Rebuilding

[Piratz]

How do we get back to the excitement of March? Obviously NIL and player evaluation/roster building are the top priorities, but besides that how do we approach getting the juice back in this place? Why don’t we already do these things? Is there a reason?

***With the roster, I assume the dream is dead of trying to build and evenly balanced 10-man rotation on a $1.5M budget. If it’s not, someone needs to kill it.

***On the court, Sha needs to change what he’s doing to prepare these teams in the summer and fall. We have been atrocious for two non-conference seasons in a row. It cost us an NCAA Tournament berth last year and this year it was the worst in our program’s history with the horrific losses.

***They need to create a system that markets their program and players. My God, put a calendar together and run features. We’ve talked about this all year with the new practice facility that could’ve been promoted, but simple things like featuring program history or the current player’s stories to get them connected to the fanbase like a “Kook’s Korner” type, or “This Week In…” longer form shows. We. Must. Promote. SHU Basketball. This is the insane to me in this day and age.

**They need to dramatically change their approach to media availability. I don’t care if it’s on Zoom or in a dedicated place in the practice facility, but Sha needs to do more of this between games. Every major program does this, we do next-to-nothing unless it’s a game day and that’s a problem.

 

[dehere23]

I would love to do a series like Vice that Ark and SJU are doing. Most cable outlets have this channel included in packages and you can watch the episodes on demand, like I have. I don’t know if someone would be interested but would explore.

 

[NYC Pirate]

Well it all starts next Monday. The most important thing is to improve the roster. Too many chances on guys with extreme skill deficiencies or who are learning the game of basketball. It adds up to a zero sum game.

 

[sami]

I would love to do a series like Vice that Ark and SJU are doing. Most cable outlets have this channel included in packages and you can watch the episodes on demand, like I have. I don’t know if someone would be interested but would explore.

If you only knew…

 

[MBF72]

I think it is ironic---- or just telling---- that Wisconsin and Louisville are in the tournament..... and we have Gus and Okorafor. Watching those teams this past weekend, and reflecting on our season, have to think those guys were pushed out.
Both guys play hard, but " Just the facts, mam."

 

[Piratz]

Well it all starts next Monday. The most important thing is to improve the roster. Too many chances on guys with extreme skill deficiencies or who are learning the game of basketball. It adds up to a zero sum game.

I think it is ironic---- or just telling---- that Wisconsin and Louisville are in the tournament..... and we have Gus and Okorafor. Watching those teams this past weekend, and reflecting on our season, have to think those guys were pushed out.
Both guys play hard, but " Just the facts, mam."

Sha swing and missed badly. To such an extent it’s scary.

 

[Section112]

Get some shooters in here, PG who can run the team and compete with Dual and a solid big that can man the D in the middle and score. That's all - lol.

 

[dehere23]

I think it is ironic---- or just telling---- that Wisconsin and Louisville are in the tournament..... and we have Gus and Okorafor. Watching those teams this past weekend, and reflecting on our season, have to think those guys were pushed out.
Both guys play hard, but " Just the facts, mam."

Pretty obvious Providence had zero issue with Dual moving on either.

 

[thehall07]

I would love to do a series like Vice that Ark and SJU are doing. Most cable outlets have this channel included in packages and you can watch the episodes on demand, like I have. I don’t know if someone would be interested but would explore.

This was brought up the board and they laughed and crushed any dreams of it being an option almost 2 years ago.

 

[MichiganStoleTitle]

This was brought up the board and they laughed and crushed any dreams of it being an option almost 2 years ago.

Why!?!

 

[Piratz]

This was brought up the board and they laughed and crushed any dreams of it being an option almost 2 years ago.

Lmaooo. That tracks with the entire operation right now. Pathetic.

It’s even more important now after 7-26, 2-18 and being branded a poverty program. We have the quietest new facility ever.

