OT: NY Giants

[batts]

Y On a separate note the interference call on DRC may have been one of the worse calls ever.

Terrible call. Contrast that call with the no-call at the end of the Atlanta - Seattle game when Julio Jones was mauled before the ball arrived. I'm sure that both Atlanta and NYG will be contacting the League about those bad calls.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...ones-richard-sherman-interference-call-101716

 

[Burnsly]

The stupidity of this team is comical. It's like when Fassell was the coach. Pretty soon OBJ will be running back punts I guess.

 

[Section112]

You left out one major flaw and that is that they don't smart FB like the late hit on Flacco that gave the Ravens the ball back after the Giants had stopped them. ODB's taking his helmet off after the winning touchdown . On a separate not the interference call on DRC may have been one of the worse calls ever.

That was a clinic on how you should defend the long pass that DRC gave and somehow he was called for PI? WTF?
Running game still not good - I actually like the Raines kid the most at RB now because he has a burst. Parker not bad either - Jennings just seems slow to me.
TE still is an adventure. Did you see that play when Donnel could have had an easy first down and he runs out of bounds? And Tye doesn't seem like he can lift his arms above his head.
O line is not good at moving anyone and the defensive penetration they allow on runs especially in the red zone is really bad.
Somehow I thought the banged up secondary held together yesterday but if they play a more talented team their weaknesses will be exploited. Again though the Defense gave up yards but did not break. That has been the strength of this team this year. If we can get our safeties and corners healthy who knows. Flawed team for sure but did yesterday give them some confidence?
The schedule does not look that difficult to me the way teams are currently playing. Will this team get better and make a season of it or not??? Even though the record of the NFC east is good I still don't think any of the teams are unbeatable at all.

 

[Piratz]

Running game still not good - I actually like the Raines kid the most at RB now because he has a burst. Parker not bad either - Jennings just seems slow to me.

TE still is an adventure. Did you see that play when Donnel could have had an easy first down and he runs out of bounds? And Tye doesn't seem like he can lift his arms above his head.

O line is not good at moving anyone and the defensive penetration they allow on runs especially in the red zone is really bad.

The run blocking is just absolutely comical. The only glimmer of hope is the delayed handoffs up the middle behind the interior, which is OK. The tackles are woeful. So are the formations. Why not try Beatty along the long in a blocking TE role?

Donnell is looking completely uncoachable. Just a terribly flawed fundamentally.

Lack of balance offensively continues to be a problem with the team going on 3-4 consecutive seasons now. The team is never rebuilt properly because the current GM does not recognize the need to build inside-out. That line needed to be upgraded this offseason and it was not. Entirely too one-dimensional. Now 26th in rushing and 29th in RZ%. Zero improvement this year.

Somehow I thought the banged up secondary held together yesterday but if they play a more talented team their weaknesses will be exploited. Again though the Defense gave up yards but did not break. That has been the strength of this team this year. If we can get our safeties and corners healthy who knows. Flawed team for sure but did yesterday give them some confidence?

I agree. The defense is improved. Still not great, but good. About average in the league. They've been pretty steady this year and played well yesterday.

The schedule does not look that difficult to me the way teams are currently playing. Will this team get better and make a season of it or not??? Even though the record of the NFC east is good I still don't think any of the teams are unbeatable at all.

I still feel this is a 7-9, 8-8 team at best.

You left out one major flaw and that is that they don't smart FB like the late hit on Flacco that gave the Ravens the ball back after the Giants had stopped them. ODB's taking his helmet off after the winning touchdown . On a separate not the interference call on DRC may have been one of the worse calls ever.

This is one of the most undisciplined, sloppy Giants teams I have seen in a long time. They already have 13 turnovers in just 6 games and are an NFL-worst -10 in margin. Then you factor in all the mind-numbing personal foul penalties and it's truly ridiculous.

They only committed 21 turnovers of all last year and finished +6 in the league, tied for 6th-best and 9th-best in fewest penalties. That's partially why that rag-tag 2015 roster was so competitive.

