As Tom so correctly pointed out this is a sports board isn't it. There are appropriate forums to discuss religion, race, sexual preference , abortion rights and other similar subjects that generate intense , heated and contentious debate where a poor choice of words can create an impression of a poster that is not reflective of who that person is or what there true view is.Let's go back to discussing sports on this Board before this discussion turns into a real " p**sing contest".
Sickening?
- Thread starter Halldan1
- Start date
This has been and still is a major topic on ESPN. Prominent articles have been written by the NY Post and the Daily News today in their sports sections. It's all over sports twitters.
This is as much a sports story as is the Sterling situation.
Sports figures are involved. In the latter case a college FB player that was just drafted in the NFL and the reaction by a college BB player to what was shown on cable TV.
This is as much a sports story as is the Sterling situation.
Sports figures are involved. In the latter case a college FB player that was just drafted in the NFL and the reaction by a college BB player to what was shown on cable TV.
Dan
I must disagree that this is still a sports story. The Daly News and The Post are covering and hyping it to sell newspapers , ESPN is still pushing it to draw viewership. The story is about a kiss between two gay men , one of whom is a college football player who was drafted in the 7 th round and , al least to me, that has nothing to do with sports. The sports story was about a gay FB player coming out and whether as a marginal football player he would be drafted .
I must disagree that this is still a sports story. The Daly News and The Post are covering and hyping it to sell newspapers , ESPN is still pushing it to draw viewership. The story is about a kiss between two gay men , one of whom is a college football player who was drafted in the 7 th round and , al least to me, that has nothing to do with sports. The sports story was about a gay FB player coming out and whether as a marginal football player he would be drafted .
First, please explain how homosexuality being natural is "common sense". Quite the opposite! How can you assert a theory that contradicts everything we know about science, biology and genetics? If survival of the fit is true, AND being homosexual is genetic (which it is not, but it is being claimed to be), then homosexual traits should have been bred out of our specie thousands of years ago. According to survival of the fittest, only the strongest will survive to pass down their genes to the next generation, thereby ensuring that each specie is most fit to survive the rigors and hardships of life. If homosexuals cannot procreate with other homosexuals, then these genes would not survive. So the conclusion must be that homosexuality is a choice, NOT nature/natural.
Sorry, I cannot respond to rosary comments. I am not Catholic, and I don't believe God instituted playing with beads, repeating prayers over and over again. I fully agree also with your comment that religion is a type of media! Religion has been used to brainwash masses throughout history and to achieve political gain! In fact, bravo sir, one of the greatest examples of this EVER, is how Constantine changed "Christianity" to suit his political agenda to the unification of his empire!
Interestingly, the so-called "homosexual behavior" your claim has been "observed in nature", is no more than natural dominance being displayed by animals. In the animal kingdom, this is a normal part of mating and societal instinct especially for animals living in groups or herds! Probably not dissimilar to a heterosexual male telling another hetersosexual male rival to "suck my d*ck"! Yes, this is normal dominance and animals being animals. The truth is those animals do not engage in homosexual lifestyles, and all can and do produce offspring. Moreover, even if it was observed in nature, that would be no more an argument for homosexuality than calling cannibalistic chimpanzee parents "normal" translating also to human behavior. God designed the species to function in a certain way. When they function outside of that design, they are DYSfunctional.
WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE!!! That to me, is even more atrocious because it is not consensual! Certainly an issue that needs to be looked at! Thank you for bringing that up! Which brings me to my next point, how long until incest, polygamy, pedophelia, necrophelia, bestiality, etc are considered to be "normal"? All they need is a powerful lobby and the media on their side, and in one generation it can be reality.
I disagree; it becomes a sports story because if Sam wasn't gay, he would've been selected well before the 7th round. So his sexual orientation clearly influenced a sports decision. I listened to Philly sports talk radio agonize for four days over the Eagles taking a talented pass rusher a few slots too early. So when the SEC defensive player of the year (who, despite protestations to the contrary, has NFL size for an NFL middle linebacker) lasts until the last dozen picks, you have a league that still has not confronted its issues nearly 60 years after Jackie Robinson. This discussion belongs here, unless we need one more offseason thread about a speculative starting five for 2016.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
By the way, I have SO much more to say about this, but working on a smartphone is not he way to go. I'll contribute my $0.02 when I'm in front of a proper computer again.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
I did not think he was higher than a seventh round draft choice or undrafted FA based on the info provided by the draft experts. I am not sure he would have been drafted much higher. I actually thought that he only got drafted because the NFL would have gotten major media criticism if he was undrafted.
