You’ll find any excuse to disguise being a St John’s fan. Laughable. Springsteen is even laughing.
Sad but not shocked
- Thread starter NYShoreGuy
- Start date
I just find some posters so full of themselves.
I’m not going on the thread on the women’s final four game regarding the illegal screen because I really don’t care about women’s basketball. I’ve watched some, but I don’t follow it.
But I’m not going on a thread to say “women’s basketball isn’t as good as the men’s” or something else derogatory.
Some people are just desperate for attention and need to be heard
I’m not going on the thread on the women’s final four game regarding the illegal screen because I really don’t care about women’s basketball. I’ve watched some, but I don’t follow it.
But I’m not going on a thread to say “women’s basketball isn’t as good as the men’s” or something else derogatory.
Some people are just desperate for attention and need to be heard
What do ratings say? Had the highest rating since 2010 NIT final.
Look, no SHU fan wanted the NIT as the goal BUT when were were snubbed I 100% wanted to see them accept the bid and win the whole damn thing as a double barreled you know what to the COMMITTEE. It also in Sha’s second season sets a tone that you don’t want to face SHU in a tournament setting. If I’m not mistaken we won as many post season games as we did the past decade combined.
A whopping 13 out of 226 brackets on bracketmatrix had us in. Disappointment yeah, snub no. And if you read any of the articles after the game at MSG, based on the way they reported how dejected Sha was, you have to believe he knew we were in trouble too. We had 2 GREAT WINS that I assume no bubble team could match. We also got destroyed by Xavier(20), Villanova(26) and SJU(19). Add to that bad losses to B1G opponents Iowa(13) and RU(7 at home), 4 road losses to tournament teams by 18 or more each and at some point those great wins can't carry you past everything. 3-4 15+ losses can be overcome by those monster wins but not 7. 3 15+ point losses in our last 5 games going into the selection Sunday made us look like a team on the decline. We could match wins with any bubble team but our losses were too much to overcome. Thats the final impression we gave the committee as a bubble team. So if you think we got snubbed maybe the world hates us not just the committee because 213 brackets had us out.
I never understood how after the fact results determine whether they got it right or wrong. Nobody ever says they got the 2 and the 3 seed wrong when a 3 beats a 2. or the extreme example, NC State should've been the 1 seed based on how it played out after. Results after the fact don't stick it to them. But if you look at it that way based on they're analysis they expected us to win the NIT since OU said no thanks. We finished as the committee expected with us 1st and 3rd team out ISU finished second.
I guess if you don't consider the big east tournament post season then yes and also since 2001 combined. My logic has always been POY, COY, All conference teams are selected after the season, which happens to be before BET, so I've always considered BET postseason. And why does everyone ignore the BET results as part of a tournament setting?
Awful take. Shaheen was upset after a loss. What a surprise.
You make it seem like we had no shot. I believe we should have been in, but it took 4 or 5 bid stealers to knock us out. And I believe we should not have been in the range to be knocked out.
Stats can be spun many ways.
No that's how you want to take it. I'm not saying we had no chance obviously 13 people had us in so some people believed in us, but the overwhelming number of people who have no good or bad feelings toward Seton Hall had us out and I listed a lot of facts that are probably the reason why. Without those bad losses bid stealers would have been irrelevant to us.
Even counting that, We won1 NCAA game and maybe 5 BET games so Sha equaled that in 2 seasons.
Sorry I disagree. We were snubbed. 13-7 in conference. 5-7 quad 1 and 9-11 quad 1&2. Michigan State was 2-9 quad 1. Virginia was equally bad. If there is a conference that produces a bid stealer and they have teams on the bubble in conference they should automatically the conference knocked off the bubble. There is no justification for Mountain west getting 6 teams while BE getting 3. NET needs to be trashed. If you win or lose by 2 or 20 it counts as 1 win or loss. There are nights your team just doesn’t have it or have. Team. Beat early but you’re forced to play your starters risking injury and preventing development of bench players just to help your net.
5 BET games?
2014 2 went to semis
2015 0
2016 3 Champs
2017 1 lost in semis
2018 0
2019 2 lost in finals
2021 1
2022 1
10 BET wins in the past 10 BETs. You missed out on probably 5 of them. too bad.
I remain of the impression that Val truly dropped the ball and would hope that she quietly disappears ( which She is good at).. This was as much a Big East snub as it was to SHU. Providence and Johnnies had absolutely no chance to get in Tournie ( without winning Tournament )
She further dug her Grave ( at least with me ) by failing to attend /acknowledge the NIT Championship. Should have been there with "the retired empty suit AD" she appointed to Selection Committee (maybe he was too busy cleaning his Butkler Office) and promoting Big East. Conference was well served with TV ratings for Conference Championship and NIT -- the howling should still be there --Conference has to Thank Danny Hurley for still beating the Drum. Never again should there be only 3 Big East Teams --in fact less than 5 is an insult
I liked Willard.
