He’s a reasonably good player who scores on a bad team by volume shooting. If he comes back next year, he’ll be looking for a pay day somewhere else for his senior season. I don’t believe that Sha is enamored with his game. Other than Godswill, strictly on potential, all others can be replaced with equal or better players.
No Reason to Overpay for Isaiah
- Thread starter Blueswayedshus
- Start date
Don’t fall into the trap of counting the school’s money for them. They’ve skimped on players two years in a row. They need to invest in next year’s team. A top 10-15 returning BE player is going to be costly on the open market. Coleman is not a perfect player, but he’s only a soph and has a high floor and high ceiling. He’s also a homegrown player and not some mercenary. They need to get this one done.
Also very interesting what was said on the broadcast about how Shaka built his team - no incoming transfers and as a result he's had success keeping his guys from transferring out. It makes them attractive to freshmen because they don't have to worry about getting recruited over on the transfer market and as long as they have the NIL money to take care of their guys sufficiently, the players won't feel like they need to leave to get paid. Obviously projects looking to maximize their earnings may still leave, but keep them happy enough and it's generally going to be cheaper to retain guys than to bid on transfers.
I posted elsewhere on this topic.
Loyalties are two-way street. It is just not a matter of money and any one student that has money as his/her primary factor, is not the student athlete for Sha or the school. I agree that money is a factor and understand the need for a competitive NIL (having more knowledge about the creation of the NIL industry than I am going to make publicly known). But as long as we're in the ballpark there should be other factors that a student will or should consider.
Reflect on what happened with Richmond. Money was a factor, no doubt, as was the balance of the roster. Even if Davis and Dylon stayed, the roster was an unknown. He was going to be the lead player on any team he chose.
Coleman, on the other hand, is not at the level of either Richmond or Davis. Seriously think of the teams that are top five in the conference. Would he be a starter on any of those teams or simply a rotational player. He's obviously in need of building muscle strength and does not have the fire or killer instinct necessary to be the alpha on any team at this level. While I agree with the above posters that we should make a bona fide run at him, I wouldn't, however. back up the Brinks truck to keep him.
Loyalties are two-way street. It is just not a matter of money and any one student that has money as his/her primary factor, is not the student athlete for Sha or the school. I agree that money is a factor and understand the need for a competitive NIL (having more knowledge about the creation of the NIL industry than I am going to make publicly known). But as long as we're in the ballpark there should be other factors that a student will or should consider.
Reflect on what happened with Richmond. Money was a factor, no doubt, as was the balance of the roster. Even if Davis and Dylon stayed, the roster was an unknown. He was going to be the lead player on any team he chose.
Coleman, on the other hand, is not at the level of either Richmond or Davis. Seriously think of the teams that are top five in the conference. Would he be a starter on any of those teams or simply a rotational player. He's obviously in need of building muscle strength and does not have the fire or killer instinct necessary to be the alpha on any team at this level. While I agree with the above posters that we should make a bona fide run at him, I wouldn't, however. back up the Brinks truck to keep him.
He’s a sophomore. Richmond and Davis were seniors. Think of what Dre and Kadary were as sophomores. Dre was the 6th man on an NIT team. Kadary was an inefficient 3rd option on an 8 seed. Kids get better as they get older.
Get Coleman to come back for a myriad of reasons.
We all talk about not wanting to be a stepping stone school. This is a key moment to say “don’t f*#k with our guys” to other coaches.
While it won’t stop other coaches from poaching, of course (and us, either), it sends a message to kids that they can not just use SHU as a showcase for other schools.
You want kids to think they can stay for multiple years and get better under Sha. Just have to pay what their rate is—especially if other schools dictate that rate.
We all talk about not wanting to be a stepping stone school. This is a key moment to say “don’t f*#k with our guys” to other coaches.
While it won’t stop other coaches from poaching, of course (and us, either), it sends a message to kids that they can not just use SHU as a showcase for other schools.
You want kids to think they can stay for multiple years and get better under Sha. Just have to pay what their rate is—especially if other schools dictate that rate.
If he wanted to come back he wouldn't have hired an agency to represent him.
He’s going to be getting a high 6-figure or low 7-figure contract next year. Whether he stays or leaves, he needs an agent.
If this is true God help us . Like him but lots of holes in his game
Why would he need an agency if he was planning on returning? He’s going to the highest bidder.
Maybe he feels uncomfortable negotiating directly with Sha. Maybe he wants someone who knows his market value to negotiate on his behalf. Maybe the agent is offering services post-graduation. There’s three off the top of my head.
What is overpaying?? Who says what is over paying? Are the teams in the top 20 overpaying? Is BYU overpaying for their prize freshman?? I don’t get this idea of overpaying. How do you measure overpaying if you’re Texas??