Well, there have been plenty if guys with less favorable size who were drafted higher who have had very good NFL careers. This guy was the player of the year in an expanded conference, so I'd feel pretty good about taking him in, oh, let's see, about round 3. Don't believe the ESPN bullshit.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Catholic Man - I plan on fighting the gay lifestyle as soon as I finish fighting the systemic protection of sexual predation in the Catholic Church, superstition, ignorance and faith.
Lots of draft experts did not think he would be drafted based on his performance at the combine. And lots of draft experts get it wrong year after year. But to say this early that he was taken in the 7th round because of his coming out is just way too early and more piling on in my opinion. Time wil tell. There are many very good college players who don't have what it takes to get to the next level. I can think of a few Heisman winners in fact.
I think the thought police have officially jumped the shark with this one.
Attempting to convince heterosexual men that they shouldn't have a disgust response to the sight of two men making out is something akin to trying to convince heterosexual women that internet porn is a beautiful thing.
Good luck with that.
I think it's a good thing that gays can be themselves and live the lives that make them happy. But nobody should waste their time trying to convince straight men that they shouldn't hear the word YUK echoing in their head at the sight of Michael Sam locking lips with his boyfriend. Straight men have natural feelings and reactions too.
Attempting to convince heterosexual men that they shouldn't have a disgust response to the sight of two men making out is something akin to trying to convince heterosexual women that internet porn is a beautiful thing.
Good luck with that.
I think it's a good thing that gays can be themselves and live the lives that make them happy. But nobody should waste their time trying to convince straight men that they shouldn't hear the word YUK echoing in their head at the sight of Michael Sam locking lips with his boyfriend. Straight men have natural feelings and reactions too.
No one chooses to be gay. You are or you are not gay. There are countless stories of tortured people who have hid their homosexuality for fear of being social outcasts. However , I respect the right of others to disagree with me. I try not to judge people for their lifestyles or beliefs.
His sexual orientation had little to nothing do with where he was selected. Bottom line is Sam is a borderline NFL prospect. This comes from current and former player personnel leaders I have spoken with, several of which are extremely supportive of Sam. They relayed a lot of positives regarding his character, but not so much about the football side. They noted his lack of a true position and well below average athleticism as major problems. His stats, they say, don't match the tape. Some Heismann Trophy winners slide to later rounds. Typically, the SEC Def POY isn't waiting until the 7th round. Sam is an exception to the rule and from afar his draft position can appear to be something it is not. In fact, several of these same individuals guaranteed he'd be drafted, because Roger Goodell was making damn sure it'd happen.
I'll go rapid fire on my other thoughts about random points found in this thread:
- This is a story. This is a sports story. Period. If you disagree you're really agreeing that you don't know what a story is.
- It won't go away for a while, so buckle up or get your content changing trigger finger ready for that remote, mouse, etc. If we're going to get beyond 'openly gay NFL player' being a big story, we've got to get through it being a story first.
- This is not Jackie Robinson. That's not to say it isn't significant or Sam won't face discrimination. Jackie did what he did in a very different society, which is a huge difference. Robinson was a legitimate player that was prevented from playing. Sam is a borderline player (at best) that will not be prevented from playing. He'll have more support than Robison ever had, but if Sam doesn't make it, the PC police crazies will be out in full force crying foul.
- The PC police crazies need a tall glass of STFU. Respectful and/or intelligent opposition goes into hiding for fear of being labeled a bigot far too often. When Sam came out, how many players admitted they'd be uncomfortable with Sam as a teammate when asked? Everyone is cool with it? Everyone? I can tell you, everyone isn't. It's ok to admit you'd be uncomfortable with it if that is the case. Tolerance is tolerance. We have to tolerate people who respectfully disagree or have a different view. I'm not offering the right to be ignorant or say whatever stupid, misguided thought that pops into ones head. Seeing Sam and his boyfriend kiss doesn't bother me at all. Don't care. If it made you uncomfortable, I support your right to say so. Just don't be an ignorant a-hole. And PC crazies, chill the hell out. Let's find the middle.
- A lot of attention on gay marriage. Why so little for straight divorce? Just saying...
Wow, that's pretty disappointing coming from a man of the cloth. Homophobia finds its way to some interesting places. Also, when the phrase "liberal media" is used, it sends a clear message that the speaker has embrced the standard right wing nutbag pablum.
