Offense Against Zone

[MikeSHU66]

With the boys not playing again for another couple days (Thursday), I wanted to talk a little basketball X's and O's.

It's no secret our team is lacking in three point shooters this year. This was especially apparent when our offense went stagnant against GW after they went to the zone. We'd move the ball around the perimeter for about 15-20 seconds trying to get it to Desi in the high post, and then go from there. I think any coach who watched that game would be inclined to run a 2-3 zone against us for a majority of the game.

My thinking is that instead of having Desi being the guy flashing to the high post, we have khadeen and gordon handling the ball on the perimeter and have Whitehead flashing to the high post. He's our best mid range shooter so he can turn around and hit the foul line jumper, but he's also our best passer and can try to find Desi/Delgado/Nzei/Ish down low when the D crashes on him. Desi can attack the rim, but while watching the GW game I wasnt confident in his ability to hit that 10 footer or to make a good pass to one of the big boys (although he had one great pass to Mike if I recall)

What're your guys thoughts? PS sorry for such a long post

 

[Halldan1]

Mike, in the recent past a player like Pat Auda excelled in this spot. Not a great shooter, but clearly one capable of hitting the mid range jumper while having the height and BB IQ to make the necessary pass or drive.

I agree with you that Whitehead has the ability to excel in this position but I do have concerns. Ideally you want height inside the zone so the player can more easily shoot or pass. At 6-4 Whitehead doesn't have that height.

Also, you suggest playing three guards, something that I am not in favor of except in certain situations. Three guards means that Delgado and probably one of our PFs would have to be on the court, say Ish or Nzei (not Desi). That lineup would have virtually no perimeter presence with your best shooter playing inside the zone.

 

[Seton75]

I am for someone at the high post. I can see value in your suggestions. Flash a big for high low and ball reversal, flash triple threat player like isaiah but get to ball in the zone and make the defense move. Ring around the perimeter looks pretty and leaves us with only threes.

 

[pmulcahy96]

Excellent post Mike. I agree, I think this team will face a lot of tight 2-3 zone/3-2 zone, daring us to shoot the three ball. I agree with Whitehead flashing, especially if the offense has good spacing. It can create a pull-up J, a drive opportunity or a kickout. Desi is an excellent slasher. Sanogo/Nzei are very good options in the high post in the initial set, once the offense starts it would be nice to see a slip screen or a back screen to get whitehead into the foul line area. A concern I have is the transition defense and the interior defense, teams have been beating us down the floor and we also let teams get to the basket pretty easily. As the season goes on, I do think we will see improvement in those areas.

 

[HallBall10]

Near the end of the game(GW), IW went to the foul line and he wasn't tall enough to get the ball. Plus the defense collapsed around him. We don't have much 3pt shooting and you don't want to put one of our only 3 pt shooters at the foul line.

The ball needs to move. No reason IW should be holding the ball in his hands for more than 1 Mississippi. The ball needs to zip around the arc, down to Desi, delgado foul line, opposite to IW spotting up for 3 (decent shot), two more passes finds a wide open 3 for desi or a KC drive with a pass down to Nzei for a dunk. Keep the ball moving, have players rotating spots, look to attack.

 

[cernjSHU]

In the 2-3 zone, the open area of the floor is at the foul line. I do not see enough flashing to that area of the floor. While I think Whitehead would not be a bad option because he could drive to the basket, shoot or pass, I do like Desi there because he is a little bigger and can get his shot off better against the center's hand in his face.

I think the team offensively should mix it up with Whitehead and Desi. This keeps the defense guessing. However, the bigger problem is that players do not flash to the foul line as often and we are stuck passing the ball around the perimeter and either taking a bad three or driving to the basket.

 

[Piratz]

it's incredible to me that we do not station someone at the FT line against the zone. Quite baffling. We have plenty of guys who can do it - Desi, Ish, even Delgado - in order to run a high-low and quick pass out.

Orr used to run that well with Billmeier/Whitney. Grant's on the staff... He should remember, LOL.

 

[shupat08]

Pretty much every coach at every level knows to do this.

Not ours though. Maybe he's onto something magical and new that no one else knows about.

 

[Bud Boomer]

IMO anyone that plays zone against us is making a mistake. Even without shooters, the zone allows our guards to find gaps and get to the hoop/draw fouls, which they really struggle to do against half court man (the weave and high PNR generally just result in a lot of senseless perimeter dribbling, forced shots, and turnovers). Zone also limits our biggest weakness (turnovers) and enhances our only true offensive strength (rebounding). If I'm a coach, I'm dialing it up against SHU on defense, not sitting back in a zone.

 

[Section112]

The weave is completely useless against the zone. Agree with the high post strategy.

Also have to attack the gaps. Need more ball reversal and more passes from ball reversal to the short corner close to the basket. I saw us run the latter play against Georgia where Khadeen passed the ball to Angel and Angel hit Ish in the short corner to the left and he scored.

We have two very active PFs who should really help with the high-low and who can finish down low. And when the pass starts to consistently go down there it also opens up kick outs to a 3 pt shooter as well. You don't always have to shoot when you get the ball down low but getting the ball in that position can really open it up for a cutter to a kick out and a weakside rebound and put back.

Here is a good tool I used to use when coaching travel teams. Not rocket science.
https://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/offense/3-zone-strategies.html

I'd have our bigs work a lot more on the 10 footers too.

Our guards can drive which is always a great tool but they need to pass better during the drive and find those gaps in the zone for a short shot. Too often we force a drive against the zone and lose the ball.

 

[MikeSHU66]

Mike, in the recent past a player like Pat Auda excelled in this spot. Not a great shooter, but clearly one capable of hitting the mid range jumper while having the height and BB IQ to make the necessary pass or drive.

