Observations from a 79-51 blow out loss to St. John’s

[LeftCoastPirates]

Honestly not much to say this time around. The students in attendance tried to create an atmosphere around Kadary. But that energy got drained from the building following a 1-19 start from the floor by the Pirates.

BLUE TINTED GLASSES

• If you wear them, go right ahead and fill in the blanks, because I have absolutely nothing to include in this section.

SOUR GRAPES AND GRIPES

• I don’t want to hear about the deflections and steals Dual had. He is a train wreck on the offensive side of the ball. After two games of extended minutes, he makes you badly desire DAW back at PG.
• Our situation at center is bleak. The production we get from our 3 headed effort is non-existent, both offensively and defensively. Combined - 7 points 9 rebounds - 10 fouls. Meanwhile Ejiofor had 15 and 9 in 24 minutes and their frosh blocked 5 shots.
• The secret is out. Stop Coleman (1/13) and Jenkins (1/7) and Seton Hall won’t be able to break 60 points.
• The team has no PG, 17 turnovers leading to 29 SJU points, most of them highlight dunks. And I am not touching the Harmon topic with a 10 foot pole after reading the other thread.
• Today, the team couldn’t shoot, pass, dribble, or hold onto the ball. And I am not sure how much credit I can give St. John’s for that. Tim Brandon summed it up in the first half when he said “I have never seen so many bunnies turn into bricks.”

I guess if I wanted to go back to the Blue Tinted Glasses section, I am shocked they didn’t lose by 40+ today.

 

[Seton00]

Honestly not much to say this time around. The students in attendance tried to create an atmosphere around Kadary. But that energy got drained from the building following a 1-19 start from the floor by the Pirates.

BLUE TINTED GLASSES

• If you wear them, go right ahead and fill in the blanks, because I have absolutely nothing to include in this section.

SOUR GRAPES AND GRIPES

• I don’t want to hear about the deflections and steals Dual had. He is a train wreck on the offensive side of the ball. After two games of extended minutes, he makes you badly desire DAW back at PG.
• Our situation at center is bleak. The production we get from our 3 headed effort is non-existent, both offensively and defensively. Combined - 7 points 9 rebounds - 10 fouls. Meanwhile Ejiofor had 15 and 9 in 24 minutes and their frosh blocked 5 shots.
• The secret is out. Stop Coleman (1/13) and Jenkins (1/7) and Seton Hall won’t be able to break 60 points.
• The team has no PG, 17 turnovers leading to 29 SJU points, most of them highlight dunks. And I am not touching the Harmon topic with a 10 foot pole after reading the other thread.
• Today, the team couldn’t shoot, pass, dribble, or hold onto the ball. And I am not sure how much credit I can give St. John’s for that. Tim Brandon summed it up in the first half when he said “I have never seen so many bunnies turn into bricks.”

I guess if I wanted to go back to the Blue Tinted Glasses section, I am shocked they didn’t lose by 40+ today.

Nothing I can argue with here. I will say, they did show more heart in the 2nd half, but just didn't have the horses to make it a game.

Pun intended. 🤣

 

[TheHall87]

Honestly not much to say this time around. The students in attendance tried to create an atmosphere around Kadary. But that energy got drained from the building following a 1-19 start from the floor by the Pirates.

BLUE TINTED GLASSES

• If you wear them, go right ahead and fill in the blanks, because I have absolutely nothing to include in this section.

SOUR GRAPES AND GRIPES

• I don’t want to hear about the deflections and steals Dual had. He is a train wreck on the offensive side of the ball. After two games of extended minutes, he makes you badly desire DAW back at PG.
• Our situation at center is bleak. The production we get from our 3 headed effort is non-existent, both offensively and defensively. Combined - 7 points 9 rebounds - 10 fouls. Meanwhile Ejiofor had 15 and 9 in 24 minutes and their frosh blocked 5 shots.
• The secret is out. Stop Coleman (1/13) and Jenkins (1/7) and Seton Hall won’t be able to break 60 points.
• The team has no PG, 17 turnovers leading to 29 SJU points, most of them highlight dunks. And I am not touching the Harmon topic with a 10 foot pole after reading the other thread.
• Today, the team couldn’t shoot, pass, dribble, or hold onto the ball. And I am not sure how much credit I can give St. John’s for that. Tim Brandon summed it up in the first half when he said “I have never seen so many bunnies turn into bricks.”