 

[TomD82]

The run blocking is just absolutely comical. The only glimmer of hope is the delayed handoffs up the middle behind the interior, which is OK. The tackles are woeful. So are the formations. Why not try Beatty along the long in a blocking TE role?

Donnell is looking completely uncoachable. Just a terribly flawed fundamentally.

Lack of balance offensively continues to be a problem with the team going on 3-4 consecutive seasons now. The team is never rebuilt properly because the current GM does not recognize the need to build inside-out. That line needed to be upgraded this offseason and it was not. Entirely too one-dimensional. Now 26th in rushing and 29th in RZ%. Zero improvement this year.



I agree. The defense is improved. Still not great, but good. About average in the league. They've been pretty steady this year and played well yesterday.



I still feel this is a 7-9, 8-8 team at best.



This is one of the most undisciplined, sloppy Giants teams I have seen in a long time. They already have 13 turnovers in just 6 games and are an NFL-worst -10 in margin. Then you factor in all the mind-numbing personal foul penalties and it's truly ridiculous.

They only committed 21 turnovers of all last year and finished +6 in the league, tied for 6th-best and 9th-best in fewest penalties. That's partially why that rag-tag 2015 roster was so competitive.

The Herzlich penalty (off sides on a punt) that gave them a first down was really bad. This is not exactly the Vikings coaching staff here, but it really has become ridiculous, then throw in the phantom calls by the refs and it was really lucky to get the W. The owner has his finger prints all over this blue print and the operations. On the bright side Bobby Hart did not play badly yesterday. But, as I have said over and over he is a classic example of how the Giants believe they do not have to upgrade certain areas they can coach up any player. And Donnell not getting that first down? Geez.

 

[Piratz]

The Herzlich penalty (off sides on a punt) that gave them a first down was really bad. This is not exactly the Vikings coaching staff here, but it really has become ridiculous, then throw in the phantom calls by the refs and it was really lucky to get the W. The owner has his finger prints all over this blue print and the operations. On the bright side Bobby Hart did not play badly yesterday. But, as I have said over and over he is a classic example of how the Giants believe they do not have to upgrade certain areas they can coach up any player. And Donnell not getting that first down? Geez.

Hart looks like a common backup to me. And seems a bit smallish for tackle, no? He's still very young, so maybe he can develop into a more capable reserve type. He did better yesterday, I agree, but he isn't even as good as Newhouse.

The proof is in the pudding with this organization. From what I see at the moment they are on their way to their 5th consecutive playoff-less season and 4th consecutive season with a losing record. During that time Mara has fired an offensive coordinator (2013), a defensive coordinator (2014), a head coach (2015)... I mean, what's left?

 

[mjs428]

We are 3-3 with having played road games at Dallas, at Green Bay, & at Minnesota. We should be happy. If they're a playoff team, they should win these upcoming games against winnable opponents.

 

[hallgrad80]

Hart looks like a common backup to me. And seems a bit smallish for tackle, no? He's still very young, so maybe he can develop into a more capable reserve type. He did better yesterday, I agree, but he isn't even as good as Newhouse.

The proof is in the pudding with this organization. From what I see at the moment they are on their way to their 5th consecutive playoff-less season and 4th consecutive season with a losing record. During that time Mara has fired an offensive coordinator (2013), a defensive coordinator (2014), a head coach (2015)... I mean, what's left?

Hopefully Mara will add the General Manager and Mark Ross to his list of firings in 2016 .

 

[Flnj86]

The Cowboys are back!

 

[TomD82]

We are 3-3 with having played road games at Dallas, at Green Bay, & at Minnesota. We should be happy. If they're a playoff team, they should win these upcoming games against winnable opponents.

That is true and really should have beaten Washington, too. I just can't help but think that it is all smoke and mirrors though. Clearly, this team is not as good as a Green Bay or Minnesota, but went toe to toe with Carolina, New England last year and Atlanta and Buffalo from last year who this year are turning out to be pretty good.

I just don't understand the front office philosophy towards the OL and LB positions, which I think is really the difference between a really good team and these last 2 seasons teams.

