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Re-assessing the roster

donnie_baseball

All World
Mar 31, 2006
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A few weeks ago, I would have agreed with most who said jettison most of the roster, with the exception of Coleman. Since that time, with some guys obviously developing, my opinion has evolved.
I would now be in favor of keeping Coleman (of course), Godswill, Dual, and Felton. Felton could be the shooter we need (if we ever ran some plays for him to get open). We would still need to fill out the roster with another low post man with experience, a point with experience, and another shooter. That guy could be Middleton, too, but he's been pretty inconsistent. Same for Manny and Aligbe; I think we can upgrade at both of those positions.

I understand those who want to clean the whole house, but I don't think that will set us up for success. I think we need to retain talent that has had a year, at least, under Holloway, and fill in with experience.
 
Continuity is still important, especially for a coach like Holloway where it seems to take months to develop flow and trust to his standards. There are also plenty of examples of players on bad teams who got better and supplemented by roster improvement to become winning teams.

For me the list is Coleman, Erheriene as top priorities. Secondary is Aligbe, Dual, and Middleton as role players. I’m on the fence about Felton but a young shooter is probably worth it.

I would target a new backcourt + impact PF in the portal.
 
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Continuity is still important, especially for a coach like Holloway where it seems to take months to develop flow and trust to his standards. There are also plenty of examples of players on bad teams who got better and supplemented by roster improvement to become winning teams.

For me the list is Coleman, Erheriene as top priorities. Secondary is Aligbe, Dual, and Middleton as role players. I’m on the fence about Felton but a young shooter is probably worth it.

I would target a new backcourt + impact PF in the portal.
I'm with you. I'm mixed on Aligbe right now, he's had spurts. I didn't realize that the "overpaying" thread had morphed into this discussion, or I wouldn't have started this one. But I wouldn't have bumped that thread to the top again, either.
 
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Current roster would never play .500 in BE.Unfortunately it make take a number of years before we have team that can achieve that level and in the meantime we will have lost a portion of our fan base.
 
I am very surprised how many posters want to run back a lot of this year's roster. What is the old saying about insanity?
 
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For me, it’s about priorities. Priority #1 is getting 2-3 star players, whatever the cost. Coleman is the only current player that fits the mold, so he’s the only one I’d focus on as a priority. If he’s out the door already (as it sounds), they need to figure out ASAP who they want from the portal to lead the team next year. Be aggressive, act quickly and spend what it takes.

Once the star situation is figured out, it all comes down to money. What do we have left? In a perfect world, I’d want to keep Dual, Godswill, Middleton, Prince, and Felton (in that order). However, it depends on (a) their price and (b) whether we can afford better players to start over them.

Continuity is worth something, but less so on a team with 7 wins.
 
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My thoughts on Dual.

1. He is a first rate defensive guard. If he stays at the Hall he will be one of the best if not the best in the conference.

2. On offense he is not as proficient. In short he is not a finished product there. But if you watch his game he has the ability to grow. His handle is already Big East quality. His court vision is as well. He controls tempo which is what he is being asked to do but he has to learn to finish at the rim, get much stronger and work on his jumper outside the paint.

We are talking about SHU here. Sure our NIL is going to improve by leaps and bounds, but Dual will come at a reasonable price and if you project on his potential he absolutely can become our starting point. He has the work ethic, but for that to happen he must improve on his offensive issues.

Bring him back and recruit another high quality point and let them compete. There's 40 minutes available at the position and maybe more if they play together.
 
My thoughts on Dual.

1. He is a first rate defensive guard. If he stays at the Hall he will be one of the best if not the best in the conference.

2. On offense he is not as proficient. In short he is not a finished product there. But if you watch his game he has the ability to grow. His handle is already Big East quality. His court vision is as well. He controls tempo which is what he is being asked to do but he has to learn to finish at the rim, get much stronger and work on his jumper outside the paint.

We are talking about SHU here. Sure our NIL is going to improve by leaps and bounds, but Dual will come at a reasonable price and if you project on his potential he absolutely can become our starting point. He has the work ethic, but for that to happen he must improve on his offensive issues.

Bring him back and recruit another high quality point and let them compete. There's 40 minutes available at the position and maybe more if they play together.
Fu #2
 
It would be insane to have to assemble entire roster of 13 on an annual basis.
I absolutely hate Dual as a player, however NBA Scouts seem to like him. Old article but interesting:

 
Felton reminds me of Jahari Long with a better shot. Dual can develop & compete at a high level but not at point guard. He's too easy to defend. Don't have to worry about him blowing by you or taking the outside shot. One of the reasons our offense is such a mess.
 