I guess if I wanted to go back to the Blue Tinted Glasses section, I am shocked they didn’t lose by 40+ today.

Small correction. We started 1-21. We were at 4.8% when Jenkins made his shot.

It's never a good sign when the opposing point guard has more assists than you have baskets or two kids dressed in cow suits make more field goals than you do in a half.

On a side note, thank the lord for Prince Aligbe making a shot before the first media timeout. I was having visions of standing for most of the first half.

 

[dehere23]

Honestly not much to say this time around. The students in attendance tried to create an atmosphere around Kadary. But that energy got drained from the building following a 1-19 start from the floor by the Pirates.

BLUE TINTED GLASSES

• If you wear them, go right ahead and fill in the blanks, because I have absolutely nothing to include in this section.

SOUR GRAPES AND GRIPES

• I don’t want to hear about the deflections and steals Dual had. He is a train wreck on the offensive side of the ball. After two games of extended minutes, he makes you badly desire DAW back at PG.
• Our situation at center is bleak. The production we get from our 3 headed effort is non-existent, both offensively and defensively. Combined - 7 points 9 rebounds - 10 fouls. Meanwhile Ejiofor had 15 and 9 in 24 minutes and their frosh blocked 5 shots.
• The secret is out. Stop Coleman (1/13) and Jenkins (1/7) and Seton Hall won’t be able to break 60 points.
• The team has no PG, 17 turnovers leading to 29 SJU points, most of them highlight dunks. And I am not touching the Harmon topic with a 10 foot pole after reading the other thread.
• Today, the team couldn’t shoot, pass, dribble, or hold onto the ball. And I am not sure how much credit I can give St. John’s for that. Tim Brandon summed it up in the first half when he said “I have never seen so many bunnies turn into bricks.”

I guess if I wanted to go back to the Blue Tinted Glasses section, I am shocked they didn’t lose by 40+ today.

Not much to add. I thought we'd have a legit chance on this one, and picked us for the upset, because of (a) the Sport's Gods and (b) the combination of us hitting a ton of 3s, them missing 3s, no Dev Smith and us "mucking up" the game enough.

What I will say is that I actually think some of the offensive improvement/output we saw in prior games isn't a TOTAL mirage because St. John's did to us what they do to everyone right now, it seems. Pitino has them playing a Sampson/Houston level type defense, just without as much size or as many good athletes as Houston typically has in that system. They have made a lot of teams in the league and non-conference look like they can't shoot, pass, dribble or hold onto the ball. And we got the B+ version of that, because Dev Smith spearheads all that for them and he was clearly playing compromised with the shoulder.

Last observation -- something is going on between Coleman and Sha, IMO. I don't like being the "body language" doctor from TV, but after Sha's comments last game plus tonight, something is up.

 

[dehere23]

Small correction. We started 1-21. We were at 4.8% when Jenkins made his shot.

It's never a good sign when the opposing point guard has more assists than you have baskets or two kids dressed in cow suits make more field goals than you do in a half.

On a side note, thank the lord for Prince Aligbe making a shot before the first media timeout. I was having visions of standing for most of the first half.

Prince continues to look like he may actually be able to give us something as a small ball 4 against certain teams. The problem is when you face a team that has the athletes and/or size that SJU does and plays team defense like they do, its much more difficult than against the Depaul's, Butler's and even Providence's of the world.

