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Rothstein on WFAN yesterday

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catholicman

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Nov 19, 2007
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CBS's John Rothstein was on WFAN yesterday talking college basketball and the upcoming NCAA tournament. He was severely critical of the Big East, calling into question its place among the power conferences in college basketball. He based everything on the league's performance in the NCAA tournament last year. He expressed serious doubts about the Big East.

When Joe Beningo asked him about Seton Hall, he also expressed doubts, saying the Butler loss really set us back. Then he recalled the 2012, 28 point loss to DePaul that destroyed our NCAA tournament chances. I don't understand why he would bring that up now, but he was clearly implying that he was expecting us to choke.

Thanks John Rothstein. You are going to look very foolish when the Hall not only makes the tournament, but makes some noise in it.
 
catholicman said:
CBS's John Rothstein was on WFAN yesterday talking college basketball and the upcoming NCAA tournament. He was severely critical of the Big East, calling into question its place among the power conferences in college basketball. He based everything on the league's performance in the NCAA tournament last year. He expressed serious doubts about the Big East.

When Joe Beningo asked him about Seton Hall, he also expressed doubts, saying the Butler loss really set us back. Then he recalled the 2012, 28 point loss to DePaul that destroyed our NCAA tournament chances. I don't understand why he would bring that up now, but he was clearly implying that he was expecting us to choke.

Thanks John Rothstein. You are going to look very foolish when the Hall not only makes the tournament, but makes some noise in it.
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He's probably interviewing for a full-time gig at ESPN and just setting the table.
 
He's right about the Big East's NCAA performances lately, and to me that holds as much weight, or more as any regular season RPI or other rating system when evaluating a conference.

I didn't hear the interview, but not all that unfair to bring up the DePaul loss either considering we close out our schedule with a possible must-win game there. That said, this is a different group of kids and shouldn't be painted with the same brush as some of our previous teams. Hopefully they prove him wrong, starting tonight.
 
He's been hammering that Butler loss since it happened.

Yes, the Big East needs to advance teams past the first weekend. That's how perceptions and reputations are made, fair or not.
 
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It will be interesting to see how the conference does this year. I am concerned we will only get 1 team into Sweet 16 again. It would be great to see Nova and Xavier make deep run and another team surprise and get to Sweet 16, but I have my doubts too. Anyway, i think the league will take a hit if Nova does not steamroll Temple tonight. It will look so bad if Nova which is rolling through conference loses.
 
He's usually a pro Seton Hall guy so I would not be too worried about it.

Some points:
The BigEast is actually better in my opinion this year. I think this is a year you could see 3
teams advance to the Sweet 16(Nova,,Xavier, and Butler). Providence, Seton Hall, Creighton or Gtown could all win at least one game if they make it.

Losing to Butler is not a bad loss, it's a disappointing loss. SHU needs to take care of business because if they get swept by Butler it could become problematic on Selection Sunday.

The DePaul game and SJU games are MUST games for Seton Hall. We need the wins and can't afford the hit to the RPI. We'll all be suffering in the leadup to that DePaul game and
remember that nightmare of a game in 2012. LOL We have way more talent this time around and I believe it will different this time around.

One at a time as I see it
 
The Butler loss was a big loss.

Whether people on here want to admit it or not.

18-6 (8-4) with 6 to play is a much better position than 17-7 (7-5) with 6 to play. Especially with the prevailing idea that we need to get to 21-9 (11-7) and 3rd place to have a solid shot at the NCAA.
 
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I don't get why everyone makes such a big deal about this Butler loss. We didn't lose to SJU or Depaul. Butler is a good team. Over the next 4 weeks you can almost guarantee that just about every team on the bubble will have a loss to a team equal to or less than Butler. Let's get the W tonight and then they will forget about or loss to Butler and they will start hammering the next bubble team to lose.
 
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shupat08 said:
The Butler loss was a big loss.

Whether people on here want to admit it or not.