EyeOn
College Basketball
Gary Parrish
College Basketball InsiderMarshall Henderson is the latest to learn insensitive remarks do damage
Forget for a moment that Marshall Henderson tweeted words early Monday and presented himself as a homophobe, and disregard, if you can, that his subsequent explanation for publicly calling the image of Michael Sam kissing another man "nasty ass sh*t" was that he was helping a friend with some sort of weird social experiment.
Whatever.
Henderson's beliefs and motivation for expressing them are beside the point for the purposes of this column, because this isn't about what a criminal turned Division I basketball player does or does not think of the first openly gay man to be ever be drafted by an NFL franchise. This column is about the level of stupidity it requires for a person to tweet wildly controversial remarks upon leaving college and embarking on a quest to earn a paycheck somewhere, and that's why this entire episode should serve as a teaching tool for any and all aspiring professional athletes ... and professionals in general.
Don't kill yourself with public displays of ignorance.
Don't give companies any extra reasons to stay away from you.
Regardless of how you feel about homosexuality or televised acts of affection, it's quite clear, at this point, that taking a stand against equal treatment and rights is unpopular with the majority of reasonable Americans and almost all big businesses. I mean, just over the weekend, the Miami Dolphins fined and suspended defensive back Don Jones because he tweeted that Sam's kiss, moments after the Rams selected Sam on Saturday, was "horrible." And surely you've heard how Donald Sterling is on the verge of losing the Los Angeles Clippers because of insensitive remarks caught on tape.
So there's precedent here at all levels.
Felons can be tolerated.
So can drug addicts and alcoholics and generally flawed people.
But folks who show themselves as bigots will be shouted down and pushed aside quickly in this country in the year 2014, and yet there was Henderson, a little more than a month before the NBA Draft, highlighting himself as a homophobe for all the world to see.
That Henderson later rationalized the tweets as "research" doesn't matter.
Whether you buy the rationalization or not matters even less.
The point here is simple: By the time Henderson tried to explain his tweet, the damage was done. Ole Miss athletic director Ross Bjork had already publicly expressed "disappointment" in who has been, for at least the past 18 months, the school's most recognizable athlete, and every major news outlet in the country had already quoted the insensitive remarks. There never was going to be a way for Henderson to unring that bell, even if the tweet genuinely doesn't reflect his beliefs. And so he's either a homophobe or an idiot, and possibly both.
Either way, it's sad.
I enjoyed watching Henderson play at Ole Miss and found him to be a fascinating personality, and though I rarely watch European competitions or D-League games, I might, I guess, if he were involved. And he might still be involved. Who can tell for sure? All I know is that the NBA has long been out of the question for lots of reasons, and that some doors that might've otherwise been open will now certainly close because of the negative publicity Henderson would bring, thanks to the negative publicity he created Monday.
His documented drug problems are one thing.
His criminal background is another.
In this country, those issues are confronted daily, and the average citizen is typically willing to give such offenders second and third chances, if necessary. But it can be difficult to put insensitive views in your past once those views have been expressed publicly, and regardless of whether those views were expressed in a serious manner or for some other dumb reason. Whether Marshall Henderson grasped as much before Monday, I have no idea. But he would've been wise to research that reality before he started researching anything else.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24559641/marshall-henderson-is-the-latest-to-learn-insensitive-remarks-do-damage
College Basketball
Gary Parrish
College Basketball InsiderMarshall Henderson is the latest to learn insensitive remarks do damage
Forget for a moment that Marshall Henderson tweeted words early Monday and presented himself as a homophobe, and disregard, if you can, that his subsequent explanation for publicly calling the image of Michael Sam kissing another man "nasty ass sh*t" was that he was helping a friend with some sort of weird social experiment.
Whatever.
Henderson's beliefs and motivation for expressing them are beside the point for the purposes of this column, because this isn't about what a criminal turned Division I basketball player does or does not think of the first openly gay man to be ever be drafted by an NFL franchise. This column is about the level of stupidity it requires for a person to tweet wildly controversial remarks upon leaving college and embarking on a quest to earn a paycheck somewhere, and that's why this entire episode should serve as a teaching tool for any and all aspiring professional athletes ... and professionals in general.
Don't kill yourself with public displays of ignorance.
Don't give companies any extra reasons to stay away from you.
