OT: Some thoughts on Jets, Zack Wilson & E. Moore

[SnakeTom]

SOME THOUGHTS ON JETS, Zac Wilson & Elija Moore

The Jury is out on Wilson. Today was a good day for his critics. Today he was exceptionally bad, but it's just one game, yet he has not proven himself to be a quality NFL starter. Possibly he never will. The Jets over time have been very bad in selecting QB's. Darnold was a bust & Wilson may also be one. Wilson's arm strength & long range accuracy is among the best, but his decision making and short range passing are among the worst. His short range passes are often too short (reminds me of Steve Sax or Knoblock playing 2nd base for Yankees) while his mid range passes are usually too high (over the head of receivers).

Eliaja Moore was very good last year. Was a 2nd round pick but most evaluated him as late first round. My guess is that this year he is just not getting open which is why he is getting very few targets. Hell Zac would have thrown to anyone open yesterday. He has talent though he obviously is a head case..

As to Jets and Pats. The Jets are more talented if the 3 injured players were active, but injuries are part of the game & 2 of the 3 are out for the season now. So the game difference was Bellechek who's schemes forced Wilson into bad throws. To remain successful the Jets better adapt to life without Hall & Tucker and do it soon.

As to Jones & Wilson . Yes at this time Jones is the better QB.

PS: The Jets are 5-3 this year so far. I was not at any of the wins but was in the stands for all 3 losses. Coach Sala sent me a text to stay the hell out of Met Life for all future Jet games - lol

Tom K

 

[Section112]

One of the big differences with the really good teams is their depth. Jets and Giants don't have much depth so when a starter goes down teams like that really feel it. Wilson is a young QB and will have games like that. Gotta hope they develop him and give him the coaching he needs and at the same time can surround him with talent to make his life easier.

Yesterday the Giants lost and you could see the 2nd string receivers and TEs were not separating and gave Jones very few options. Depth matters.

 

[Section112]

Obviously they miss those 3 injured players especially a rising talent like Breece Hall. I am always amazed at how bad a QB can look without talent surrounding him.

 

[hallgrad80]

Wilson was bad yesterday and it’s difficult to find anything positive in the way he played and yet what struck me as the game progressed was why the Jets game plan went away from the run. During their winning streak they ran the ball and Wilson , like Jones , became a manager rather then the focal point of the offense and when he did it didn’t work.

 

[SnakeTom]

Wilson was bad yesterday and it’s difficult to find anything positive in the way he played and yet what struck me as the game progressed was why the Jets game plan went away from the run. During their winning streak they ran the ball and Wilson , like Jones , became a manager rather then the focal point of the offense and when he did it didn’t work.

2 Reasons why the jets moved off its game plan to run, run, run.

First the obvious one that Breece Hall is the best playmaker on the team & the one who makes the running game effective just as Barclay does for the Giants. Secondly Vera-Tucker is the second best player on the team and by far their best offensive lineman. It is he who opens the holes for the running backs & provides protection for the QB. It is tough to overcome the loss of your two best players. I agree however that the Jets got away from the run game much too early especially why considering that they were ahead 10-6 at the start of the 2nd half.

TK

 

[bigraym]

Do you credit Belichick for luring the Jets to pass or blame Jet's Saleh and staff for continuing to pass?

 

[hallgrad80]

2 Reasons why the jets moved off its game plan to run, run, run.

First the obvious one that Breece Hall is the best playmaker on the team & the one who makes the running game effective just as Barclay does for the Giants. Secondly Vera-Tucker is the second best player on the team and by far their best offensive lineman. It is he who opens the holes for the running backs & provides protection for the QB. It is tough to overcome the loss of your two best players. I agree however that the Jets got away from the run game much too early especially when considering that they were ahead 10-6 at the start of the 2nd half.

TK

Saleh was on his regular Monday segment with the Michael Kay Show and said that they didn’t run the ball as much as they should have in the second half.

 

[SnakeTom]

Do you credit Belichick for luring the Jets to pass or blame Jet's Saleh and staff for continuing to pass?

I credit Bellichick with being the best coach in Football by far. Quite possibly the best ever. As to Sala and LeFleur, they are in their 2nd year and it is much too early to fully evaluate them. To your question a little of both, but much more credit goes to Bellichick.