I thank God he left when he did and we got Sha. To think of Sha at St John's or somewhere else in the conference, makes me very upset.
I respect that 100%, but to like a post that says we won 5 BET games in the last decade is liking Fake News or a post that could essentially knock us out of the tournament if a Depaul won the BET is just insane.
There were a few other things to like in that post including we were snubbed. You have a bit of an agenda on this one.
Or I just think a good percentage of unbiased people should think we deserved in for it to be a snub. 13 out of 226 isn't that.
There are plenty of people that are not SetonHall fans who think we were snubbed.
Many on this board continue to miss (or ignore) one of the underlying principles of the selection process: teams are evaluated individually, voted into the field individually, and then ranked individually on the seed list. Conference affiliation does not factor in.
The committee doesn't sit there and say stuff like, the Big 12 was the best conference so we're going to give them 7 bids, the Big East was #2 so we're going to give them 6, etc. That simply does not happen.
Yes, the Big East was the #2 ranked conference by the metrics (which many on here hate, by the way!), but a big part of that was the overwhelming strength of Connecticut. The middle of the league was soft and the bottom was really bad. Here's a rough example (not to scale, obviously) of how you'd rank teams in the BE on a vertical axis.
Connecticut
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Creighton
Marquette
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Seton Hall
St. John's
Providence
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Villanova
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Butler
Xavier
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Georgetown
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DePaul
Huge gaps between tiers. So people say it's the #2 conference (as that's what it averages out to, thanks to UConn's strength) but it really only had 3 of the 11 teams to fit the bill.
The committee doesn't sit there and say stuff like, the Big 12 was the best conference so we're going to give them 7 bids, the Big East was #2 so we're going to give them 6, etc. That simply does not happen.
Yes, the Big East was the #2 ranked conference by the metrics (which many on here hate, by the way!), but a big part of that was the overwhelming strength of Connecticut. The middle of the league was soft and the bottom was really bad. Here's a rough example (not to scale, obviously) of how you'd rank teams in the BE on a vertical axis.
Connecticut
.
.
.
.
.
.
Creighton
Marquette
.
.
.
.
.
Seton Hall
St. John's
Providence
.
.
Villanova
.
.
Butler
Xavier
.
.
.
.
Georgetown
.
.
.
.
DePaul
Huge gaps between tiers. So people say it's the #2 conference (as that's what it averages out to, thanks to UConn's strength) but it really only had 3 of the 11 teams to fit the bill.
Heard from a very good source that Rick said he would accept the NIT only if a 1 seed. Glad the selection committee said "no thanks." 🤣
Just like they say the NET is not used to select, yet the NET ranking creates the Quads which are supposed to be the underlying principles of the Committee selection process. You continue to ignore that fact. The NET played a huge role in selection indirectly.
The only thing this year showed me was that the Committee has no principles uninformed applied.
And by the way @SHUHoopsFan, the Committee barely takes into consideration the BET or any conference tourney. But, if I wanted to prop up Willard, I would use BET performance as well because you certainly cannot use the NCAAs or NIT under his Seton Hall tenure.
The only thing this year showed me was that the Committee has no principles uninformed applied.
And by the way @SHUHoopsFan, the Committee barely takes into consideration the BET or any conference tourney. But, if I wanted to prop up Willard, I would use BET performance as well because you certainly cannot use the NCAAs or NIT under his Seton Hall tenure.
Some guy said we won 5 postseason games in the last decade which is completely made up. This isn't about Willard vs Sha, This is about Seton Hall basketball. We're 2 years removed from being in 5 of 6 NCAA tournaments. We're not building up from nothing where the NIT is a stepping stone to better things. We had to fall to end up in the NIT. As much as 8/9/10 seeds sucked that's a better year than the NIT. If I had to rank the tournaments it's NCAA first, BET second, NIT third. Why would anyone prop up the NIT.
I would agree. But Seton Hall, the team and the staff got way more out of this run than any of our first round departures. I suspect you will disagree, but that is my opinion.
Why does everyone group the hall with st johns and providence? We are a step above them and deservedly so.
I have a question for you all...... since we got snubbed, are you NOT proud that we went on this run giving a big f-u to those who doubted us? My question is... How would you feel if we were this NIT #1 seed and got smoked in round 1 showing to those snubbers "see look they didnt even last in the NIT" or how do you feel that we actually did something, in all my years watching SHU, we ALWAYS in past practice did NOTHING in the NIT , so I take pride in this title, it does go in the history books, and no we are not the 66th best team either, you take away the 12-16 seeds immediately cause we all know they are well below us, and then the 11/10 seeds are similar ....