 

[Piratz]

We are 3-3 with having played road games at Dallas, at Green Bay, & at Minnesota. We should be happy. If they're a playoff team, they should win these upcoming games against winnable opponents.

I don't know what they are. I thought the Giants absolutely stole the game in Dallas and again yesterday, but gave away the game against Washington, lol.

I think they're fortunately to be 3-3 with a -10 turnover margin and -15 point differential, which are really bad indicators for sustaining. Need to clean up the entire operation.

 

[TomD82]

Hopefully Mara will add the General Manager and Mark Ross to his list of firings in 2016 .

John Mara should add himself to the list. Great handling of the Josh Brown case!

 

[Piratz]

I cannot believe how badly the organization has mishandled this situation with Josh Brown. I guess I should not be surprised though considering how badly they've mishandled many things the past 4-5 years.

 

[anon_4htvdezyfe7k9]

Not sure I understand this whole Josh Brown thing, or how the NFL and NYG is handling it. So he flew to London with the team while the situation continues to be investigated, yet Robbie Gould will be their PK for the (idiotic) London game? Just effing cut the guy already. I used to be a huge NFL fan and only my passion for the Giants rivaled my passion for SHU hoops, but I just don't care about it anymore. I don't watch any games the Giants aren't playing in, including the Super Bowl, and have recently stopped tuning in altogether.

 

[anon_4htvdezyfe7k9]

My mistake, just read that Brown didn't travel with the team. Still should be cut though.

 

[garyshu71]

The Giants used to be a class act. They had all of my respect.This Brown episode and the Mara comments about it take them to rock bottom.

 

[hallgrad80]

What has come out that has amazed me the most about the Josh Brown matter is what happened at the Pro Bowl. Apparently Brown and his now ex wife got into it to the point where NFL Security and the NY Giants had to move her to another separate room but in the same hotel. If that didn't send up really big red flags to the Giants then this organization is more broken then I think it is.

 

[hallgrad80]

The Giants used to be a class act. They had all of my respect.This Brown episode and the Mara comments about it take them to rock bottom.

Agree . The Giants seem to become more dysfunctional as time goes on and certainly Mara's reputation as one of the better more astute owners in the NFL is taking big hits.

 

[TomD82]

You guys are spot on about the NFL and the Giants. My father has been a season ticket holder since 1950. We used to go to all the games and I would agonize over the games. I still watch and root for the team but my interst has also wained a lot. The NFL and all of its team don't care if people die if they can make money on it. Until they get caught that is.

On the Giants football side once George Young and Ernie Accorsi were completely out of the picture and Mara began his meddling you see the results.

 

[Piratz]

I think you're right, TomD. Accorsi (who served under Young from 1994-97) was there to put in the framework that resulted in the Giants' most recent run of success, which included the Super Bowl appearance in the 2000 season and Super Bowl wins in 2007 and 2011 seasons.

But since then it's needed new direction and leadership as naturally happens with time and they have been absolutely asleep at the switch. You get these ridiculous mishandled situations and meddling, as well as the worst stretch of football in more than 35 years. I do not see it changing this year, that's for sure.

The Brown situation is surreal:

1). They re-sign the guy in April of this year knowing there was a pending DV investigation from 2015 when he was arrested, and another incident at the Pro Bowl just months before in February.
2). They and the NFL tried to hush the situation (as usual) until it finally blew up this past summer.
3). They stand by the player when it blows up despite their rookie HC McAdoo saying there will be "zero tolerance" in January. So he says this and advocates re-signing?
4). DV is part of the NFL CBA now, I believe, then he mysteriously is suspended only one game despite never being charged, but now it could be more games because more information came out? What? Isn't once enough?
5). His incident at this year's Pro Bowl.

Nuts. Just absolutely nuts.

Good read on the NFL's laughable involvement: http://mynorthwest.com/430607/john-urquhart-fires-back-at-nfl/

 

[anon_4htvdezyfe7k9]

I don't know which is the dumber move, guaranteeing this clown $1.75MM, or him leaving the other potential ~$3MM on the table, assuming the Giants get their sh$% together and drop him.