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I think Aligbe is a player we could really use next season. He seems like the locker room guy we'll need and he's effective enough to be a contributor.

If we're asking him to be a vital part of the team, we'll be in trouble. If he can give 20 or so minutes per game with some decent production and solid defense he can fill a role.
 
I don't know how to truly evaluate Felton in this day and age. He's a three star freshman that did contribute at times., including a few starts. How many freshman outside of the 5 star studs really contribute much these days when teams are largely dominated by 22, 23 year old upper classman.
 
We need a pure shooter at the 2 or 3. A PG with quickness and who has an outside shot. A starting PF or Center. Keep Godswill, Dual, Aligbe and Felton. I see potential with Middleton but he's all over the place. Has that nice shot. Some games he's OK and others he disappears and offers nothing. I was so hopeful with him due to his length and shooting ability, but he's only worth it if we can bring him back at a reasonable amount.

I'm hopeful but not confident this staff can get it done.
 
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I don't know how to truly evaluate Felton in this day and age. He's a three star freshman that did contribute at times., including a few starts. How many freshman outside of the 5 star studs really contribute much these days when teams are largely dominated by 22, 23 year old upper classman.
I agree. He has hit the freshman wall the last 3-4 games I believe. Has nice form on his shot and is developing his handle. He's more of a 2 or undersized three. If he can get stronger and work on his quickness he can contribute, play better D and become a nice player junior year I believe. He should get better based on the minutes alone he is getting - valuable experience for a freshman. He's definitely a tweener though - not a PG and not a pure 2 or 3 but he can shoot and we don't have much of that on this team.
 
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I don't know how to truly evaluate Felton in this day and age. He's a three star freshman that did contribute at times., including a few starts. How many freshman outside of the 5 star studs really contribute much these days when teams are largely dominated by 22, 23 year old upper classman.
As a freshman, he's overmatched playing against men. He has a lot to work on but I think he can be a nice player by the time his college days are done.

The experience he has gotten is invaluable as it didn't look like he was going to get much run. The problem is opponents know who he is now and so they know they have to keep an eye on him.
 
Felton has a smooth-looking shot. Good size for a guard. Seems pretty fluid. But here we go again with another player that really cannot drive into the lane and finish, then floats and passes horizontally above the foul line stagnating our offense alongside Dual, can’t get out of trouble easily with the dribble, and isn’t quick enough yet.

He’s better all around and more agile than Jaquan Sanders with potential, but he must take a major jump. I can’t imagine he gets much if anything in NIL though.
 
My thoughts on Dual.

1. He is a first rate defensive guard. If he stays at the Hall he will be one of the best if not the best in the conference.

2. On offense he is not as proficient. In short he is not a finished product there. But if you watch his game he has the ability to grow. His handle is already Big East quality. His court vision is as well. He controls tempo which is what he is being asked to do but he has to learn to finish at the rim, get much stronger and work on his jumper outside the paint.

We are talking about SHU here. Sure our NIL is going to improve by leaps and bounds, but Dual will come at a reasonable price and if you project on his potential he absolutely can become our starting point. He has the work ethic, but for that to happen he must improve on his offensive issues.

Bring him back and recruit another high quality point and let them compete. There's 40 minutes available at the position and maybe more if they play together.
Would be fine on the last part of your plan -- bring him back with another high quality starter level PG, and let them compete.

Defense is the best part of his game right now - agreed. How good is he? I'm not sure. I think we (and other fans) overrate our own defenders. Preseason, you would have characterized Dual, DAW, Coleman, Prince and probably Middleton as high-level or potential high-level defenders. With Manny in the middle being a defense presence, and GWH an unproven commodity with his defense ahead of his offense. Take that and Sha supposedly being a defensive coach. And yet how has the defense been this year? Especially with our pace of play, which should result in lower scoring totals and make it easier on our defenders.

