Some Night
- Thread starter SPK145
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Taking this point one step further, where does this opposition go from her? Who emerges? What do the Democrats look like? Maybe Bernie for now? But he’s 75 years old.
The energy that progressives showed with Bernie never got behind Hillary for justifiable reasons. Day 1 of that convention was so contentious; they were so put off by the DNC and Clinton's baggage. Justifiably so. However, their non-vote was also a defacto vote for Trump. That Obama Coalition/Bernie Supporters is still out there and it's yuuuuge.
What becomes of them? While Hillary’s politics were always center-left liberal to me and not truly "progressive" as we define it now, she did come around and meet Bernie halfway on many of those major domestic issues that were important to that group, even putting them into the platform:
1) College tuition
2) Income inequality/tax reform
3) Campaign finance reform
4) Dodd-Frank
5) Gun control
6) Minimum wage
7) Modifying, yet maintaining Obamacare
8) Climate change
9) Immigration
10) Criminal Justice reform
11) Trade agreements
Trump is the polar opposite on these issues except #3 and #11
Well Kanye West is the only one who announced so far...
Honestly though, I don't know where the party is gonna go from here.
If I had to make a guess, I would think Booker would be the candidate to emerge.
Four years ago, establishment candidate Mitt Romney was defeated and the the question was who would emerge as the next leader of the Republican party. Few people predicted Donald Trump. The moral is ya never know.....
Well Kanye West is the only one who announced so far...
Honestly though, I don't know where the party is gonna go from here.
If I had to make a guess, I would think Booker would be the candidate to emerge.
Asked my son who he wanted in 2020 and he said Booker. I thought he would say Warren.
It amazes me how Booker's name comes up. What did he do as mayor of the City of Newark? He was initially against the Prudential Center which came from Sharp James. He has done nothing in the Senate now granted he has not been there for a long time. I understand he presents well and he is intelligent. But, to me, he is all show and no substance.
The democrats ideally need a younger dynamic candidate that can draw from the Elizabeth Warren sanders crowd but not be dominated by it. There needs to be reform to Wall Street. Has anything been done to to regulate the derivative markets that almost took us down I 2007? There needs to be a balance to bring back the middle class blue color worker. And that does mean jobs.
I agree. Booker was a no show mayor of Newark. A publicity hound who abandoned the city (just as Christie abandoned the State). Maybe that is the way to go as it worked for Trump, but I would not support Corey Booker. I would prefer someone who at least had a record of accomplishment. The Dems will need a younger candidate who appeals to blue collar workers as well as the progressives. Probably someone who is not yet on the radar screen.
PS: For this year Warren would have been a better candidate than Hillary, but in four years she also will be approaching 70 years old. We will see who rises in both party's as I also think Trump will be a one term President for a number of reasons.
Tom K
I don't really disagree. He doesn't really have much to show as far as accomplishments. Can't really kill him for not fixing Newark, because he was not a magician... but he is the answer on the left for what Trump was on the right in the way he is able to connect with people and deliver a populist message. He is very intelligent and motivational when he speaks.
Add someone with the experience he lacks to the ticket and he would have a very good chance against Trump.
[QUOTE="Merge, post: 349882, member: 212"Can't really kill him for not fixing Newark, because he was not a magician...
.[/QUOTE]
No you can't kill him for not fixing Newark, but you can kill him for not trying. He was too busy seeking publicity for himself than doing the job he was hired for. Booker came in representing a new wave for the city. He gave the people of Newark hope. But it was all a charade. He was only here for press conferences or photo op's. it is questionable if he even lived in the city.
TK
.[/QUOTE]
No you can't kill him for not fixing Newark, but you can kill him for not trying. He was too busy seeking publicity for himself than doing the job he was hired for. Booker came in representing a new wave for the city. He gave the people of Newark hope. But it was all a charade. He was only here for press conferences or photo op's. it is questionable if he even lived in the city.
TK
As this election proved, being a complete bullshit artist is all one needs to be
That video from Ernie Johnson was cringeworthy and naive to me.
Anyway, Bernie at this early juncture has told some people he is still open to running. Considering the potentially desperate state we will be in after 4 years of Trump & a right wing legislature, I will back that as long as he's healthy enough.
Warren will be a great candidate as well. Her age will not be a hindrance.
Booker is a bit of a fake populist as he has taken more Wall Street money than almost any other Dem. No thanks, and how'd that work for Hillary. I could see his charisma, demeanor and oratory skills cancelling that albatross out though, unlike Hillary.
Good signs with some of the names floated for the DNC chair. Ellenson would be a perfect fit. Picking Howard Dean would show they still don't get it. Donna Brazille & everyone else with any decision making power needs to be fired after their terrible run this year. Clean up, go home.
Anyway, Bernie at this early juncture has told some people he is still open to running. Considering the potentially desperate state we will be in after 4 years of Trump & a right wing legislature, I will back that as long as he's healthy enough.
Warren will be a great candidate as well. Her age will not be a hindrance.
Booker is a bit of a fake populist as he has taken more Wall Street money than almost any other Dem. No thanks, and how'd that work for Hillary. I could see his charisma, demeanor and oratory skills cancelling that albatross out though, unlike Hillary.