Josh Brown signed a 2 year, $4,000,000 contract with the New York Giants, including a $500,000 signing bonus, $1,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $2,000,000. In 2016, Brown will earn a base salary of $1,152,941, a signing bonus of $500,000, a roster bonus of $250,000 and a workout bonus of $25,000.

 

[hallgrad80]

Listening to Michael Kay today apparently John Mara was on the FAN yesterday and said they the Giants knew of the abuse but not the extent of it just as they knew of the incident at the 2015 Pro Bowl and yet they signed Josh Brown. My question for Mara would be if you have a zero tolerance for DV how do you sign Brown.

 

[Piratz]

Listening to Michael Kay today apparently John Mara was on the FAN yesterday and said they the Giants knew of the abuse but not the extent of it just as they knew of the incident at the 2015 Pro Bowl and yet they signed Josh Brown. My question for Mara would be if you have a zero tolerance for DV how do you sign Brown.

I heard that interview yesterday. I was shocked at Mara. You can find it here: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/audio/wfan-audio/

 

[hallgrad80]

I heard that interview yesterday. I was shocked at Mara. You can find it here: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/audio/wfan-audio/

Piratz
Thanks for taking the time to post the interview.

 

[Piratz]

The Giants have signed Robbie Gould to kick. Good veteran.

This team has been prone to sloppiness and lack of discipline this season. Wondering how this distraction with Josh Brown and trip to London plays with them, especially against an opponent known for physical play and chippiness. Will be another indicator on the rookie HC.

 

[its haLL baLL]

Mara's comments were perplexing, especially considering the "zero tolerance" policy the team had going into the season. I've been a fan of the Giants my entire life, but this organization is vastly different than the one I grew up following. The owners don't seem to be on the same page, my faith in Mara is waning, the front office is a joke, and the on-field performance and behavior of the players is very "unGiantlike". The coddling of Beckham, the handling of Coughlin, and the personnel failures are direct failures of Mara, in my opinion.

 

[anon_4htvdezyfe7k9]

I think it was time to move on from Coughlin. I had no problem with that, unless you're referring to how it was handled specifically.

The McAdoo hire was a head-scratcher, but I assumed it was just to placate Eli and maintain some continuity there, as they had some success together. Not the best strategy when there's a good chance they won't be SB contenders before Eli's inevitable declines begins.

The personnel moves have been a disaster. One of the only talents they landed recently via draft suddenly has some bizarre emotional issues that have hurt the Giants as much as his skills have helped, with the exception of last week's game. Does anyone know if Beckham's issues existed at LSU?

The Josh Brown situation speaks for itself.

Overall it seems like the Giants organization and players have just basically followed the rest of the league trends over the last handful of years.

 

[its haLL baLL]

I think it was time to move on from Coughlin. I had no problem with that, unless you're referring to how it was handled specifically.

The McAdoo hire was a head-scratcher, but I assumed it was just to placate Eli and maintain some continuity there, as they had some success together. Not the best strategy when there's a good chance they won't be SB contenders before Eli's inevitable declines begins.

The personnel moves have been a disaster. One of the only talents they landed recently via draft suddenly has some bizarre emotional issues that have hurt the Giants as much as his skills have helped, with the exception of last week's game. Does anyone know if Beckham's issues existed at LSU?

The Josh Brown situation speaks for itself.

Overall it seems like the Giants organization and players have just basically followed the rest of the league trends over the last handful of years.

I thought it was Coughlin's time, but I thought it was bizarre to keep everything else in place, namely Reese, and let Tom go. Made it seem like the organization thought that Tom and Tom alone was the reason for the team's shortcomings, while any unbiased observer would know that there was not enough talent on this team to compete.

That, plus the way they handled Tom's dismissal (which it was), left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Piratz]

This has nothing to do with Coughlin anymore, other than the handling of that situation was about as clumsy as everything else.

The team is poorly constructed and the rookie HC is doing on-the-job-training. And until the GM is replaced it will not change.

