I did not include the Creighton game because we were never in that game. We never had a chance to win. The rest of your comment is basically the same as mine and SHUPAT. We all believe if the team keeps winning that there will be no issue but if we do not we will all point to the Butler game as the beginning of our downfall.
Rothstein on WFAN yesterday
- Thread starter catholicman
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Worst writer out there, everybody is good, every team is good, every team can surprise, blah, blah, blah....................
He's not a journalist, he's a suck-up.
We are in an "okay" position. A good position would be sitting at a 7 or 8 seed with some cushion. A great position would be a 1-5 seed. Some people are fine with just having us on the bubble. Others actually want this team to succeed and get to the tournament. Too many Gonzo and Willard years have made people cheer for even mediocre progress. Bottom line is that Butler is a bubble team, and if you want to get to the tournament you beat other bubble teams on your home court.
Some people still don't get it on this point. We aren't the old Big East. The moment it was confirmed that we were splitting, coaches should have had the foresight to start scheduling harder. You can't afford not to schedule hard now. Willard has had 5 years to learn this lesson. Any schedule with 5+ cupcakes tells me you don't believe in your squad. Either step it up or go to a program with less pressure.
Just look at how the new additions schedule and how it's worked out:
Kenpom NCSOS for 2016 and 2015
Xavier: 128 now and 115 last year (went to the tourney last year and will this year)
Butler: 281 now and 172 last year (went to the tourney last year, outside looking in now)
Creighton: 283 now and 296 last year (out last year, and likely out this year)
It's not an absolute that bad NCSOS means you're out, but it's clear the committee can see what you are doing if you fill up on cupcakes. Our out of conference impresses no one and we need to step it up.
Well said. If you can believe it, some posters came on this board after the 2012 losses to DPU and Rutgers, and declared it no big deal, not a failure, etc, because we weren't supposed to be that good anyway.
It's right there for the taking now. No more time for learning experiences, moral victories, and taking nights off. This team is just as good if not better than alot of these other crummy bubble teams.
Somebody on this board said PUT UP OR SHUT UP, or something to that effect. I think he's said it more than once! LOL Now me, I would say Shit or GET OFF THE POT. If ever there was a time to do that, it's the next two weeks.
His list of Chandler Parsons comparators also includes every mid-sized, semi-competent white guy who can make a jump shot.
Two huge games tonight in the Big East: Providence at Xavier and Seton Hall at Georgetown. Friars and Pirates need to keep winning. #shbb
And this year was an improvement despite the high number of cupcakes again because at least we beat a couple of decent-to-good teams. We're #73 in non-conference RPI despite the weak SOS.
But the bottom line is this team has it all in front of them at 17-7, 7-5. If they don't earn an NCAA berth it'll be because they choked.
The team has enough talent to dance. They are in position to dance. Anything short of getting a bid is a failure. Improvement over last year is not enough. Waited long enough, just win and end the run of years with a tournament win. Tonight is huge.
Getting back to Rothstein....last night on CBS after the game he noted that Nova, Xavier and Providence were in with other Big East teams in the mix.
How the heck is Providence in and SHU still working on their resume? Both have work to do and IMO the Hall has a better chance to Dance than the Friars.
How the heck is Providence in and SHU still working on their resume? Both have work to do and IMO the Hall has a better chance to Dance than the Friars.
Because Rothstein is terrible.
Providence is another BE team that just looks terrible lately.
The guy is awful yet if you read this post people agree with him about what a big deal our 1 recent loss is.
Two words:
Arizona-Villanova
They've got two top 25 wins. The committee loves top 25 wins. They lost one game in the OOC to Mich State. If they get to 9-9 they've even still got a shot. High seed, but they might still be in. They also end the season with Depaul and Creighton at home and then St. john's on the road. Even if we beat them they could end up 10-8 and solidly inside.
I've been with you on Providence all year (one of the most overrated teams in the country) but they deserve to be a couple seed lines ahead of Seton Hall for now. However, SH is closing in fast. If the Hall wins this Sunday and beats PC next week, I think the Friars will fall behind us in the pecking order. Right now though the neutral court win over Arizona and road win at Villanova carry a lot of weight. PC is 8-4 in road/neutral games (but has lost 3 of those in a row). SH is 7-4 in road/neutral games so not far behind, but lacks the marquee win that PC has.
