Seton Hall Fan
- Thread starter Halldan1
- Start date
eh, kind of think a lot of his complaints are overblown. They're complaints that are completely dwarfed by wins and losses.
OK, the gear isn't that nice,
i haven't seen an interview with the new players,
nobody cares if the team is 8-0 and ranked right now, just win
the problems with the program begin and end with 3 horrible losses..
would trade a million ugly quarter zips and promotional nights for a ranked team.
OK, the gear isn't that nice,
i haven't seen an interview with the new players,
nobody cares if the team is 8-0 and ranked right now, just win
the problems with the program begin and end with 3 horrible losses..
would trade a million ugly quarter zips and promotional nights for a ranked team.
Most are really spot on but I'm tired of hearing the ignorant Corey Lowery high school principal garbage. He was not a high school principal when hired by Sha/Seton Hall. He was coming off a 2-year stint as head coach at Lincoln University (certainly a much lower level) with a record of 21-10. Prior to that he was a JUCO coach with a record of 245-63, 152-19 in-conference.
I'm not saying he should be on the staff of a high major program but he is a good basketball guy. Just tired of all the agenda-driven misinformation. You don't do yourself any favors by lying about him and disrespecting Shaheen.
A big miss, IMO, which they also just re-upped on long term, is outsourcing the revenue generating departments.
And they're not alone! Many colleges do the same thing because they want to focus on athletic administration and not be bothered with the business side of the athletic department.
This is no criticism of Learfield employees working at SHU - they're great. But they can be just as great as SHU employees without the vendor taking a cut of ticket and sponsorship sales.
It's not all bad, I'm sure there's a risk mitigation element to the contract, but it also caps potential upside and IMO this is an aspect of the business they should want full control of.
And they're not alone! Many colleges do the same thing because they want to focus on athletic administration and not be bothered with the business side of the athletic department.
This is no criticism of Learfield employees working at SHU - they're great. But they can be just as great as SHU employees without the vendor taking a cut of ticket and sponsorship sales.
It's not all bad, I'm sure there's a risk mitigation element to the contract, but it also caps potential upside and IMO this is an aspect of the business they should want full control of.
Just get some players who can shoot the ball please, try starting with foul shouting. The rest will fall into place. If you can’t shoot fouls you just can’t shoot. It’s not a novel approach . Please consider a basic concept.
I noticed this in Charleston. During pre game warm ups and especially getting ready for the start of the 2nd half, players on the other teams went to the foul line to take a couple of FTs. Not once did I see a SHU player take a FT during warm ups. A big deal, who knows but it seems to indicate that despite what the coaches say, the players don’t properly value what it takes to get better from the stripe.
Our warm up routine has always stunk. No structure to it. After watching Gonzaga warm up when they kicked our ass in Arizona I was so impressed and then watched them take us to the woodshed. Not sure when our coaches will wise up and put some structure around warm-ups. It provides discipline and develops skills.
In fairness, we shot free throws really well last year. And Sha has commented in the past how many free throws he has the guys take in practice.
In the end, Sha is our guy. He will figure it out. For him to become a head coach at a major program during this tumultous time along with our schools NIL shortcomings, there is going to be a learning curve. Trust me, if he left, we would be so screwed. I am very confident in him. He has shown me too much over the last 3 years to lose confidence in him.
Hopefully he is beginning to realize that he can't have just defensive guys, as there is no time for development any more. He is going to need to save up some NIL money for a bucket getter.
Not saying you are wrong... but you are only seeing like 10% of the warm up routine as a fan. There are 2+ hours of warms ups with players getting shots up, running drills, getting a sweat going, going over defense, stretching etc that all takes place before fans are even able to get in the building.
Saying you watched one team have a better warm up than us is really just saying they did lay up lines better than us...
Agree that SetonHallFan…probably over emphasizes the assist coach hire aspect but agree that it part of the systemic program problem. Why didn’t we go big on any of the hires?
SetonHallFan on twitter has been better with sharing awareness of seton hall men’s bball related items then the team’s own’s team page. In this day and age, not being as active on social media and own team shu page is super unhealthy when it’s all about capitalizing on fan booster support. He has been doing it better since the beginning of Willard era.
Add the closed door atmosphere that Sha has built, on not sharing with supportive press, not hyping players bc living in fear players will be recruited from here, it hurts.
While this doesn’t contribute directly to W and loses, it does hurt the program, and over time can ruin what was a healthy program from a PR point of view.
SetonHallFan on twitter has been better with sharing awareness of seton hall men’s bball related items then the team’s own’s team page. In this day and age, not being as active on social media and own team shu page is super unhealthy when it’s all about capitalizing on fan booster support. He has been doing it better since the beginning of Willard era.
Add the closed door atmosphere that Sha has built, on not sharing with supportive press, not hyping players bc living in fear players will be recruited from here, it hurts.