Regardless of how you feel about homosexuality or televised acts of affection, it's quite clear, at this point, that taking a stand against equal treatment and rights is unpopular with the majority of reasonable Americans and almost all big businesses. I mean, just over the weekend, the Miami Dolphins fined and suspended defensive back Don Jones because he tweeted that Sam's kiss, moments after the Rams selected Sam on Saturday, was "horrible." And surely you've heard how Donald Sterling is on the verge of losing the Los Angeles Clippers because of insensitive remarks caught on tape.
So there's precedent here at all levels.
Felons can be tolerated.
So can drug addicts and alcoholics and generally flawed people.
But folks who show themselves as bigots will be shouted down and pushed aside quickly in this country in the year 2014, and yet there was Henderson, a little more than a month before the NBA Draft, highlighting himself as a homophobe for all the world to see.
That Henderson later rationalized the tweets as "research" doesn't matter.
Whether you buy the rationalization or not matters even less.
The point here is simple: By the time Henderson tried to explain his tweet, the damage was done. Ole Miss athletic director Ross Bjork had already publicly expressed "disappointment" in who has been, for at least the past 18 months, the school's most recognizable athlete, and every major news outlet in the country had already quoted the insensitive remarks. There never was going to be a way for Henderson to unring that bell, even if the tweet genuinely doesn't reflect his beliefs. And so he's either a homophobe or an idiot, and possibly both.
Either way, it's sad.
I enjoyed watching Henderson play at Ole Miss and found him to be a fascinating personality, and though I rarely watch European competitions or D-League games, I might, I guess, if he were involved. And he might still be involved. Who can tell for sure? All I know is that the NBA has long been out of the question for lots of reasons, and that some doors that might've otherwise been open will now certainly close because of the negative publicity Henderson would bring, thanks to the negative publicity he created Monday.
His documented drug problems are one thing.
His criminal background is another.
In this country, those issues are confronted daily, and the average citizen is typically willing to give such offenders second and third chances, if necessary. But it can be difficult to put insensitive views in your past once those views have been expressed publicly, and regardless of whether those views were expressed in a serious manner or for some other dumb reason. Whether Marshall Henderson grasped as much before Monday, I have no idea. But he would've been wise to research that reality before he started researching anything else.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24559641/marshall-henderson-is-the-latest-to-learn-insensitive-remarks-do-damage
Am I the only one that think he wont do anything in the NFL? Im thinking knee injury within the first year.
Christianity has survived the Hebrews, the Romans, the Muslims, the Holocaust, and the 1960s. It has inspired some of the most beautiful works of art and music of all time; its monasteries housed early science and scholarly pursuits. It will survive progressivism/secular humanism, and certainly mindless stone-throwers like you.
No one is running or hiding from the abuse scandal. The vetting process for the clergy has changed dramatically. Do you plan on having kids (God forbid) in the public schools? Be careful -- they have a far greater chance of encountering sexual abuse there than in any house of worship.
Be an agnostic/atheist, whatever you choose, but don't cast aspersions on people who actually have a purpose, some of the great men and women who built this country, fought its wars with prayer books in their bunks; maybe some were ancestors of yours.
This post was edited on 5/13 9:31 AM by Halldan1
This post was edited on 5/13 10:32 AM by donnie_baseball
Wow, I wonder how many time that sentiments was expressed in similar situations, like Joe Pesci in Goodfellas at the Copa worrying that he is gonna go home with Nat King Cole. Sometimes we see things that make us uncomfortable. But the problem is us, not what we actually saw. Like Pesci thinking about the Swede who married Sammy Davis - which was such a mainstream mindset for the previous generation and still very common in my generation imo.
I was in the Village a few years ago with my wife. We both used to live there fwiw, so a gay guy hold hands was not shocking. But two guys walked down Hudson Street, talking, hand in hand. My mind raced to imagining the world these guys grew up in (I would say they were 65-70.) And Greenwich Village back then was one of the few places where they could live was they were and be happy. I remember making fun of a small group of gay guys who used to go to the beach in the town where I grew up. Hopefully, my kids were never that ignorant. We are making progress, on both the sexual and racial issues. But the finish line IMO is a long way off and I hope we keep travelling forward.
LoL mindless stone thrower... you serious? I think its pretty clear who the mindless stone throwers are (not saying you are). I'd love to know what you said before Halldan edited it lol it was probably magnificent.
Im going to go ahead and raise my kids to be good people because its the right thing to do. Dont need to be influenced by anything to do that.