18-6 (8-4) with 6 to play is a much better position than 17-7 (7-5) with 6 to play. Especially with the prevailing idea that we need to get to 21-9 (11-7) and 3rd place to have a solid shot at the NCAA.
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Yes and 19-5 is better than 18-6, and 20-4 is better than 19-5. We all know this. However we are in a good position. We have 2 games vs the weaker conference teams. 2 home games that we need to at least split and 2 other road games that are winnable. It's not as if our remaining schedule includes 2 vs Nova and 2 vs X. We are in a spot where we control our own destiny. Every athlete just wants a chance, and that's what we have.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
I don't get why everyone makes such a big deal about this Butler loss. We didn't lose to SJU or Depaul. Butler is a good team. Over the next 4 weeks you can almost guarantee that just about every team on the bubble will have a loss to a team equal to or less than Butler. Let's get the W tonight and then they will forget about or loss to Butler and they will start hammering the next bubble team to lose.
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Read my post above. I'll try to explain it again. It's not that we lost to Butler (they are good - and may make the Tournament).

We are undoubtably on the bubble. Before Butler we had 7 games to win 4. With only 3 home games. Still Good position.

Now we have 6 games to win 4 with only 2 home games. Not as good position. Plus the butler loss knocked us out of a bunch of brackets.

Our OOC is so weak we have almost no room for mistakes. Butler loss was not quite a mistake. Tonight's loss would be a mistake, and would make the situation dire.

So is tonight more important? Yes - but only because we lost to Butler.
 
TheBluePirate said:
I don't get why you think that Butler loss was no big deal.
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Because it's not. It's a tough loss, but it's far from a season killer. Do we still have the potential to get where we want to be? Yes. Do we have an impossible schedule to get there? No. It's what we do from here on out. You can go back to early Jan, I wasn't upset with the loss vs Creighton because I liked that Willard sat everyone. I was in the minority. It turned out to be a great move. This team is good. To expect them to win every time they step on the court is ridiculous. Overall they have been playing good basketball. If that continues they will be just fine and the Butler loss is no big deal.
 
@SHUHoopsFan and by losing to Butler. We closed our own door - even if we only closed it a tiny bit.

We were in control of our destiny. We still are. But the chances to walk through that door are smaller. Because the door was closed a tiny bit more due to the butler loss.

If this doesn't make sense, I understand you're position will never chance.
 
LOL this is obviously going nowhere

You're right losing to butler didn't matter.

We should have just never played and given them the win. It didn't matter.
 
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shupat08 said:
LOL this is obviously going nowhere

You're right losing to butler didn't matter.

We should have just never played and given them the win. It didn't matter.
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So based on what you said if we had won vs Butler, we shouldn't have taken the trip to Georgetown because a loss down there would be okay???? You still play the game, but not every game is life or death. The Butler loss on it's own is not a dagger.
 
Dude. You obviously haven't been reading my posts.

When did I say that the Butler loss on its own was a dagger?

No where.

It was a big loss because it may prevent us from achieving our goal. It closed the door - no matter how minutely - on our chances to dance. And it now prevents us from any mistakes.

Those above statements are correct. Whether you like them or not, sorry.

That's what I've been saying in this whole thread. That's what you are arguing against.

Don't try to change the argument from a "big loss" or "important loss" to "dagger on its own".
 
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People in the know at The Big East office are worried about how many bids will be received. Playing cupcakes when your being watched by the big boys was not very smart by some of the teams including Seton Hall. Going forward the league has to prove it's worthy of 5 bids but this past season I'm not so sure they did.
 
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shupat08 said:
Dude. You obviously haven't been reading my posts.

When did I say that the Butler loss on its own was a dagger?

No where.

It was a big loss because it prevented us from achieving our goal. It closed the door - no matter how minutely - on our chances to dance. And it now prevents us from any mistakes.