 

[sportsfantatic44]

I think most agree that the Giants aren't a very good team but there schedule is quite favorable the next 4 weeks after the bye. Home Philly, home Cincy, home Chicago, at Cleveland. Winning 3 out of 4 very reasonable.

 

[its haLL baLL]

I think most agree that the Giants aren't a very good team but there schedule is quite favorable the next 4 weeks after the bye. Home Philly, home Cincy, home Chicago, at Cleveland. Winning 3 out of 4 very reasonable.

I think the Giants are an average team, at best, but in the NFC average puts you in the upper half of the conference. I think at worst the team finishes 7-9 and wouldn't be surprised if they made the playoffs. If they make the playoffs, anything can happen.

With that said, and maybe I'm repeating myself with some previous posts, the NFL is terrible and almost unwatchable. Watching a game filled with terrible play and an ungodly amount of commercials is unbearable. I used to watch nearly every game televised - now I watch the Giants and the occasional decent matchup. Besides that, these games aren't worth my time.

 

[hallgrad80]

This has nothing to do with Coughlin anymore, other than the handling of that situation was about as clumsy as everything else.

The team is poorly constructed and the rookie HC is doing on-the-job-training. And until the GM is replaced it will not change.

Surprisingly , the defense is better then the offense . Collins is a player, Jenkins was an excellent signing and DRC is a solid , veteran pro. LB's are better then expected and the DL is solid.

Now for the offense. OL is mediocre at best , can't open holes for a running game and the QB, Eli , doesn't trust his line and he has not been sharp. The running game is non-existent , no real threat in any of the RB's and the team doesn't have an NFL tight end on the roster. The play-calling at times is bizarre and McAdoo has not distinguished himself as a head coach.

Reese and Ross must go and Mara should step down as head of the football operations and hire a president and give him full authority over running the on field football program and to whom the GM would report.

 

[QueRico]

This has nothing to do with Coughlin anymore, other than the handling of that situation was about as clumsy as everything else.

I saw the Coughlin exit as a case of TC's refusal to take the "Graceful Out". This would fit with the opinion that he was a cranky old man whom the game has passed by. They were prepared to let him move into the front office. There is an expiration date on NFL coaches and he had a successful - if roller coaster - tenure that had run its course.

I can't be the only one who had Jason Sehorn flashbacks when Beckham was back to return a punt. Whenever the Giants have had success on the field it was contingent on a stable OL, strong play from LB's and limiting turnovers & penalties... all big issues this year. At least the DL is starting to show some signs of life after a rough start to the season.

Oddly, the Giants are currently paying 3 PKs - Week 1's kicker Randy Bullock was signed to a guaranteed $675K contract due to his Vested Veteran CBA status.

 

[Piratz]

I saw the Coughlin exit as a case of TC's refusal to take the "Graceful Out". This would fit with the opinion that he was a cranky old man whom the game has passed by. They were prepared to let him move into the front office. There is an expiration date on NFL coaches and he had a successful - if roller coaster - tenure that had run its course.

Regardless of what anyone's personal thoughts are on Tom Coughlin, the bottom line is about the talent level on this team. It had deteriorated significantly and quickly because the core had gotten old. Years of documented putrid drafting and injury-riddled FA classes resulted in the worst stretch of football in 35 years. Now you have a rookie, novice HC in the same boat.

*Between 2005-12, this franchise went 85-54 (.604) over an 8-season run without a losing record, made the playoffs 5 times and won 2 Super Bowls.
*Since 2013, this franchise is 23-32 (.418) and riding 3 consecutive losing seasons.

Turned on a dime. What happened? Coaching?

 

[Piratz]

Surprisingly , the defense is better then the offense . Collins is a player, Jenkins was an excellent signing and DRC is a solid , veteran pro. LB's are better then expected and the DL is solid.

Now for the offense. OL is mediocre at best , can't open holes for a running game and the QB, Eli , doesn't trust his line and he has not been sharp. The running game is non-existent , no real threat in any of the RB's and the team doesn't have an NFL tight end on the roster. The play-calling at times is bizarre and McAdoo has not distinguished himself as a head coach..