Very likely true. Why pay the fees to an agent if you are not shopping around? Can easily interview agents as you do before you sell your house to understand market value. I don't see this ending well. We should pay him what his market value is, assuming it's fair. If he chooses to move on, don't let the door hit you from behind.
Thinking anyone is going to stay 4 years in this day and age is incredibly naive. It's a different time.
Set an internal value for him. If it's exceeded, move on. This player is not worth blowing most of the budget on.
This. The news yesterday says it all about how this is going to end up. It's roughly equivalent to when Jay Wright, Pitino, and some in the media pumped Willard for Maryland in February of 2022. It's that time of year when people start thinking about their next move, and this is how they lay the groundwork.
If not Zay, then who? I’d rather allocate my $ to the guys who are “our” guys than go and overpay for a mid-major player or a former 4-star recruit who has not met his potential. We’ve tried that and the results are telling.
These agents are taking 20% on these NIL deals. If he's looking at low 7 figures, paying someone $200,000 just because you are "uncomfortable" doesn't sit well with me. He's looking to maximize his money and there's a very good chance he's going to get offers that exceed what we will be willing to pay. The question for him is "how much" is enough and whether the differential is worth him leaving.
Loyalty is a near non-existent term in the vocabulary of the "student athlete" these days.
And me, you and a few others here got excoriated at the time for suggesting it was no coincidence Willard’s ally’s were publicly doing so and that it was because he wanted out.
Exactly. Seton Hall's season is going to end on March 12, which is only 3 weeks away. The sleazeball agent, Dawkins, is probably already hard at work at finding Coleman's next destination.
I gave you three reasons…of course he wants to maximize his income. That’s what agents do.
As he should. He’s already being tampered with and needs help sorting through it to get the best offer.
I don’t think it precludes us, but we have to be competitive with what others are willing to pay. Simple market here. We can’t be coming in at $500k if others are at $800k, that’s dumb.
We can now see why too. Look at what he’s got at Maryland and the resources. He knew The Hall’s take on NIL.
If that’s accurate you’d have to think Sha also knew the Hall’s take on NIL yet he took the job anyway & still got blindsided. Just a really bad situation we find ourselves in with little confidence that our current leadership knows how to fix it.
We desperately need a GM.
We desperately need a GM.
Lots of Kool-Aid drinking by all involved, including Sha. Actually having an “insider” and “favorite son” made it worse IMO.
But Sha took them over the coals on his contract.
They’re all learning now.
I would surprised if any starting major conference player didn’t have an agent
All depends on the compensation amount. 5-10% maybe. 20% NFW.
All depends on the compensation amount. 5-10% maybe. 20% NFW.
That's basically what I was trying to imply in my previous post. If Coleman is willing to give up 20% of his NIL so he can have an agent negotiate it for him, he's as good as gone IMO. They will find him a program willing to pay him more than we'll be able to. Whatever we offer, it now has to be 20% more than anyone else just to bridge the gap in the fees and put us on equal footing. I really don't see that happening. Maybe I'm wrong.
Thanks. Are players signing for more than one year? Are any of ours? Will we ever know?
Contracting is the only way to stability in this mess. It seems like it’s happening in some places but not sure we’ll ever know.
I’m a big Coleman supporter. He’s better than Richmond or Dre were as sophomores. I don’t think he’s reached his ceiling. Of course, it’s all about $ but I think we should pay what we can to keep him.
In addition, I would keep Godswill, Prince and, yes, Dual. Godswill’s showing he belongs. Prince is effective out to 10 feet. Plays tough. Dual is raw, but we should be able to afford him and he’s shown potential IMHO.
Felton and Gus are right price people. Felton shows some offensive potential but needs to work on his handle and defense. Gus is a decent deep reserve.
In addition, I would keep Godswill, Prince and, yes, Dual. Godswill’s showing he belongs. Prince is effective out to 10 feet. Plays tough. Dual is raw, but we should be able to afford him and he’s shown potential IMHO.
Felton and Gus are right price people. Felton shows some offensive potential but needs to work on his handle and defense. Gus is a decent deep reserve.
Coleman is a sophomore on a terrible team with no help. I think he could def be the next SHU star player and will get better with balance. Put a SG and interior scorer around him. He has all the skills: Shooting, slashing, rebounding, adequate ball handler, can play defense. He’s made a big time jump this year overall.
Being the best player on a terrible team can lead to bad habits bc you have to do too much (like his defense annd shot selection at times). And Sha’s been pushing him to be the alpha.
Being the best player on a terrible team can lead to bad habits bc you have to do too much (like his defense annd shot selection at times). And Sha’s been pushing him to be the alpha.
And I do think it’s important to retain our best player for a change and show we can. It also helps the donation process, branding, identity, strategy, selling, etc. We have lost our best players two years running under Sha and this regime. That’s a problem. We look inept.
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