Its outdated and the only thing its inspiring now is hatred towards innocent human beings. The Pope is smart, hes trying to push the church away from its archaic values... guess some people are slow to listen.
btw name one more "righteous" group thats been tied to more child abuse than the catholic church,... boy scouts? They sling out the same hate filled messages as some here on this board. . At least the church is trying to change.. err.. i mean theyre trying to pin responsibility on local jurisdictions for their priests actions . For a place claiming to be holy, it seems to be sinning at just about the same rate as the rest of the world.
He deleted me calling you ignorant, but no one needs me to say it. You provide copious evidence. It's not outdated, and it's not inspiring hatred. The leader of the Church is not pushing the Church away from "its values." That's just plain stupidity. I mentioned, too, the vetting process changes. But you're not interested in what anyone has to say.
You don't know jack about basketball, and you know less about the world. I can laugh at the former (and I don't get paid to know basketball either), but I will defend the Catholic Church from slander. The only thing you say, that has a shred of intelligence, is that they are sinning at the same rate of the rest of the world. Yes. The Church, like anything else, is made up of human beings. You use the words "holy" and "hate," but have no clue what either makes.
Why in the hell did you even go to Seton Hall? There wasn't some low-level state swimming program that you could have latched on to, some other University for you to criticize and give nothing back to?
We are now going way off on a tangent and the conversation is veering towards name calling and such depending on your POV.
There's no need for this type of conversation and if it continues the thread will be locked with the last comment being deleted.
Let's be civil everyone.
There's no need for this type of conversation and if it continues the thread will be locked with the last comment being deleted.
Let's be civil everyone.
The Michael Sam situation will be interesting to watch. He is a borderline NFL player. A situational pass rusher with essentially one more. The Rams may have put themselves in a somewhat difficult position (one which other teams may have been trying to avoid) should he not be able to make the roster based on talent. FWIW...they have said they would cut him in that instance.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/11/fisher-says-rams-wont-hesitate-to-cut-michael-sam-if-he-doesnt-earn-roster-spot/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/11/fisher-says-rams-wont-hesitate-to-cut-michael-sam-if-he-doesnt-earn-roster-spot/
Oh my gosh. The real outrage should not be about the pathetic souls who may be sinning at the same rate as another group, sexually confused men not able to handle the positions of power they found themselves in who molested young trusnig boys. The real outrage is how the hierarchy, for decades, systematically shipped these tortured molesters around the country, into unsuspecting parishes, so they could do it again, and again. And the constant rationalizing about this by so many in the trenches (not by this Pope as far as I know) turns my stomach too.
I think the Rams will treat Sam much more gently because of all the hype surrounding his sexual preference. If the guy can play and help the team he'll make it if not he'll be cut. In fact I think they'll give him more opportunities than a normal 7th round draft pick because they will be afraid of the potential backlash.
In many ways all the people that are overly sensitive to the homosexuality issue breed the resentment that they are supposedly trying to combat. By being so frantic about equality and freaking out over every little thing you polarize people that are in the middle to one side or the other. I wasn't pissy about this thread until people started attacking the Catholic Church. By doing that now I'm firmly against people like Shuathlete in this thread. The word hatred is thrown around so easily. If you want to see true hatred towards homosexuality go to Saudi Arabia and see how they treat homosexuals.
In many ways all the people that are overly sensitive to the homosexuality issue breed the resentment that they are supposedly trying to combat. By being so frantic about equality and freaking out over every little thing you polarize people that are in the middle to one side or the other. I wasn't pissy about this thread until people started attacking the Catholic Church. By doing that now I'm firmly against people like Shuathlete in this thread. The word hatred is thrown around so easily. If you want to see true hatred towards homosexuality go to Saudi Arabia and see how they treat homosexuals.
In terms of football, Michael Sam has the talent and while he may not make the 53-man roster, there is no reason why he shouldn't be on the Rams' practice squad. If the Rams can help build some of his tangible assets (strength, weight, speed in particular) while he's on the practice squad, then he can be a very valuable player (maybe not a star, but valuable for where he was picked) in the future.
What this thread shows is that there is an awful lot of intolerance on all sides, particularly those that either preach tolerance or are looking for tolerance.
It's like when someone says "Trust me", you know what they next say is B/S.
What it means is that people that disagree with homosexuality are being unfairly accused of hatred. Disagreement is not hatred. Treatment such as in Saudi Arabia is an example of hatred.
Does it make me an anti-semite that I disagree on who the true Savior is? Does that mean I hate jews because I believe in Jesus Christ as our savior?
Similar threads