Tom K

 

[HallLine69]

I've given up on Wilson. Makes too many dumb mistakes.

 

[SnakeTom]

I've given up on Wilson. Makes too many dumb mistakes.

I have not yet given up on Wilson, but listening to the SNY analysts and beat writers the consensus is that the Jets have been winning in spite of Zack Wilson and not because of him.

Tom K

 

[Potbelly407]

I've given up on Wilson. Makes too many dumb mistakes.

This is the problem with fans today, they don’t have patience with young guys. How many games has Wilson played? Less than two years and you want to kick him to the curb. Peyton Manning three 28 (!) interceptions his rookie year. Thankfully for Colts fans you weren’t Gm, lol

 

[lloyde dobler]

This is the problem with fans today, they don’t have patience with young guys. How many games has Wilson played? Less than two years and you want to kick him to the curb. Peyton Manning three 28 (!) interceptions his rookie year. Thankfully for Colts fans you weren’t Gm, lol

That’s true, but with the way rookie contracts work, there’s a lot more scrutiny involved in analyzing long-term value for QBs

 

[TheHall87]

I've given up on Wilson. Makes too many dumb mistakes.

I have not yet given up on Wilson, but listening to the SNY analysts and beat writers the consensus is that the Jets have been winning in spite of Zack Wilson and not because of him.

Tom K

It's way too early to give up on Wilson. He's all of 18 games into his career. That said, if the Jets feel there is a chance to improve the position going forward, they should take it.

I doubt Mike White is the answer. If the Jets thought he was he probably would be the No. 2 QB right now.

 

[SnakeTom]

Of course, an upset of the Bills next Sunday and all will be fine in the world again.

TK

 

[Fishjam]

Wilson has a lot of bad habits as a QB:

1- Footwork - the vast majority of his throws are thrown off his back foot causing the ball to sail or he rushes his arm and delivers from a 3/4 arm slot which hurts his accuracy

2- He's quick to leave the pocket. His O-Line isn't great but Zack is quick to go into scramble mode

3- His best attribute is his running ability yet he never runs. He always scrambles to his right and only to look for opportunities to throw. Take off and run. This is on the OC also. Should have more designed QB runs/options.

4- He's so cocky and anxious to make the big play he refuses to throw the ball away when nothings there. All 3 INTs were balls that should have been thrown away and he had another 4-5 near misses

5- He's lost a lot of weapons around him. Jets are down 4 starting Offensive Tackles, Breece Hall and Corey Davis. Don't know what is going on with Moore but they need to figure it out. Mims and Wilson made some plays, the TEs got involved but with no running game and a banged up O-Line things are a lot tougher

 

[Halldan1]

In no way at this point is Wilson a bust. But your post above is on target and one of the two main reasons they lost to the Pats. The other being the pick six nullified by a roughing the passer flag that would have given the Jets a 17-3 lead. Instead the Pats drive continued ending in a field goal and a Jet 10-6 lead.

Teams that have been bad for so long do these things and it cost them games. Until Wilson matures and he and the young Jets play more meaningful games we will just have to continue to suffer with the hope that we are heading in the right direction.

 

[Section112]

Finding the right situation and coach for a young QB is so important in the NFL. Lots of these guys have similar talent but some never stick and others do. Not an easy combination to crack but the coaching, talent around them and organization are huge in allowing these guys to develop. Look at the success Geno Smith is now having. Crazy after so many different teams and he looks to be in total control back there now.

 

[Halldan1]

There were two Jet QBs that I loved. Darnold and Smith.

Wanted both of them badly. I was so wrong on Darnold and looks like so right on Smith.

Sometimes you just have to be patient with young QBs. Maybe, although it doesn't seem like it Darnold will get better as Smith has done.

 

[Halldan1]

Give JP credit. He was covering the Jets and in the preseason of Darnold's first year he told me he was going to be an absolute bust. I told him he was nuts. Who's nuts now? LOL

 

[Burnsly]

I tend to think that the success of a QB is tied to the developmental support he receives from the organization that drafts him. Darnold couldn't have wound up in a worse situation. Same with Jones, until this year.