I agree with you that Whitehead has the ability to excel in this position but I do have concerns. Ideally you want height inside the zone so the player can more easily shoot or pass. At 6-4 Whitehead doesn't have that height.

Also, you suggest playing three guards, something that I am not in favor of except in certain situations. Three guards means that Delgado and probably one of our PFs would have to be on the court, say Ish or Nzei (not Desi). That lineup would have virtually no perimeter presence with your best shooter playing inside the zone.

I definitely agree with the points you make. Whitehead's height limits him in that setting, and 3 guards probably isnt the best thing. I just didn't feel like desi had the touch to keep defenses honest by turning around and hitting that 10 foot jumper. Mobley excelled at this last year.

Also, you stated in one of your posts on a different thread that Desi told you personally that he wants to be a 2 guard. He's shot the ball decently well from 3 this year. Would you ever consider having him on the perimeter when we play a zone with Carrington, and having Whitehead flashing to the high post? Obviously we'll never see that from Willard. Just a thought I had.

 

[anon_4htvdezyfe7k9]

Desi has been very good from 3 this year. > 40% and our best 3-pt shooter YTD in a small sample size. I feel like I've seen him wide open out there on numerous occasions recently too, but never got the ball.

 

[Halldan1]

I definitely agree with the points you make. Whitehead's height limits him in that setting, and 3 guards probably isnt the best thing. I just didn't feel like desi had the touch to keep defenses honest by turning around and hitting that 10 foot jumper. Mobley excelled at this last year.

Also, you stated in one of your posts on a different thread that Desi told you personally that he wants to be a 2 guard. He's shot the ball decently well from 3 this year. Would you ever consider having him on the perimeter when we play a zone with Carrington, and having Whitehead flashing to the high post? Obviously we'll never see that from Willard. Just a thought I had.

Whitehead actually does that at times now. And for my taste I think his posting smaller guards in a M/M is a very good idea IF he understands that he must make the correct choice and not the spectacular one.

The game when broken down by the great players is a simple one. Right now the talented sophomore doesn't understand that. Too much NYC flash and dash.

 

[Piratz]

Hoping to see more of Soffer. I was impressed by his form, size, and shot in the close against Rutgers. Could he become a zone buster?

 

[lwyrup]

With the boys not playing again for another couple days (Thursday), I wanted to talk a little basketball X's and O's.

It's no secret our team is lacking in three point shooters this year. This was especially apparent when our offense went stagnant against GW after they went to the zone. We'd move the ball around the perimeter for about 15-20 seconds trying to get it to Desi in the high post, and then go from there. I think any coach who watched that game would be inclined to run a 2-3 zone against us for a majority of the game.

My thinking is that instead of having Desi being the guy flashing to the high post, we have khadeen and gordon handling the ball on the perimeter and have Whitehead flashing to the high post. He's our best mid range shooter so he can turn around and hit the foul line jumper, but he's also our best passer and can try to find Desi/Delgado/Nzei/Ish down low when the D crashes on him. Desi can attack the rim, but while watching the GW game I wasnt confident in his ability to hit that 10 footer or to make a good pass to one of the big boys (although he had one great pass to Mike if I recall)

What're your guys thoughts? PS sorry for such a long post

These are the times I miss Brian Laing so much. The kid could not miss from mid-range. Can Desi become our zone buster? He's got a decent shot from downtown and he's virtually the same build as Laing. I don't see him taking many mid-range shots though.

 

[JTSHU]

There's always holes in the zone. It makes you fall asleep and dance around the perimeter. KW has to make sure they are constantly attacking it. Foul line is always open, baseline is always open for Delgado/Ish/Nzei to finish and of course driving the seams, breaking it down for a kick out to Soffer would be nice.

 

[Piratz]

IMO anyone that plays zone against us is making a mistake. Even without shooters, the zone allows our guards to find gaps and get to the hoop/draw fouls, which they really struggle to do against half court man (the weave and high PNR generally just result in a lot of senseless perimeter dribbling, forced shots, and turnovers). Zone also limits our biggest weakness (turnovers) and enhances our only true offensive strength (rebounding). If I'm a coach, I'm dialing it up against SHU on defense, not sitting back in a zone.

This is a great point. Playing zone against us is interesting because our guards have not demonstrated the ability to make consistently good decisions and our 3PT shooting is a weakness right now.

However, with the emergence of Sanogo and Nzei, our team rebounding is actually a strength that becomes even greater when you're playing against a zone. But that still requires good decision making and not just bombing up 3's which tend to lead to long rebounds that can offset this advantage.

 

[Halldan1]

This is a great point. Playing zone against us is interesting because our guards have not demonstrated the ability to make consistently good decisions and our 3PT shooting is a weakness right now.

However, with the emergence of Sanogo and Nzei, our team rebounding is actually a strength that becomes even greater when you're playing against a zone. But that still requires good decision making and not just bombing up 3's which tend to lead to long rebounds that can offset this advantage.

That's a good point. We are hurting zones on the glass.

But what I'm not seeing is quick ball movement leading to open shots against the zones we're seeing.

Watch Xavier's ball movement. Yes, they have better shooters than we do. But everyone becomes a better shooter with quality looks.

Forget how much YOU score and concentrate on how much YOUR team scores.

 

[Piratz]

And while the offensive rebounding is sensational, you don't want to be so reliant on it because it's coming on the backs of young players going through this grind for the first time and you don't want them spent by February.

Every easy bucket you can get is a big help.

 

[Burnsly]

Shooting has become so bad in the college game today that you must be able to rebound on the offensive end. It's something that has been missing from our offense for years.