 

[nutterforthree]

Not much to add. I thought we'd have a legit chance on this one, and picked us for the upset, because of (a) the Sport's Gods and (b) the combination of us hitting a ton of 3s, them missing 3s, no Dev Smith and us "mucking up" the game enough.

What I will say is that I actually think some of the offensive improvement/output we saw in prior games isn't a TOTAL mirage because St. John's did to us what they do to everyone right now, it seems. Pitino has them playing a Sampson/Houston level type defense, just without as much size or as many good athletes as Houston typically has in that system. They have made a lot of teams in the league and non-conference look like they can't shoot, pass, dribble or hold onto the ball. And we got the B+ version of that, because Dev Smith spearheads all that for them and he was clearly playing compromised with the shoulder.

Last observation -- something is going on between Coleman and Sha, IMO. I don't like being the "body language" doctor from TV, but after Sha's comments last game plus tonight, something is up.

Yea he is probably pissed because he is by far the best player on the team and his coach has used the media to call him out multiple times for no reason.

 

[JTSHU]

I may have to agree. I know sha is never satisfied bit hes been very ehh about colemans performances.

 

[Wolf11642]

Does Sha realize what this team would look like without Isaiah? Sometimes I think Sha is delusionally confident and stubborn in himself that he will never figure this out

 

[Piratz]

It's a terrible basketball team that keeps setting new lows. The Blaney Years would be a significant improvement. The worst teams under Orr would manhandle this group. Heck, even Willard's worst team was significantly better than this. We're seeing historical ineptitude here. This team is not coached well either, the staff is being served some humble pie.

What a moment to lose by 30+ and have the pocket of St. John's fans chanting Kadary Richmond. Infuriating, embarrassing, but this is what we are right now.

 

[shupat08]

Does Sha realize what this team would look like without Isaiah? Sometimes I think Sha is delusionally confident and stubborn in himself that he will never figure this out

Sha's ego is too big.

Think about how many "I" statements he makes and how often he refers to himself and when he played basketball.

"Your ego is not your friend."

 

[ivyhillparkk1963]

Watching those st johns fans if that didnt piss you off as as a pirate player than who needs you. Then I think we have no one on the roster from ny/nj metro area. That's a huge issue in itself..

 

[shupat08]

Watching those st johns fans if that didnt piss you off as as a pirate player than who needs you. Then I think we have no one on the roster from ny/nj metro area. That's a huge issue in itself..

No one from NJ/NY. But none of them are "pirates" they are mercenaries looking for a chump who will pay them more than the last chump.

 

[ivyhillparkk1963]

No one from NJ/NY. But none of them are "pirates" they are mercenaries looking for a chump who will pay them more than the last chump.

That too. Sickening

 

[MBF72]

Painful and hard to watch.
Box score looked a CYO game.

 

[CaptBob]

Guess Coleman's got one foot out the door--here we go again--

 

[NYShoreGuy]

Honestly not much to say this time around. The students in attendance tried to create an atmosphere around Kadary. But that energy got drained from the building following a 1-19 start from the floor by the Pirates.

BLUE TINTED GLASSES

• If you wear them, go right ahead and fill in the blanks, because I have absolutely nothing to include in this section.

SOUR GRAPES AND GRIPES

• I don’t want to hear about the deflections and steals Dual had. He is a train wreck on the offensive side of the ball. After two games of extended minutes, he makes you badly desire DAW back at PG.
• Our situation at center is bleak. The production we get from our 3 headed effort is non-existent, both offensively and defensively. Combined - 7 points 9 rebounds - 10 fouls. Meanwhile Ejiofor had 15 and 9 in 24 minutes and their frosh blocked 5 shots.
• The secret is out. Stop Coleman (1/13) and Jenkins (1/7) and Seton Hall won’t be able to break 60 points.
• The team has no PG, 17 turnovers leading to 29 SJU points, most of them highlight dunks. And I am not touching the Harmon topic with a 10 foot pole after reading the other thread.
• Today, the team couldn’t shoot, pass, dribble, or hold onto the ball. And I am not sure how much credit I can give St. John’s for that. Tim Brandon summed it up in the first half when he said “I have never seen so many bunnies turn into bricks.”

