. Inconvenience yourself for the sake of the environment like you want the rest of us to do.

We're talking about single use plastic straws being banned... Those don't apply.
But I'm not here to pretend to be a better steward to the earth than anyone else. I'm just saying that we know that plastic is bad. Single use plastic adds an obscene amount of waste that we should more away from. The only way companies will move away from it is if they have to.

 

[Merge]

Get a better version of straws and give us bags at stores and people won’t be upset.

That's the problem. There is no product that can economically compete with cheap plastic.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

That's the problem. There is no product that can economically compete with cheap plastic.

People aren't complaining about the economics of it. People are bitching the paper straws don't work and now we have a law that says we can't use the straws that work. If you want a straw you have to use the horrible straw.

 

[HALL85]

To feel good.



You can look this stuff up you know. They stopped allowing imports of it in 2018.



Landfills mostly.



Bringing awareness to an issue... Though it is quite apparent by this thread that people are VERY unwilling to believe that plastic is bad.

So apparently, plastic that is collected is separated into different subsets. Some are recyclable, and others are less economical to do so. But those are cleaned shredded and used in downstream products like carpeting and some are incinerated.

Banning a product like straws while we allow all sorts of other high volume plastic products go through the system doesn’t seem like the best way to make a point. I mean, it was a running joke when it was first rolled out and it still is. How does that get people to seriously focus on the problem?

 

[Merge]

People aren't complaining about the economics of it. People are bitching the paper straws don't work and now we have a law that says we can't use the straws that work. If you want a straw you have to use the horrible straw.

Grown man bitching about straws... Go buy some straws and carry them around with you. Good lord.

 

[Merge]

So apparently, plastic that is collected is separated into different subsets. Some are recyclable, and others are less economical to do so. But those are cleaned shredded and used in downstream products like carpeting and some are incinerated.

What happens to the incinerated plastic?

Banning a product like straws while we allow all sorts of other high volume plastic products go through the system doesn’t seem like the best way to make a point.

I appreciate you think they should make the point more convincing...
How should the approach the issue that meets your needs? Not what they shouldn't do but what should they actually do that will get the point across that plastic waste is bad and that we need to move away from it?

How does that get people to seriously focus on the problem?

Education... like you learning today that the waste is no longer shipped to China, and that the majority of it is not recycled and that it ends up in landfills or incinerated (and I'll help you here) when it gets incinerated it turns to toxic ash which ends up in our air / ground and water. See? Making progress, now tell your friends.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Grown man bitching about straws... Go buy some straws and carry them around with you. Good lord.

Is that not the issue? Do you believe people would be bitching if paper straws worked? That's why the GOP is looking to get rid of the law because people want products that work. Crazy that would matter to people.

 

[HALL85]

What happens to the incinerated plastic?

It gets incinerated by a recycling plant that is equipped to do so.

I appreciate you think they should make the point more convincing...
How should the approach the issue that meets your needs? Not what they shouldn't do but what should they actually do that will get the point across that plastic waste is bad and that we need to move away from it?

Just have us put all plastics in a recycling bin like we do today.

Education... like you learning today that the waste is no longer shipped to China, and that the majority of it is not recycled and that it ends up in landfills or incinerated (and I'll help you here) when it gets incinerated it turns to toxic ash which ends up in our air / ground and water. See? Making progress, now tell your friends.

I must have struts chord…lol.

 

[Merge]

Just have us put all plastics in a recycling bin like we do today

So you’ve now learned that plastic is not recycled, you’ve learned that it goes in landfills and is incinerated which emits toxic chemicals into the air and water and you think the “best way to make a point” which is what I asked you for, is to do nothing? Great answer.

I must have struts chord…lol.

Not at all. I’ve helped you learn something you didn’t know when you came into this thread. That’s the whole point. Raise awareness that single use plastic is bad for the environment.

You can be apathetic to that point if you choose.

You’re allowed to just say that you don’t care that plastic is bad and still want it and you don’t want the government to do anything about it, but at least you’re more informed about the fact that it really isn’t recycled like you thought it was.

 

[HALL85]

So you’ve now learned that plastic is not recycled, you’ve learned that it goes in landfills and is incinerated which emits toxic chemicals into the air and water and you think the “best way to make a point” which is what I asked you for, is to do nothing? Great answer.

No, I am doing something..:the most important thing. Putting all my plastic waste in one container and letting the recycling plant (the expert) manage it.

Not at all. I’ve helped you learn something you didn’t know when you came into this thread. That’s the whole point. Raise awareness that single use plastic is bad for the environment.

You’re not that good…lol

You can be apathetic to that point if you choose.

I don’t waste my time getting behind immaterial issues like overthinking like straw legislation. I support Bill Maher’s POV.

You’re allowed to just say that you don’t care that plastic is bad and still want it and you don’t want the government to do anything about it, but at least you’re more informed about the fact that it really isn’t recycled like you thought it was.

But it is managed by the expert. And my cat may be enjoying laying on his rug that has recycled straw fibers.