While this doesn’t contribute directly to W and loses, it does hurt the program, and over time can ruin what was a healthy program from a PR point of view.
I’ll use this time now, while I am already ripping on Sha and the program, to name a few other items I don’t like to date.
So some internal folks(could have been former players) fed punks like Jeff Goodman inside info that we have no NIL resources, fine, can’t prevent that and while it’s mostly true, Sha essentially broadcasts it to the world hurting our image and recruiting even more.
Now when asking the casual college basketball fan thoughts about SHU, they first think we have poor NIL resources. Where is our marketing to counter that negative press? Sha instead legitimizes it and uses it often as an excuse to make himself look better that he making miracles happening here under his leadership like at St. Peter’s. The fact is we have been worse under him then Willard.
Add in Sha’s 12 player rotation and how he brags about it, and his old school yelling communication style, who want to come here?
I’m not happy with how the admin or Sha is running this program the last 3 years, who would be when you expect to be in tourney every year? Last year was his best year and it’s when he learned to lean on his best players (though forced).
So some internal folks(could have been former players) fed punks like Jeff Goodman inside info that we have no NIL resources, fine, can’t prevent that and while it’s mostly true, Sha essentially broadcasts it to the world hurting our image and recruiting even more.
Now when asking the casual college basketball fan thoughts about SHU, they first think we have poor NIL resources. Where is our marketing to counter that negative press? Sha instead legitimizes it and uses it often as an excuse to make himself look better that he making miracles happening here under his leadership like at St. Peter’s. The fact is we have been worse under him then Willard.
Add in Sha’s 12 player rotation and how he brags about it, and his old school yelling communication style, who want to come here?
I’m not happy with how the admin or Sha is running this program the last 3 years, who would be when you expect to be in tourney every year? Last year was his best year and it’s when he learned to lean on his best players (though forced).
I wanted to touch upon the Sha closed door approach for a second.
Just speculating but these could be other angles.
1. Injury liability concerns
After the Myles Powell fall out, I can understand why details about specific injuries are not disclosed. We wanted to win so bad all we could do was ask when Myles was going to come back and play. Then information possibly gets distorted and you end up with a lawsuit.
Willard was also constantly pressured for updates on the Bryce Aiken concussion process and then last year we had the General Soreness situation. All these become unnecessary distractions for the team in the middle of the season. You even watched Sha get angry with the media when they wouldn’t let the Alexis Yetna injury situation go, all the way towards late in the season.
We obviously want answers, but whoever is able to suit up that night to play is all the coach can concerns themselves over.
2. Setting unrealistic expectations.
On numerous occasions the media has seen a practice or two and then wrote a preseason article hyping up the potential of specific players.
One example would be Jamir Harris. Based on the early write ups, fans were led to believe that his personality and practice performance was going to carry his 20 ppg success at American over to Seton Hall and become our go to guy, big shot maker, and closer at the end of games.
Harris fell well short of that and his early season struggles IMO led to his pressing even harder to live up to those expectations. If I am a coach, I want none of those external factors effecting my players.
A big part of the head coach job in high major athletics is to be good with media. A good coach should be charismatic and at least a little open with media and def not abrasive.
What I am saying is there are ways to answer questions or address the elephant in room besides giving direct PHI to press. Be a politician, answer a diff question, talk about the wine you just bought over the wkd, ask permission from player to reveal injury related info. You don’t need to live in fear on the podium, just be smart with what is said if legal issues are a worry. I don’t think he handles that stuff well.
As far as Jamir, he was ruined by Sha 🤣. Maybe it was the shoulder, maybe it was playing too hard on defense, maybe it was the Sha yelling affect, but he had a decent first year with us percentage wise with Willard.
We remember the start of Jamir’s tenure with the Hall a little different.
He came in off of a season in which he shot 43.8% from 3 pt range at American.
In his first 17 games he really struggled shooting the 3 ball. He was at 33%. But that was also inflated by a 6/10 game at Walsh Gym vs Nyack.
I think he did a good job of finding a way to be a contributor by the end of the season.
But the original hype articles did not paint the narrative that Harris would go on to average 7.9 ppg for the year.
And then yes he was set back by the shoulder injury the following year under Sha.
I would rather go the season winless and refuse to pay the players anything more than the almost $280,000 in FREE EDUCATION we are already giving them. NIL, the transfer portal and pure greed has ruined college sports. Sorry but I wont donate another $ to the program until the NCAA finds away to fix this mess. SHU cannot win in this environment so why throw away money. Should we find a diamond in the rough for a price we can afford he will be gone the next year. it is impossible to build a team. There is no loyalty only greed.
Unfortunately SHU basketball has joined the NBA, NFL and MLB in my bucket of things I used to love.