I guess if I wanted to go back to the Blue Tinted Glasses section, I am shocked they didn’t lose by 40+ today.

Pitino is perfect scheme coach to take away coleman and jenkins

 

[ivyhillparkk1963]

Guess Coleman's got one foot out the door--here we go again--

To go Where? He had a terrible game yesterday . Very soft on both sides of the ball. I realized he was excellent at foul line though..

 

[shupat08]

Pitino is perfect scheme coach to take away coleman and jenkins

Jenkins isn't very good.

 

[HallPirate]

Need to do the opposite of what we are doing. Recruit for offense and teach them defense.

 

[SPK145]

Honestly not much to say this time around. The students in attendance tried to create an atmosphere around Kadary. But that energy got drained from the building following a 1-19 start from the floor by the Pirates.

BLUE TINTED GLASSES

• If you wear them, go right ahead and fill in the blanks, because I have absolutely nothing to include in this section.

SOUR GRAPES AND GRIPES

• I don’t want to hear about the deflections and steals Dual had. He is a train wreck on the offensive side of the ball. After two games of extended minutes, he makes you badly desire DAW back at PG.
• Our situation at center is bleak. The production we get from our 3 headed effort is non-existent, both offensively and defensively. Combined - 7 points 9 rebounds - 10 fouls. Meanwhile Ejiofor had 15 and 9 in 24 minutes and their frosh blocked 5 shots.
• The secret is out. Stop Coleman (1/13) and Jenkins (1/7) and Seton Hall won’t be able to break 60 points.
• The team has no PG, 17 turnovers leading to 29 SJU points, most of them highlight dunks. And I am not touching the Harmon topic with a 10 foot pole after reading the other thread.
• Today, the team couldn’t shoot, pass, dribble, or hold onto the ball. And I am not sure how much credit I can give St. John’s for that. Tim Brandon summed it up in the first half when he said “I have never seen so many bunnies turn into bricks.”

I guess if I wanted to go back to the Blue Tinted Glasses section, I am shocked they didn’t lose by 40+ today.

Mic drop.

 

[hallgrad80]

It's a terrible basketball team that keeps setting new lows. The Blaney Years would be a significant improvement. The worst teams under Orr would manhandle this group. Heck, even Willard's worst team was significantly better than this. We're seeing historical ineptitude here. This team is not coached well either, the staff is being served some humble pie.

What a moment to lose by 30+ and have the pocket of St. John's fans chanting Kadary Richmond. Infuriating, embarrassing, but this is what we are right now.

With little to no chance to reverse what we’re seeing on the court .

 

[bornApirate]

Need to do the opposite of what we are doing. Recruit for offense and teach them defense.

Recruit a more skilled smarter but less athletic player. I see a bunch of athletes on the team that have a low basketball IQ and very little basketball skill.

 

[Seton75]

imo the booing helped jumpstart sju. gave kr a kick in the ass so he took over early. shockingly i totally agree with pitinos comments on this.

coleman played a sub par game. he missed shots he often makes and he drove into the teeth of the d constantly to little effect. doesnt know yet how to finish and isnt strong enough . not good not smart.

the man against boys aspect of the game was embarassing. seeing andre b, reminded me of dre as a frosh vs dre as a sr - so much stronger. the kid became a man over time. we look like kids.

again...the offense is a mess. waste time for 20 seconds then struggle for a bad shot. not smart - just drive and drive and miss and get blocked or tied up. pull up. kick it out. do something different. work something to get a good shooter a good look - impossible.

missing daw should tell us who is really our best pg. it is the guy who usnt a pg - daw. felton today is a 2g. dual...his time running the team was brutal. then he strips kr twice and even makes a 3.

if i am playing a center - its godswill. he only sits when in foul trouble. hit the weights please.

i used to take mass transit to alumni in the mid 80s. a sj season ticket holder friend didnt think watching us was worth his time. i dont remember it as bad as last night.

nice uniforms...