 

[thehall07]

I think it is ironic---- or just telling---- that Wisconsin and Louisville are in the tournament..... and we have Gus and Okorafor. Watching those teams this past weekend, and reflecting on our season, have to think those guys were pushed out.
Both guys play hard, but " Just the facts, mam."

Sha admitted he had to take a lot of guys sight unseen and didn’t have the $&$ / time to get guys early. One of these will not be an issue this offseason

 

[thehall07]

Why!?!

Because we are run like a Mickey Mouse operation.

 

[catholicman]

This was brought up the board and they laughed and crushed any dreams of it being an option almost 2 years ago.

Is piratecrew in charge of such decisions 😂?

 

[dehere23]

Sha admitted he had to take a lot of guys sight unseen and didn’t have the $&$ / time to get guys early. One of these will not be an issue this offseason

One of the things to keep in mind with the impending portal mania, from a fan perspective, is patience. The "bird in the hand" theory is nice, and sometimes true. But plenty of top kids did not commit last year until the latter part of April, May etc.

Key dates to keep in mind -- the NBA combine, which I think is in the middle of May and mid June, which is the deadline for players to return to school. Plenty of good players to really good players will probably run up against one or both of those dates.

 

[hallwins]

One of the things to keep in mind with the impending portal mania, from a fan perspective, is patience. The "bird in the hand" theory is nice, and sometimes true. But plenty of top kids did not commit last year until the latter part of April, May etc.

Key dates to keep in mind -- the NBA combine, which I think is in the middle of May and mid June, which is the deadline for players to return to school. Plenty of good players to really good players will probably run up against one or both of those dates.

I don't know. Feel like we likely overpaid for some of our late signings.

 

[hallwins]

I don't know. Feel like we likely overpaid for some of our late signings.

I am getting a vibe that key recruits are targeted and ready to go early. Let's hope they end up here

 

[dehere23]

I don't know. Feel like we likely overpaid for some of our late signings.

Perhaps. Dual and Toumi are the names people have brought up in that regard. But doesn’t mean that’s true in all cases. Kadary left here in May. Lots of other good players signed later (some early too). There is a definite risk at taking the first thing one can get, but of course this is why the staff is paid. To make those decisions and evaluations.

 

[thehall07]

Perhaps. Dual and Toumi are the names people have brought up in that regard. But doesn’t mean that’s true in all cases. Kadary left here in May. Lots of other good players signed later (some early too). There is a definite risk at taking the first thing one can get, but of course this is why the staff is paid. To make those decisions and evaluations.

A lot of kids committed late but we’re done deals much earlier. Key for Sha and crew is to actually have time to do research

 

[Piratz]

Perhaps. Dual and Toumi are the names people have brought up in that regard. But doesn’t mean that’s true in all cases. Kadary left here in May. Lots of other good players signed later (some early too). There is a definite risk at taking the first thing one can get, but of course this is why the staff is paid. To make those decisions and evaluations.

A lot of kids committed late but we’re done deals much earlier. Key for Sha and crew is to actually have time to do research

That’s the other thing about this year: The COVID 5th year players who have endless time as “grad students” are gone.

This staff has to walk and chew gum at the same time which is why you need to entrust scouting to someone.

 

[sami]

This was brought up the board and they laughed and crushed any dreams of it being an option almost 2 years ago.

Not sure exactly what you mean by this statement, but yes, we were first movers. Died on the vine.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Because we are run like a Mickey Mouse operation.

Mickey Mouse makes billions. We could only dream

 

[MichiganStoleTitle]

Not sure exactly what you mean by this statement, but yes, we were first movers. Died on the vine.

 

[Piratz]

They are against any modern marketing or branding. What I don’t understand is why. They don’t know better??

It’s gotten much worse since Shaheen took over and he comes off as a bit surly most of the time (unfortunately as is not him) and trying to isolate the team so I assume it’s connected.