That statement is correct. That's what I've been saying in this whole thread. That's what you are arguing against. Don't change the argument from "big loss" to "dagger".
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How did it prevent us from achieving our goal. It didn't. That would be known as a dagger if it prevented us from achieving our goal. We didn't make the NCAA tournament because we lost to Butler???? Has that been determined?
 
Edited before you posted to "may prevent".

So in that whole post you nitpicked 1 word?

Sorry try again.
 
Dude we just went 4-1 in a 5 game stretch. Anyone would have signed up for that. We've been playing good basketball. No loss helps, but not every loss is a big deal. Just like nobody is talking about the Creighton loss or the GW loss anymore, as time goes on nobody is going to talk about this loss. All that matter's is what we do next.
 
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The butler loss is not a bad loss in terms of .. South Carolina losing at Missouri, Vandy losing at Miss St., maybe not even equal to Mich losing by 10 @ Ohio St.

Bubble teams lose games, if they didn't they wouldn't be bubble teams. We had a great opportunity to beat Butler at home and give us some separation from the cut line, we were not able to take advantage of the opportunity. Let's move on.

Seton Hall is 6-4 away from home. We need another big one tonight.
 
LOL.

So it went from "no big deal" to "it hurts". Okay.

You're right it does hurt. Because we are a bubble team and in many brackets we dropped out and it caused us to lose a place in the standings (thank god CU lost last night). Which meant we had to rely on other bubble teams to lose for us to keep pace (not totally in control of our own destiny).

Big loss. It def hurt. Let's hope not too much.

"Every game counts." - Larry Brown
 
The loss to Butler isn't horrible , it doesn't help but not horrible. A win would be so much better, but losing to butler is not the nail in the coffin. We weren't going to run the table, I don't get why the huge fuss over this loss. It is a big deal if we lose tonight, which we won't. I don't really care who has us in or out after that loss, the season didn't end Wednesday night. Butler loss is only horrible if the team slumps now, and if they do it wouldn't matter because they wouldn't have earned it. Just win tonight, win Sunday and there will be no reason to talk about what happened last week , just what will happen next Thursday .
 
shupat08 said:
LOL.

So it went from "no big deal" to "it hurts". Okay.

You're right it does hurt. Because we are a bubble team and in many brackets we dropped out and it caused us to lose a place in the standings (thank god CU lost last night). Which meant we had to rely on other bubble teams to lose for us to keep pace (not totally in control of our own destiny).

Big loss. It def hurt. Let's hope not too much.

"Every game counts." - Larry Brown
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So it's cool when you nit pick 2 words?
 
Those 2 words changed on your part. If they were a typo you could have edited them before I reponded. Nice try.
 
The next three games will tell us what the Butler loss meant. If we somehow win out the next three games it will probably be looked at as having been a motivating factor, if we go 1-2 (or worse) it will be looked at as the beginning of another Feb. swoon, but more likely, we will be back in the precarious bubble situation we are in now, with that loss being a big factor in not being comfortably on the right side of it.
 
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Also what's the point of going crazy about Georgia, WSU and other teams we played winning or losing? Just win, that's all you should care about. Unless a team goes on a huge run and goes to the conference championship but 1 game here or there won't do anything. You want Georgia and GWU to make runs in the conference championship. But all that is pointless depending on what SHU does. If we have to be concerned about if a team we played earlier wins or loses to move up slightly in Rpi then we don't deserve anything
 
So, let me get this straight The BE bids this year are determined by how we did last year in the NCAA's, not how the League did in the OOC for this season. That seems absurd. South Carolina and Texas A&M were high seed locks up until recently.SC lost at Missouri who's RPI is 170. But it's only the Hall that has these horrific loses to a Butler. It's never as horrible as the Negative gang states nor is it as wonderful as the Blue colored glasses thinks. For the most part I make my own predictions.
 