 

[SPK145]

Recruit a more skilled smarter but less athletic player. I see a bunch of athletes on the team that have a low basketball IQ and very little basketball skill.

And I don't think they are any more athletic than players on other teams.

 

[jack 1970]

It's getting worse as the season progresses.Could be the worst SHU team since we entered the BE.The season can't end soon enough.

How did we get in this situation?OK the NIL or lack thereof.Where was the Administration,BOR and Athletic Dept. with a strategic plan to make sure that didn't happen in advance of this collapse?SHU has a degree in being asleep at the swatch.

 

[SHUsez]

I sold my tickets to yesterday's game and then yesterday morning realized that it was the 25th anniversary of beating st johns and the subsequent events that followed. I was kicking myself thinking well we are due for a how did we do that game and thought the stars would align. Then watching pre game I saw the black unis and said nope we're screwed. I'm happy I got lucky enough to cover one of our seats for the season. This is just flat out brutal.

 

[bornApirate]

And I don't think they are any more athletic than players on other teams.

Correct but I would be okay with players that don’t have a huge vertical jump but can shoot the lights out and have a high basketball IQ. Play an aggressive zone defense if you don’t have length and athleticism and bring in someone to teach an offense. This is a complete 180 of Sha currently but I think thats where to find diamonds in the rough.

 

[NYC Pirate]

That game was lost in the first 10 minutes maybe sooner than that. I thought he should have started Felton instead of forcing Jenkins into that role. By doing that it took away Jenkin's ability to concentrate on shooting. Felton is more of a 2G than a PG as we all can see, but he creates more of a stable offensive set than the others. The energy/karma was so erratic early in that game. Sha is just enamored with attacking the rim and you could tell right away it wasn't going to happen on this night. Yet he allowed one guy after another (Jenkins, Coleman, Prince) to force the issue. He needed a reset right away and change the game plan. Well, it got worse and even Coleman was all fouled up. Certainly, a very off night. Give SJU credit. Well coached and more talent, but watching our joyless team perform in the Marquee home game was a bad look.

 

[Seton75]

felton plays pg like dual. 10 seconds dribbling at half court. today he is a 2g. i am all for giving him time at the 1 to learn but it aint pretty.

 

[dehere23]

felton plays pg like dual. 10 seconds dribbling at half court. today he is a 2g. i am all for giving him time at the 1 to learn but it aint pretty.

Yup. Felton has a nice shot when he's given time and open. But when he was handling the ball last night, it was clear the SJU kids were "up" on the scouting report, because they were proactively pressuring and attacking him like a piranha to chum.

 

[Pirate Russ]

I would love to know the amount of time we have led in our home big east games, and also how much in all the big east games. I would be shocked if we had the lead more than a combined 15 minutes in all the Big East games combined. Just awful.

 

[NYC Pirate]

Yup. Felton has a nice shot when he's given time and open. But when he was handling the ball last night, it was clear the SJU kids were "up" on the scouting report, because they were proactively pressuring and attacking him like a piranha to chum.

He doesn't have to handle and go to the rim. All he has to do is try to pass the ball to Jenkins and Middleton. and Coleman. Plus, if he's open he can shoot. He's not a turnover machine. He did not come into the game until like 10 minutes had passed in the first half?? The rushed cadence of the first many minutes was alarming. If The Hall scored some points it may have given them more energy. How does it look when Dual, Prince, Tubek and Godswill are out there or a variation of that?? I'd rather lose 100-75 taking 35 three pointers than watch that putrid approach to offense.