Too early to tell with Wilson but Jets would most likely go farther this year with a more seasoned QB. They are in a tough spot since their roster is built to win now. Giants on the other hand are playing with house money.

 

[HallLine69]

I tend to think that the success of a QB is tied to the developmental support he receives from the organization that drafts him. Darnold couldn't have wound up in a worse situation. Same with Jones, until this year.

Too early to tell with Wilson but Jets would most likely go farther this year with a more seasoned QB. They are in a tough spot since their roster is built to win now. Giants on the other hand are playing with house money.

Contrary to most of the posts here, I have completely lost faith in Wilson. He keeps repeating the same dumb things (described very well in Fishjam's post). Salah and Douglas are stuck with having to use him, I can see that. But as a fan I go with what I see and there has been very little positive and far too many really bad decisions. I would LOVE to be proven wrong, but I just do not see an NFL quarterback.

 

[LeftCoastPirates]

A look at where people out there view Zach Wilson at this moment in time.

 

[HallLine69]

A look at where people out there view Zach Wilson at this moment in time.

View embedded media

That's a really harsh ranking...32 of 32. I'd put him around 26.

 

[HALL85]

Justin Fields at 16?

 

[dehere23]

I tend to think that the success of a QB is tied to the developmental support he receives from the organization that drafts him. Darnold couldn't have wound up in a worse situation. Same with Jones, until this year.

Too early to tell with Wilson but Jets would most likely go farther this year with a more seasoned QB. They are in a tough spot since their roster is built to win now. Giants on the other hand are playing with house money.

Agreed. For most guys, the situation matters. For the truly great ones, likely not. For a whole tier of others, it’s about coaching and the framework around them.

 

[LeftCoastPirates]

Here are more examples of current rankings, ones that don’t have Justin Fields at 16.

QB Power Rankings 2022: Patrick Mahomes Remains No. 1, Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers Slide
DJ: 13
Wilson: 30

The Ringer's 2022 QB Rankings
DJ: 21
Wilson: 33

https://fansided.com/2022/11/02/nfl-quarterback-rankings-week-9-aaron-rodgers/
DJ: 24
Wilson: 28

Here is a ranking that is a little extreme because it’s relying predominantly on advanced stats.

NFL Quarterback Rankings, Week 9: Tua Tagovailoa, elite QB
DJ: 15
Wilson: 35

Here is a site that metrically ranks QB based on their points better or worse vs the average starter in the league.

QB Rankings | nfelo.app
DJ: 17
Wilson: 39

 

[The Crows Nest]

Here are more examples of current rankings, ones that don’t have Justin Fields at 16.

QB Power Rankings 2022: Patrick Mahomes Remains No. 1, Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers Slide
DJ: 13
Wilson: 30

The Ringer's 2022 QB Rankings
DJ: 21
Wilson: 33

https://fansided.com/2022/11/02/nfl-quarterback-rankings-week-9-aaron-rodgers/
DJ: 24
Wilson: 28

Here is a ranking that is a little extreme because it’s relying predominantly on advanced stats.

NFL Quarterback Rankings, Week 9: Tua Tagovailoa, elite QB
DJ: 15
Wilson: 35

Here is a site that metrically ranks QB based on their points better or worse vs the average starter in the league.

QB Rankings | nfelo.app
DJ: 17
Wilson: 39

And now?

lol

winning is all that matters. His stats aren’t very good today…but…no INTs.
Can’t say the same about his counterpart.
Jets played a hell of a game.
Reminds me of Rex’s teams. Defense will keep them in it, don’t want offense make mistakes.

 

[SHUSA]

Zack Wilson fat W against the #1 team.

 

[TomD82]

And now?

lol

winning is all that matters. His stats aren’t very good today…but…no INTs.
Can’t say the same about his counterpart.
Jets played a hell of a game.
Reminds me of Rex’s teams. Defense will keep them in it, don’t want offense make mistakes.

Outstanding defense by the Jets. And your point is spot on. They never should have been throwing the ball 50 times a game no matter who the QB was or is.

 

[Potbelly407]

Justin Fields at 16?

I don’t get the infatuation people have with Fields at all

 

[LeftCoastPirates]

And now?

lol

winning is all that matters. His stats aren’t very good today…but…no INTs.
Can’t say the same about his counterpart.
Jets played a hell of a game.
Reminds me of Rex’s teams. Defense will keep them in it, don’t want offense make mistakes.