 

[hallgrad80]

Until there’s a ‘no holds barred ‘ review by a truly experienced and independent committee to examine what’s wrong with the we the way we run our basketball program and our athletic dept. why would anyone think we can turn this mess we’re in around.

 

[Piratz]

Until there’s a ‘no holds barred ‘ review by a truly experienced and independent committee to examine what’s wrong with the we the way we run our basketball program and our athletic dept. why would anyone think we can turn this mess we’re in around.

I don’t think that’ll ever happen with this group. It would buck the trend. Our best hope is the money pours in and these guys have learned from their mistakes, including and most importantly Holloway. He runs the show there.

 

[shu67]

The model to rebuild and be in BE hunt and go back to NCAAs is the following. If we don't think big we will continue to be bottom dwellers. These are the players needed:

Back court: You need 2 guards who can shoot the 3 at 35% or better and free throws at 75% or better.
Front court: You need a small forward at the 3 spot who can shoot the 3 at 35% or better and free throws at 75% or better. (This eliminates Coleman who is a 30% 3 point shooter 2024-2025) Let him move on. He does not fit at all.
Front court: You need a power forward at the 4 spot who can rebound, defend and shoot the short jumper. Minimum 6'9" and bigger.
Center: You need a stud center who can rebound, defend and score and compete against other BE centers. Minimum 6'10" or bigger.

Sha just needs to follow this otherwise he will be done. Just watch the teams in the NCAAs and how they are built.

 

[bigraym]

And we need guys with "hands", I don't know how many time, this year, where rebounded balls hit our team's hands and deflects to our opposition! This aspect was also was quite evident in catching passes in the offensive end.
Fingers crossed we can improve!

 

[Piratz]

The model to rebuild and be in BE hunt and go back to NCAAs is the following. If we don't think big we will continue to be bottom dwellers. These are the players needed:

Back court: You need 2 guards who can shoot the 3 at 35% or better and free throws at 75% or better.
Front court: You need a small forward at the 3 spot who can shoot the 3 at 35% or better and free throws at 75% or better. (This eliminates Coleman who is a 30% 3 point shooter 2024-2025) Let him move on. He does not fit at all.
Front court: You need a power forward at the 4 spot who can rebound, defend and shoot the short jumper. Minimum 6'9" and bigger.
Center: You need a stud center who can rebound, defend and score and compete against other BE centers. Minimum 6'10" or bigger.

Sha just needs to follow this otherwise he will be done. Just watch the teams in the NCAAs and how they are built.

I hope the rumored pot Sha must work with is ready to go and the addition of a new assistant coach has made them better prepared in evaluation and scouting of players. Portal opens Monday.

I agree need an entire background court upgrade and an impact big. That’s 3 starters. Seems Coleman is gone but would also like him back.

Maybe Sha can take a lesson from Danny Hurley and how Danny evolved at this level from his early teams at Connecticut, more specifically valuing offense more. Danny has laid this out a few times in how overreliance on defense was holding his program back early on and he needed to address their upside.

For instance, Sha does not value the 3PT shot AT ALL, which I feel is crazy for a school under-resourced. That can work if you have guys like Richmond and Davis who can drive and score plus a competent big like Bediako, but to me it’s fighting with 1 arm tied behind our back in the modern era. He just prefers this street ball style with grinding it out in the paint; he’s consistent with it going back to St. Peter’s. So that would require (1) shooters, lol) and (2) a game flow creating spacing for them.

What was the major difference between the 2023-24 going 7-4 in the non-con then 13-7 in the BE? IMO, Dawes finding his outside shot and opening the floor.

 

[Rockaway]

Hard to belief Sha can change his overreliance on defense and that may prove to be his downfall.

 

[The Crows Nest]

I hope the rumored pot Sha must work with is ready to go and the addition of a new assistant coach has made them better prepared in evaluation and scouting of players. Portal opens Monday.

I agree need an entire background court upgrade and an impact big. That’s 3 starters. Seems Coleman is gone but would also like him back.