Unfortunately SHU basketball has joined the NBA, NFL and MLB in my bucket of things I used to love.
All I know is it’s grown into a massive industry with billions upon billions of dollars flowing through it from all sorts of different outlets, from advertising to television to filling professional arenas to donors to entertainment and beyond. So, I have no issue in principle with those generating this getting a cut because it’s not amateur anymore, there’s too much life-changing money involved now. Somewhere along the line the tuition was the reward and that was good enough, but no longer.
How it’s being managed is a total calamity and based on greed. The NCAA is trying to have its cake and eat it too, protecting their viability and devoted revenue streams for themselves by creating chaos for the schools and conferences so players can get paid. Isn’t there a better way to do this by pooling everything and having some transparency and agreements?
Our NIL issue is not why we’re 4-4 and NET #200 with 3 awful losses. Our decision making and player eval is the problem plus we look terribly coached on offense. Want to tell me our NIL is the reason we go 4-16 in the BE because we’re outgunned? Fine. But losing games to mid-majors? No.
Agreed. It's a societal/generational thing in large part. College basketball was a bigger deal and more popular in the 80s/90s/early 00s. Now it's a niche sport with a strong, but narrow following. Back when college hoops was bigger, the players may have been getting paid under the table at most places but they didn't make a stink about it publicly. They showed up, played hard for the school and coach they committed to, and mostly stayed 3-4 years. They embraced the present instead of primarily looking for the next step or next pay day. Arenas were sold out and important games were on TV with big audiences. Look at Seton Hall, perfect example. Sold out the Meadowlands in the early 90s and now can't draw more than 10-12,000 to the biggest, most important games in a better arena.
This generation of young people is more entitled, impatient, selfish, and softer when it comes to criticism. When the going gets tough, they look for the easy way out and next pay day. Just the way it is. It used to be about the team, program, and winning culture. Now it's all about the "personal brand" and how each individual can milk the system to maximize his income.
Had surgery after the season, is my understanding. Seems to be faring well now overseas.
I’ll take 33% from 3, lol. Jamir ended up having a solid first year at the Hall but maybe my memory is fuzzy. Compared to his last year epic fail with Sha, his first year with us was prob all star level tho 🤣
Let me ask you this. What affects a player’s performance more? a zagsblog post and message board fodder unfairly hyping up a player preseason? Or …hockey player subbing? no coherent offensive schemes a lot of the time? Constantly yelling at the player for mistakes? Being forced to play out of position bc of poor roster construction?
At least with a little preseason hype (in todays college bball) that means potential more $ for the player possibly next year if they perform, with us or another team. Or even possibly a confident boost you need them having when playing in big moments.
The only 3 valid reasons for Sha not to allow your players to be hyped up in my opinion is 1) not allowing the vultures/agents to catch wind of how good they are so other teams don’t steal the player 2) so when the player doesn’t live up to potential, the coach doesn’t catch the blame for why said player didn’t succeed.
A distant third IMHO is players being tied to too high of expectations and hurting their psyche and having them try to hard.
With all due respect, accusing Sha of ruining a player is way over the top.
No worries.
Yeah, im critical of Sha right now but do not blame him on Harris. Jamir was given a lot of opportunities to turn it around and had set plays run for him. Prob shoulder issues
I always thought Harris was a good guy to come in off the bench, set a few plays to get him his shot. Was not a BE athlete, BE starter and did not play the best D. Got exposed when he had to play a lot of minutes against good, athletic teams. He was still a good player. I'd love it if we had a deep team to bring him off the bench to score some points for us.
I will take exception with the statement that KW was better than Sha. Not really true if you measure their first three years of their tenure at SHU. KW was handed a fairly talented team when SHU let Gonzo go and barely missed the tournament the first year. In the next two years KW fielded some of the worst teams we have seen in the last 35 years. Sha on the other hand was handed a team that was not very talented in his first year and had us in position to get us in the tournament with 5 games to go and lost them all after Kadary hurt his back and missed the end of the season. In year 2 of Sha’s tenure he got his team into 4th place in the conference and under any fair analysis should have had a bid to the dance. The team did not get that bid but then did something unexpected as they were able to win the NIT which was a bonus for all of the fans. This year seems like it will mirror some of KW’s worst teams. That is on Sha but the year is not done. He may get the team to play better. I doubt it but he has earned the right to try. After this year I am sure he will attempt to make changes to the lineup to correct the problems. So my final statement is Sha has way outperformed KW over his tenure but KW’s early years are a low bar.
That’s actually not true
KW 2nd…not first season when he came Theodore FTs away from making the tournament (a great FT shooter btw)
We also no showed DePaul and Rutgers to ruin that season..similar to shas no show vs St. John’s
Also why does everyone act like Sha was not here with KW for those early bad teams..it means nothing?