Great game by the Jets D. They also ran for 174 yards.

Wilson played arguably one of his better games as a Jet.

but let’s not forget that with the game tied 17-17, the Jets decided to take the ball out of Zach’s hands for 8 straight plays. He made a key throw on 3rd down and then the Jets went back to being ultra conservative leading to a FG, when normally that will not stand up against the NFL’s top offense.

but like I said. Great game by the Jets D, and after a key holding penalty, they stepped up with the strip sack to seal the win.

 

[lr591902]

I don’t get the infatuation people have with Fields at all

If you watched today you understand it

 

[Halldan1]

....but let’s not forget that with the game tied 17-17, the Jets decided to take the ball out of Zach’s hands for 8 straight plays. He made a key throw on 3rd down and then the Jets went back to being ultra conservative leading to a FG, when normally that will not stand up against the NFL’s top offense.

Why would you not run the ball when the offensive line was dominating the Bill's D? You eat up the clock, you take the ball out of the hands of Allen and you drive down the field with the winning FG.

If you have one of the best defenses in the league that's how you win games. Wilson played an excellent game yesterday after playing horribly the previous week.

If he deserves blame for last week, and he does, then he deserves full credit for the way he played yesterday.

18-for-25 (72%), 154 yards, 1 TD no INTs against one of the top Ds in the league.

 

[hallgrad80]

The Jets have a playoff caliber defense that not only can keep them in games but win games for them and could lead them deep in the playoffs. They also have some key weapons on offense with a strong running game , some pieces on an improving OL and talent at wide receiver. Another solid draft , signing a couple of high caliber free agents to bolster where they are week and they will be one of the better teams in the AFC . Having said that Wilson is still inconsistent at QB and that could be the their Achilles heel but he still has half a season to prove he is a true playoff caliber talent.

 

[Fishjam]

All of the poor attributes I cited Zack for after the New England game, he improved on against Buffalo. Some of it was coaching but I give Zack a lot of credit for coming back and playing a good game vs the #1 team in the AFC.

1- He stayed in the pocket! Delivered the ball in rhythm without scrambling.

2- When pressured he threw the ball away or ran for positive yards

3- Footwork was much better. He delivered several side-arm passes but he stepped into them instead of releasing off back foot.

4- Knew the situations and played accordingly. Got the ball to his playmaker Wilson early and often. With the defense playing well used the running game to control the clock in the 2nd half. Made a key 3rd down pass to Mims on the deciding drive..

5- All-around a B performance for a QB but an A+ for his development showing he has the ability to put a terrible performance behind him and play a good team-oriented game against a strong opponent.

 

[ponyfoot19]

Late in the fourth quarter the running game was making positive yardage and moving the ball downfield. The Jets were taking time off the clock, and eventually forcing the Bills to use their timeouts. I believe it was Woody Hayes who said " when you throw the ball three things can happen, and two of them are bad". On the play preceding the winning FG, Wilson rolled towards the center of the field under heavy pressure. From my tv perspective, it appeared for an instant that he was going to try and pass, but rather he tucked the ball away, taking the sack between the hashmarks. Perhaps. a sign of situational awareness and QB growth.

 

[radecicco]

Great game by the Jets D. They also ran for 174 yards.

Wilson played arguably one of his better games as a Jet.

but let’s not forget that with the game tied 17-17, the Jets decided to take the ball out of Zach’s hands for 8 straight plays. He made a key throw on 3rd down and then the Jets went back to being ultra conservative leading to a FG, when normally that will not stand up against the NFL’s top offense.

but like I said. Great game by the Jets D, and after a key holding penalty, they stepped up with the strip sack to seal the win.

They would have thrown the ball if they had to, but they didn’t have to. The Jets o- line dominated the Bills up on that last drive.

 

[Potbelly407]

If you watched today you understand it

Great, but like Jones, let’s see it sustained over a full season (and the playoffs) before we discuss him him being one of the better QBs in the league

 

[Potbelly407]

An

If you watched today you understand it

And, btw, he still got the “L”. This isn’t Madden, your record is what you are and the Bears are 3-6