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I think this debate about the Butler loss is fairly comical as I think both sides are splitting hairs. As far as I am concerned both the Butler loss and the home loss to Villanova were bad losses. They were bad losses because we did not defend the home court and because we squandered opportunities to win and separate us from the rest of the Big East. I would much prefer to be 9-3 heading into the final six games as we would be a virtual lock to make the tournament. By losing both of these winnable games we gave away any cushion we had to making the tournament and now we must win 4 of the remaining games. Looking at the team and basing my decision only on this year's results, I believe they have the talent and fortitude to get it done. I am in the camp of just win your games and everything will take care of itself. I am not worried about what former opponents are doing as they are in the rear view mirror. But if we do not win tonight it will become very hard.
 
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I didn't listen to the interview but what did he say that was really off base? The BIGEAST has preformed horribly in the tournament recently, and that is what most people base their opinions on.

I fear Villanova might not make it to the second weekend which will look horrible for the conference.
 
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lr, why not add the Creighton loss at home and be 10-2 going into the final 6. Heck with that record we'd be a top 15 team. But the truth is we are not a top 15 team. We are too inconsistent. But overall from early Jan to right now we are a much better team and that's what matters going into the final 6. In Jimmy V's famous speech, he talks about knowing where you are, and going from where you are to where you want to be. Our program wasn't a top 10 program coming into this year. Not sure anyone even predicted we'd be a tournament team this year. That's where we started. We want to be an NCAA tournament team. It's not magic where you want it to happen so we get 18, 19 wins by now. There's ups and downs. But we're playing well more times than not and doing what it takes to get to where we want to be. The Butler loss was a down, but if we get up vs Georgetown and take care of the games we should the rest of the way the Butler loss will mean nothing as far as getting to where we want to be.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
I don't get why everyone makes such a big deal about this Butler loss. We didn't lose to SJU or Depaul. Butler is a good team. Over the next 4 weeks you can almost guarantee that just about every team on the bubble will have a loss to a team equal to or less than Butler. Let's get the W tonight and then they will forget about or loss to Butler and they will start hammering the next bubble team to lose.
Click to expand...

Agree with this. Was it disappointing? Yeah. But it seemed like all of a sudden we fell from solidly in to right on the bubble according to those in the media. But those guys typically overreact. We've still won 4 of our last 5 games which is great this time of year.

No matter the result tonight you'll see the media overreact again. Win and it'll be "Seton Hall looking golden and a solid tournament team" (even though the same guys had us on the bubble today). Lose and it'll be "Seton Hall at a crossroads, in dire straits at 7-6 in the Big East. NCAA prospects bleak."

It's just silly. So much can happen over the course of 6 games plus a conference tournament.
 
I think we need a 4 and 2 record with no losses to DePaul or at johns, and at least one win in the tourney to sleep well at night before Selection Sunday
 
We are a bubble team, any loss from here on out hurts. We have 1 top 50 RPI win and 0 top 25 RPI wins. When your resume looks like that you can't afford to lose games you're favored to win period.
 
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shupat08 said:
Read my post above. I'll try to explain it again. It's not that we lost to Butler (they are good - and may make the Tournament).

We are undoubtably on the bubble. Before Butler we had 7 games to win 4. With only 3 home games. Still Good position.

Now we have 6 games to win 4 with only 2 home games. Not as good position. Plus the butler loss knocked us out of a bunch of brackets.

Our OOC is so weak we have almost no room for mistakes. Butler loss was not quite a mistake. Tonight's loss would be a mistake, and would make the situation dire.

So is tonight more important? Yes - but only because we lost to Butler.
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Absolutely on point.
 
SOBO1 said:
We are a bubble team, any loss from here on out hurts. We have 1 top 50 RPI win and 0 top 25 RPI wins. When your resume looks like that you can't afford to lose to games you're favored to win period.
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This is the whole ball of wax. Starting back with LBSU.
 
We lost to LB State in November. Who by the way have a decent RPI. Have you seen some of the loses that Bubble Teams have accumulated in the early part of the season. Will some of the posters ever let that one die. These are the same posters who predicted 6 wins in the BE with a 15 win season. Sadly, everyone has an agenda
 
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