Maybe Sha can take a lesson from Danny Hurley and how Danny evolved at this level from his early teams at Connecticut, more specifically valuing offense more. Danny has laid this out a few times in how overreliance on defense was holding his program back early on and he needed to address their upside.

For instance, Sha does not value the 3PT shot AT ALL, which I feel is crazy for a school under-resourced. That can work if you have guys like Richmond and Davis who can drive and score plus a competent big like Bediako, but to me it’s fighting with 1 arm tied behind our back in the modern era. He just prefers this street ball style with grinding it out in the paint; he’s consistent with it going back to St. Peter’s. So that would require (1) shooters, lol) and (2) a game flow creating spacing for them.

What was the major difference between the 2023-24 going 7-4 in the non-con then 13-7 in the BE? IMO, Dawes finding his outside shot and opening the floor.

IT's working right now at St. John's....but Pitino has not hidden the fact that the one area he will absolutely look to improve on with next year's roster, is shooting...and specifically the 3 point shot. It is rare today that a team can excel without having, at minimum, competent 3 point shooters...and we need them badly.

 

[hallwins]

IT's working right now at St. John's....but Pitino has not hidden the fact that the one area he will absolutely look to improve on with next year's roster, is shooting...and specifically the 3 point shot. It is rare today that a team can excel without having, at minimum, competent 3 point shooters...and we need them badly.

They shoot 60% mid range.

 

[radecicco]

They shoot 60% mid range.

Yup. SJ is winning differently. Is this approach sustainable? The foul shooting worries me about SJ going into the tournament.

 

[dehere23]

Yup. SJ is winning differently. Is this approach sustainable? The foul shooting worries me about SJ going into the tournament.

It’s already proved to be sustainable through a regular season, at least this one. They have 30 wins and a million other accolades going into the dance. Other coaches like Sampson have had success playing this way too, more so in the past than his group this year which has a few guys who can really shoot it.

Will it result in an early round exit? Maybe.

Does that mean a team cannot ever advance that way, if they lose? Of course not. Others have done it that way, including two Louisville teams Pitino took to the final 4.

 

[hallwins]

It’s already proved to be sustainable through a regular season, at least this one. They have 30 wins and a million other accolades going into the dance. Other coaches like Sampson have had success playing this way too, more so in the past than his group this year which has a few guys who can really shoot it.

Will it result in an early round exit? Maybe.

Does that mean a team cannot ever advance that way, if they lose? Of course not. Others have done it that way, including two Louisville teams Pitino took to the final 4.

St John's is like the great PJ teams. They wear everyone down and win the games in the last 7 minutes.

 

[NYC Pirate]

I hope the rumored pot Sha must work with is ready to go and the addition of a new assistant coach has made them better prepared in evaluation and scouting of players. Portal opens Monday.

I agree need an entire background court upgrade and an impact big. That’s 3 starters. Seems Coleman is gone but would also like him back.

Maybe Sha can take a lesson from Danny Hurley and how Danny evolved at this level from his early teams at Connecticut, more specifically valuing offense more. Danny has laid this out a few times in how overreliance on defense was holding his program back early on and he needed to address their upside.

For instance, Sha does not value the 3PT shot AT ALL, which I feel is crazy for a school under-resourced. That can work if you have guys like Richmond and Davis who can drive and score plus a competent big like Bediako, but to me it’s fighting with 1 arm tied behind our back in the modern era. He just prefers this street ball style with grinding it out in the paint; he’s consistent with it going back to St. Peter’s. So that would require (1) shooters, lol) and (2) a game flow creating spacing for them.

What was the major difference between the 2023-24 going 7-4 in the non-con then 13-7 in the BE? IMO, Dawes finding his outside shot and opening the floor.

Really good post Piratz. He is truly locked into that style of play.

 

[dehere23]

St John's is like the great PJ teams. They wear everyone down and win the games in the last 7 minutes.

Agreed, another good comparison going back