I suspect only the transfer portal will answer that question. We definitely got a banner out of this but I don't know what else. I mean I suspect most recruits don't care about NIT championship or 1st round loss, it's about money. So yeah other than a banner I'm not sure what we got out of this. I'm more worried over the next month and a half or so hearing other schools watched and said we could use that Richmond from Seton Hall or Tae we can pay your brother more to play here at ND. If so we lost more than we gained. But that's the reality of new age college basketball. The system sucks. But if we land more than we lose then yes may gain more in the NIT run.
But at the same time it's still NCAA, BET, NIT in that order.
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The chance of us keeping both of those players was remote. Pretty sure teams knew what they could do before the NIT. But, I guess that makes an argument to lose the opening round of the NCAAs and NIT if you want to look at it that way.
The goal is to win in the NCAA tournament to build a large donor base but also get the wealthy alums who are currently not involved to start giving. If you think the NIT is did that then I'm board with you. But keep getting to the NCAA and eventually crack through. To me that's the key. That's why it's NCAA or bust. You gotta be in it to win it.
The odds of keeping both of them was small. But I'll bet the odds increase greatly if we crushed SJU at MSG, played UConn tight and won even a play in game in the NCAA.
Don't agree unless you are saying that UConn is so far ahead of every other team in the country that your difference between them and Marquette/Creighton, both top ten like teams is justified.
You are skewing your post by making it seem that Marquette and Creighton were just ok when you know that's not true.
The rest of your breakdown, although again too many dots between the teams is fine.
How about this for a better picture
Connecticut #1
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Creighton Top 8-15
Marquette
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Seton Hall Top 40-50
St. John's
Providence
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Villanova Top 60-65
.
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Butler 75-100
Xavier
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Georgetown Top 185-200
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DePaul Top 300
Nope, I've said Marquette and Creighton are very good. It's just that UConn is far ahead of both of them. UConn is an elite team.
SHU09 and myself have difference of opinion on many a subject but he is absolutely accurate on this post
Another PDS conspiracy theory lol. I’ve become a conspiracy theorist but there is no way that’s true.
If you went by Kenpom which is what I thought this exercise was doing, aren’t us, SJU and Prov all better than the range you have them too?
The UConn part is correct. But you did not say on the post those two teams are very good. That's why I posted as I did.
Surprised that a few Seton Hall fans take so much time with statistics to try and prove their team didn't belong.
I posted my opinion.
As for Kenpom, I often paste their info for discussion but at times strongly disagree with them .
Well, let’s hope we get another 13-7 year next season. Had a real shot to be 14-6 with wins over the top 3 who all went to the S16 Those types of BE seasons are tough to come by around here and sucks it don’t get us into the Tournament.
What a strange year with an amazing turnaround from the summer prognostications on this site and non-con.
What a strange year with an amazing turnaround from the summer prognostications on this site and non-con.
Almost 95% of brackets done on selection Sunday had it that way. If you think everyone just put us out without doing their homework, that's good but I doubt it. there’s a lot of statistics that back up the committees choice and the bracketologists came up with the same solution based on the data. If you’re supposed to follow the company line and just say yeah we got hosed, that’s crazy. I mean if at least 40% had us in I would say we had a legit gripe. When almost 95% of people have us out and they’re not SHU haters, I say they called it as they saw it.
I do understand where your coming from, but for me, I can't see myself trying to prove or state why my team DIDN'T make the dance.
Many of the bracket makers said it was going to come down to what the Committee prioritized. This is the issue many have. The lack of consistency.
I don't recall 95% of brackets having us out on Selection Sunday, but if that was the case, I am not arguing.
I don't recall 95% of brackets having us out on Selection Sunday, but if that was the case, I am not arguing.
We knew we were possibly screwed with the 5 fluke steals in the conf tournaments. So we ended up 2 out.
I would’ve had us higher, enough to just survive by either the last team or second to it that but they disagreed as did most who do bracketology bc we had warts they felt were worse than comparable teams. We didn’t do enough to survive that wave.
But it’s been weeks. The season is over. What there to still debate? We made the most of it took care of the NIT. I’m happy we did that.
I would’ve had us higher, enough to just survive by either the last team or second to it that but they disagreed as did most who do bracketology bc we had warts they felt were worse than comparable teams. We didn’t do enough to survive that wave.
But it’s been weeks. The season is over. What there to still debate? We made the most of it took care of the NIT. I’m happy we did that.