It's a shame that the Hall is one basket away (Villanova home game) from sitting in an incredibly comfortable position right now. At 19-6 (9-4) with a marquee win to brag about, we'd be sitting pretty. In fact, Providence is hanging onto a good spot because of its win at Villanova in a close game. Without that, PC would be in dire straits. Ironic. But nothing we can do about that now, it's in the past. Just keep winning.
He said one thing the other night I agree with: Vandy has been the single biggest disappointment in the country this season. Terrible job down there this year.
I don't know how Stallings is still employed (even before this season). Career underachiever who has been there far too long.
For those that think Providence has a better resume.....
Kenpom
31 Seton Hall .8458
56 Providence .7834
RPI
41 Seton Hall
37 Providence
Big East
Seton Hall 8-5
Providence 7-7
At Providence
Seton Hall 81
Providence 72
Trending - Last 6 games
Seton Hall 5-1
Providence 1-5
Kenpom
31 Seton Hall .8458
56 Providence .7834
RPI
41 Seton Hall
37 Providence
Big East
Seton Hall 8-5
Providence 7-7
At Providence
Seton Hall 81
Providence 72
Trending - Last 6 games
Seton Hall 5-1
Providence 1-5
Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein 16h16 hours agoSeton Hall completes a season sweep of Georgetown in D.C. Hoyas may be the season's second most disappointing team behind Vanderbilt.
Again, I agree with you that we're the better team. But subjective opinions do not matter when you're analyzing a tournament resume. That's why you see them about 2 seed lines higher than us, and deservedly so.
When you objectively look at wins and losses as the NCAA selection committee will, PC has the better tournament resume at this point in time. The bottom line is they have two RPI top 25 wins away from home. We don't. Will we pass them in the pecking order eventually? Yeah, I think so.
As I see it.
Computer numbers don't lie although they can be tweeked.
Head to head doesn't lie either. Especially when your win is on the road.
Standings in the league don't lie when both teams play the exact same schedule. Of course this will have to play out in the next couple of weeks.
For all the reasons I note here and above in my other post I believe both teams still have work to do and in no way is either a lock to Dance.
That was my point re Rothstein's comments.
Simply put I like our chances better then theirs at this point.
Computer numbers don't lie although they can be tweeked.
Head to head doesn't lie either. Especially when your win is on the road.
Standings in the league don't lie when both teams play the exact same schedule. Of course this will have to play out in the next couple of weeks.
For all the reasons I note here and above in my other post I believe both teams still have work to do and in no way is either a lock to Dance.
That was my point re Rothstein's comments.
Simply put I like our chances better then theirs at this point.
Agree. Providence has been trending downward. Since they beat Nova on 1/24, they have only beaten Gtown(twice) and are 2-5. Not how you want to go through Feb.
I think Prov is a lock.
They are top 25 team. They lost at Marquette & are still in the top 25.
They beat Nova on the road
Arizona on a neutral court.
The committee doesn't care whether you're trending upward or downward.
They have 2 stars who the media loves.
They are top 25 team. They lost at Marquette & are still in the top 25.
They beat Nova on the road
Arizona on a neutral court.
The committee doesn't care whether you're trending upward or downward.
They have 2 stars who the media loves.
You basically accepted Pat's entire point. And I have been standing there with him as well.
Well Providence is in the AP and USA top 25 and we beat them on their home court so that should count for something. No?
The problem is with PC and WSU sliding we may have 0 top 50 wins unless we beat X. I'm actually hoping after next Thursday PC gets it together.
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Both Providence and the Hall still have work to do. Neither is a lock at this point.
Providence has the easier schedule moving forward but they do have to play the Hall on the road. That winner IMO will be close to an NCAA lock.
Kenpom
Seton Hall
Sun Feb 21 234 St. John's W, 77-67 84% Away
Thu Feb 25 54 Providence W, 75-68 74% Home
Sun Feb 28 15 Xavier W, 75-74 55% Home
Wed Mar 2 43 Butler L, 76-73 39% Away
Sat Mar 5 179 DePaul W, 75-67 77% Away
Providence
Thu Feb 25 31 Seton Hall L, 75-68 26% Away
Sat Feb 27 179 DePaul W, 77-64 89% Home
Wed Mar 2 45 Creighton W, 74-71 61% Home
Sat Mar 5 234 St. John's W, 75-67 78% Away
http://maps.google.com?q=Allstate+Arena,+Rosemont, IL&z=9&num=1&t=m
I'd rather be SHU in that scenario. Much rather play tougher teams going into the BE and hopefully NCAA tourney and keep working and improving.
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