Could he develop into one of the best defenders in the league? Maybe. I think one can reasonably project that. But you can probably look at most BE backcourts/wings and say the same thing for so many kids. The metrics make it even more difficult to judge. I saw a metric from that Bart Torvick guy which had St. John's with 6 of the top 10 individual defenders in the league based on his metrics (basically the 6 kids who play the most). Obviously they are a good defensive team, but I don't know how to read into that when you look at defenders on other teams like Stevie Mitchell, Micah Peavey, Chase Ross, Diarra, Poplar and probably other guards/wings I'm forgetting. And factor in how "team' defense impacts "individual" defense.

Offensively, I see the profile, but I don't see the results. I don't see the court vision. I think his handle is fine coupled with his length that allows him to ward off defenders, but so much of the time all he is doing is dribbling the ball around and waiting to pass it off to someone coming off a screen or similar action. That's usually his "facilitation". It was telling that Sha deliberately put the ball in DAW's hands more this last game because he wanted to drive the ball. If you have a capable PG -- you aren't probably doing that.

On the work ethic -- I don't know. He had some borderline DNPs in the BE schedule. He had issues at Providence. No clue what the deal is here.

I'm still in on the kid to a degree, but I'm less bullish than preseason when we got him. And I don't see how the next few games before our season ends changes anything given the sample we already have.
 
Felton has a smooth-looking shot. Good size for a guard. Seems pretty fluid. But here we go again with another player that really cannot drive into the lane and finish, then floats and passes horizontally above the foul line stagnating our offense alongside Dual, can’t get out of trouble easily with the dribble, and isn’t quick enough yet.

He’s better all around and more agile than Jaquan Sanders with potential, but he must take a major jump. I can’t imagine he gets much if anything in NIL though.
Felton should have been getting 10 min max this season, getting used to the college game. Situations dictated using him more and there were bright spots and typical freshman spots.

Now, I'm seeing comparisons to Long (should never have been a high D1 player) and Sanders (never got into shape).

let the kid develop.
 
No one is saying that at all.
You want to turn the entire roster over. Frankly, that is an idiotic approach.
Functionally, I don't think we could turn over the roster even if we wanted to.

Regardless of the NIL situation, the staff though this team could compete in the upper-half of the league this year. Didn't happen. But there are kids besides Coleman with eligibility that the staff must still believe in, and they've been working with this group for like 8 months. There is a sweet spot between gutting the whole group and returning everyone, and I think most here are saying we should land in the middle (with different viewpoints on what that looks like).
 
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I could not disagree more.

Guess we'll see.
Likewise. I see great defensive skills and another year under Sha to make him more aggressive offensively. He runs the offense well and lately does not turn the ball over much. Still, painfully reluctant to shoot. But look at that form on FTs compared to Richmond at this stage and the regression to 57% FT percentage for Richmond this year after nearly 80 % last. Stick with Sha for another year, but we need 2 top tier guards to replace Dylan and Jenkins.
 
Likewise. I see great defensive skills and another year under Sha to make him more aggressive offensively. He runs the offense well and lately does not turn the ball over much. Still, painfully reluctant to shoot. But look at that form on FTs compared to Richmond at this stage and the regression to 57% FT percentage for Richmond this year after nearly 80 % last. Stick with Sha for another year, but we need 2 top tier guards to replace Dylan and Jenkins.
I don’t see how he runs the offense well. Our offense is awful. We are 2-16 in the freaking league!!! He really doesn’t do that much when you consider how much he has the ball in his hands. He’s averaging less than 3 assists per game on a team with no other PG and limited ball handlers/creators. He mostly gets “hockey assists” and rarely penetrates to set up others. Again we all want the same thing and I was as bullish on him as anyone, but I’m not seeing it. Hopefully if he stays he gets better.

I’m not a shooting coach, so I really cannot comment on one players form or mechanics. He isn’t a great shooter and I don’t know how much that can change. I don’t see why anyone would compare him to Kadary. I don’t know why Kadary’s FT% has dropped considering he has the best FG% of his career by far and is now deadly in the mid-range. Maybe it’s him being in the best shape and conditioning of his life. Who knows. I get folks want to pick a stat to further some narrative in their mind that the kid made a mistake in leaving, but I think the jury is long out on that one.
 
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I don’t see how he runs the offense well. Our offense is awful. We are 2-16 in the freaking league!!! He really doesn’t do that much when you consider how much he has the ball in his hands. He’s averaging less than 3 assists per game on a team with no other PG and limited ball handlers/creators. He mostly gets “hockey assists” and rarely penetrates to set up others. Again we all want the same thing and I was as bullish on him as anyone, but I’m not seeing it. Hopefully if he stays he gets better.