They made enough upgrades and young players like Collins, Hankins, and Kennard have played well and it turned the defensive unit from literally one of the worst in the history of the league to average this year. It's made a huge difference. If they had this defense last year, they would've been 10-6.

The offense was a one-trick pony last year and the Giants loyalists on this board all keenly pointed out why, which were all interconnected:

*Lack of balance
*Lack of running game
*Inconsistent-to bad offensive line play and zero depth
*Lack of exterior blocking and two-way TE play

So what did the Giants do this offseason? Addressed none of these 4 points. None. Cruz and Shepard are upgrades over the likes of Randle, etc., yes, but as we are seeing wideouts mean nothing if you are weak fundamentally. And the Giants are very weak fundamentally. Even Bobby Hart is worse than the 2015 version of Marshall Newhouse.

Offense has regressed significantly.

 

[anon_x0d8d0dquuo4t]

I was a big Ernie Accorsi fan. Great GM. Little known fact about Accorsi and Frank Cashen, two successful GMs in their respective sports. Both were sportswriters for the Baltimore Sun before making the jump.

 

[catholicman]

Regardless of what anyone's personal thoughts are on Tom Coughlin, the bottom line is about the talent level on this team. It had deteriorated significantly and quickly because the core had gotten old. Years of documented putrid drafting and injury-riddled FA classes resulted in the worst stretch of football in 35 years. Now you have a rookie, novice HC in the same boat.

*Between 2005-12, this franchise went 85-54 (.604) over an 8-season run without a losing record, made the playoffs 5 times and won 2 Super Bowls.
*Since 2013, this franchise is 23-32 (.418) and riding 3 consecutive losing seasons.

Turned on a dime. What happened? Coaching?

What happened? Jerry Reese happened. He was hired in 2007 and his ineptitude did not show up right away because he had a good foundation of players built by others, which he began to gradually destroy.

 

[catholicman]

Does anyone here think Landon Collins should get a chance to run a few plays on the offensive side of the ball? He looked great running that interception back for a touchdown, played running back in high school, and may be more talented than any rb on the team (that's not saying much).

 

[ponyfoot19]

Not necessarily in defense of Manning, but it seems to me that he, more often than not, is under pressure considerably quicker than, the opposing qb. In the last two games the Giants seemed to ratchet up the pressure in the second half, and have played good but not great defense.

 

[Section112]

They made enough upgrades and young players like Collins, Hankins, and Kennard have played well and it turned the defensive unit from literally one of the worst in the history of the league to average this year. It's made a huge difference. If they had this defense last year, they would've been 10-6.

The offense was a one-trick pony last year and the Giants loyalists on this board all keenly pointed out why, which were all interconnected:

*Lack of balance
*Lack of running game
*Inconsistent-to bad offensive line play and zero depth
*Lack of exterior blocking and two-way TE play

So what did the Giants do this offseason? Addressed none of these 4 points. None. Cruz and Shepard are upgrades over the likes of Randle, etc., yes, but as we are seeing wideouts mean nothing if you are weak fundamentally. And the Giants are very weak fundamentally. Even Bobby Hart is worse than the 2015 version of Marshall Newhouse.

Offense has regressed significantly.

Good post! We are just fans and amateur GMs but I'm sure other teams see the same weaknesses in spades and Jerry Reese and Co did nothing to improve the offense other than one WR and some backup RBs. The O line and TE position are critical for this style offense to work. Have to build from the inside out. Why are the Dallas and Philly rookie QBs playing so well? Because they have good O lines.

The wide receivers I am sure are frustrated at the lack of balls they are getting because they get so much attention. We become easy to defend because teams rarely blitz more than one guy and keep everyone else back to cover our talented WRs. When they do blitz the line becomes swiss cheese. Other teams are not concerned much about our TEs. Throwing to RBs out of the backfield has improved a little. Seven games into the season and you can see Eli is still not confident in the O line and TE position. All symptoms of the ongoing Jerry Reese condition.