 

[Seton75]

prince has improved 100 % since the beginning. last night like the rest of us he forced it closer and closer to the rim like he was 6-10. but in most games he gets good shots. what was maddening was a guy getting 8 good shots. getting them all off and making 1. now he is usually making his share. cept for last night.

and if i have to have a big on the floor it will be godswill.

 

[Piratz]

felton plays pg like dual. 10 seconds dribbling at half court. today he is a 2g. i am all for giving him time at the 1 to learn but it aint pretty.

Yup. Felton has a nice shot when he's given time and open. But when he was handling the ball last night, it was clear the SJU kids were "up" on the scouting report, because they were proactively pressuring and attacking him like a piranha to chum.

Felton is not a PG. He’s doesn’t move quick enough, his dribble is too high and slow, he’s not athletic enough on corners.

He’s a backup BE 2G IMO.

 

[LeftCoastPirates]

I would love to know the amount of time we have led in our home big east games, and also how much in all the big east games. I would be shocked if we had the lead more than a combined 15 minutes in all the Big East games combined. Just awful.

Here we go…

vs SJU - 0 minutes
@ BU - 22 seconds
@ PU - 3:36
vs DePaul - 4:25 all in OT
@ Xavier - 2:02 (5-0 lead to start the game)
vs GU - 0 minutes
@ Nova - 6:12

A total of 16:37 seconds for the BE season so far.

This was depressing to research.

 

[NYC Pirate]

Felton is not a PG. He’s doesn’t move quick enough, his dribble is too high and slow, he’s not athletic enough on corners.

He’s a backup BE 2G IMO.

Dual had 5 turnovers. Just saying that Felton creates a more stable offensive set. Maybe SJU is the wrong game to make this case. How about we try to get a lead instead of having to use trapping to get back in. Remember DePaul was up 19. Still can't believe their coach did not foul Wusu up 3 on the last possession of regulation. Personally, I want a new PG on the court next November.

 

[chickenbox]

felton plays pg like dual. 10 seconds dribbling at half court. today he is a 2g. i am all for giving him time at the 1 to learn but it aint pretty.

And so does DAW. Why? Isn't our coach a former pg great? If every primary ball handler does this, they're either all ignoring what their coach tells them to do or doing what he tells them to do. I assume it's the latter. Which I think this baffling.

 

[Piratz]

prince has improved 100 % since the beginning. last night like the rest of us he forced it closer and closer to the rim like he was 6-10. but in most games he gets good shots. what was maddening was a guy getting 8 good shots. getting them all off and making 1. now he is usually making his share. cept for last night.

and if i have to have a big on the floor it will be godswill.

Aligbe has really found some rhythm. Not nearly as jittery. Glad to see it. And Sha said recently, "He got the message" or something which bodes well. Aligbe was bad early, then went into the dog house, now is out. His rebounding has really picked up too. Could be a piece to move forward with alongside Coleman and Middleton. Right now he's 22nd in o-rating, 10th in OR%, 12th in DR% in BE games. Vastly improved.

Dual had 5 turnovers. Just saying that Felton creates a more stable offensive set. Maybe SJU is the wrong game to make this case. How about we try to get a lead instead of having to use trapping to get back in. Remember DePaul was up 19. Still can't believe their coach did not foul Wusu up 3 on the last possession of regulation. Personally, I want a new PG on the court next November.

Dual's not one either at this stage. I don't think Felton creates anything. He just stands there and dribbles side to side, that's the only difference. He's not nearly as sloppy as the other two, but he is not as skilled as either too. Dual has no clue what he's doing and DAW is what he is; a career of playing like a one-speed tank.

 

[radecicco]

And so does DAW. Why? Isn't our coach a former pg great? If every primary ball handler does this, they're either all ignoring what their coach tells them to do or doing what he tells them to do. I assume it's the latter. Which I think this baffling.

All true but the problem is we don’t have a PG.

 

[chickenbox]

All true but the problem is we don’t have a PG.

You don't have to be a pg to not do the stuff all our players playin pg do