I’m not a shooting coach, so I really cannot comment on one players form or mechanics. He isn’t a great shooter and I don’t know how much that can change. I don’t see why anyone would compare him to Kadary. I don’t know why Kadary’s FT% has dropped considering he has the best FG% of his career by far and is now deadly in the mid-range. Maybe it’s him being in the best shape and conditioning of his life. Who knows. I get folks want to pick a stat to further some narrative in their mind that the kid made a mistake in leaving, but I think the jury is long out on that one.
Our team is offensively challenged because it cannot shoot. It impacts assists. Your saying he doesn't get in the lane when teams simply pack the lane because we cannot shoot the 3 well. To blame Dual for the many offensive deficiencies of the roster really makes no sense. The drop-off from Dual to Felton makes most games unwinnable for us.

With all that being said, Dual does get in the lane all the time. He is not proficient in finishing as he needs greater strength to absorb contact.

With all THAT being said, he had 5 true assists against a very good St John's defense. How many "hockey" assists did he have as well? Seems fairly productive in the assists category. Like this one:



Or maybe the one around 25:10 seconds of this linked video where he goes by Luis and gets into the lane for an alley oop to Godswill.

 
Our offense is terrible because there’s zero fluidity and low talent. We don’t have a PG and haven’t all year and it requires our best offensive players to do too much that’s a big part of it. Al-Amir Dawes was a better creator than Dual. As Sha said, Dual is a facilitator right now… that’s code. Why he had Addae-Wusu the ball more Saturday as he stated.

Copeland was like that before he worked hard and developed and took off as a Senior getting into the lane. Remember how Cerasoli would flash as a creator and people wanted him to play? Copeland would do what Dual does with a good 3PT shot until he started to drive more as a Senior.

Maybe Dual becomes that idk but we can’t bet on that if we want to get back to the NCAA Tournament in 2026. Get a proven guy in here with him.
 
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Our offense is terrible because there’s zero fluidity. We don’t have a PG and haven’t all year and it requires our best offensive players to do too much that’s a big part of it. Al-Amir Dawes was a better creator than Dual. As Sha said, Dual is a facilitator right now… Why he have Addae-Wusu the ball more Saturday as he stated.

Maybe Dual becomes that idk but we can’t bet on that if we want to get back to the NCAA Tournament in 2026.
Our offense is terrible, but lack of fluidity.l is not the issue. We had 16 assists against on of the best defensive teams in the country. We ran some great sets.

We cannot sustain effective offense because we don't have more than 2 players on the floor at any time that are a true threat to score on a consistent basis. Generally, it is Wusu and Coleman. When we get an Aligbe in spurts or Middleton in spurts, together with improved play of Godswill and Manny, we can compete. We just can't sustain all those things over the course of a game, let alone a conference season.

It is also why the lane is so clogged. Teams don't have to honor the 15 ft and out game of more than 2 or 3 players on the floor.
 
Our offense is terrible not because of no fluidity. We had 16 assists against the nest defensive team in the country. We ran some great sets.

We cannot sustain effective offense because we don't have more than 2 players on the floor at any time that are a true threat to score on a consistent basis. Generally, it is Wusu and Coleman. When we get an Aligbe in spurts or Middleton in spurts, together with improved play of Godswill and Manny, we can compete. We just can't sustain all those things over the course of a game, let alone a conference season.

It is also why the lane is so clogged. Teams don't have to honor the 15 ft and out game of more than 2 or 3 players on the floor.
One game. You know the numbers on the season right? It’s historically inept. Look what happened in the second half versus Villanova, etc. We’re 2-16. I know everyone is dying to be hopeful that we have something.
 
One game. You know the numbers on the season right? It’s historically inept. Look what happened in the second half versus Villanova, etc. We’re 2-16. I know everyone is dying to be hopeful that we have something

One game. You know the numbers on the season right? It’s historically inept. Look what happened in the second half versus Villanova, etc. We’re 2-16. I know everyone is dying to be hopeful that we have something.
You are making my point.
We played great against Nova in first half with a spectacular offensive performance of Wusu leading the way.

Wusu and the team could not sustain it in the second half and we went on to lose because Dixon is unstoppable and we could not finish plays on offense

Yes, we are 2-16. We are not good.
We are playing better basketball. All these things can be true.
 
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