Good signs with some of the names floated for the DNC chair. Ellenson would be a perfect fit. Picking Howard Dean would show they still don't get it. Donna Brazille & everyone else with any decision making power needs to be fired after their terrible run this year. Clean up, go home.
I'm convinced he's going to moderate. Too many people hate him. This is a man who loves to be loved and to win, he feeds off it. He cannot do that from the far right. That's why I'm bullish on a Trump presidency after reflecting on this campaign.
My theory is he had to run to the right in order to win the primary and knock out Clinton in the general by keeping those who supported him in the primary engaged and enthused about defeating her.
Ernie is, by all accounts, a great person. He hit the nail on the head.
Ellenson? I don't think he is the guy to be the DNC. A Muslim is not what you want to be the head of the Democratic Party at this time. The Deomcratic party will be pushed to the fringes. Second, I happen to agree with Dean that the chairman should be a full time job. Ellenson has work to do in Congress. Brazille was horrible and should never touch the levers of power agrian.
Got no problem with a Muslim heading the DNC. I hope you meant it in terms of optics and not personal issues. The key with him leading the DNC would make him public and vocal to appeal to the energized and diverse young voters that specifically did not come out this election
Agree with Snake...Booker is the Dem version of Christie. Talked a good game but more concerned with his image. Maybe we should follow up on that $100 million that Zuckerberg was going to donate to the Newark public schools...Booker and Christie jumped on that with Oprah for the publicity but haven't heard anything in the way of results.
Six months ago there was an article about the Republican Party funeral, but now they control the House, Senate, Presidency and a majority of Governors. Dems need to find new leadership. And the Reps need to realize they have a year and a half to get stuff done. Don't have much faith in either to be honest.
If anything, maybe Trump winning will awaken Millennials and GenXers and motivate some new blood.
Six months ago there was an article about the Republican Party funeral, but now they control the House, Senate, Presidency and a majority of Governors. Dems need to find new leadership. And the Reps need to realize they have a year and a half to get stuff done. Don't have much faith in either to be honest.
If anything, maybe Trump winning will awaken Millennials and GenXers and motivate some new blood.
It's the optics of it. There was an interesting article that I read in CNN this morning that touches on this issue a bit. Why did Hillary lose? Bill Clinton, the most astute politician in our lifetime, encouraged the campaign to talk to the white working class or blue collar workers and the issues that affect them. The campaign to their obvious detriment ignored him and concentrated to holding on to the Obama coalition voters.
If you are looking to win campaigns based on the youth and diversity, I think Dems will lose every election. The protests out on the streets make me sick. Burning the flag is a horrible for, of protest. Vandalism and violence is horrifying. Chants of "Not my President" is not only disrespectful to the office of the Presidency, it's just stupid. Where was this passion for Hillary for the election season? I wonder how many of them voted? How many voted for someone other than Hillary? I am thinking a small but significant amount that could have turned the election. Watching CNN during the election, they interviewed a young 20 year old Latina who exited the polls in Florida. She gleefully stated She voted for Jill Stein. In Florida where every vote counts!
If the Democratic Party wishes to forget the working man, they won't win another election. How did a Billionaire who screwed so many people by breaking contracts is the hero of the working man? People didn't care or have enough information about who Trump really is. People wanted to hear about jobs and work. Hillary didn't talk about that not nearly enough. Those voters are a huge block. They cannot be ignored nor should they.
Bill Maher has talked about liberals having issues that can infuriate the public. Two of which he has harped on was The matter of political incorrectness and Obama refusing to say radical Islam. And he is right.
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Johnson is in Allentown guy played high school football there. Funny, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if some Hollywood types tinker with the idea of running into thousand 2020. But once they realize they will need to work, that will squash any of those dreams.
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The issue if jobs going elsewhere was a key Dem issue for Kerry, and Obama. Hillary & the Dem campaign. let Trump steal the issue from her by concentrating their efforts on Hispanic and female votes and igoring those who have been hit hard by the loss of manufacturing jobs. The Dem party has thrived as the party of the blue collar worker for many years. The two times they lost that vote was to Reagan & now Trump. Cern is correct the Dem party can not win if they do not get this segment of the population. As Merge said Bill Clinton warned them of this possibility and he was ignored by the campaign.
Tom K
Tom K
Bingo. And Bill was shot down by the dopes in her campaign as they tried to make the fringe the mainstream.
There was an opportunity for her to pay respect to Obama for getting us through those dark days of the economy while also addressing the painfully and historically slow recovery. She didn't do that. She didn't focus on her own plans for growth and inspire that way, she rested on the relative improvement from the bottom that Obama oversaw. Huge tactical mistake, in hindsight, especially when both Trump and Bernie were hitting that precise point!
Trump and Sanders were touching on the same issues, just with different pathways. The Hillary group missed that entirely. The WI and MI Democratic primaries should've been a red flag to Team Hillary. Then you have her obvious issues as a weak candidate (and his) which reduced turnout to the lowest in 20 years.
I understand Maher is polarizing, but he is the type of liberal that liberals need in government. Why? Because he's tough and calls it like it is, unapologetic. Too many "liberals" have fallen into the soft PC trap and become so grey and nuanced that it's obnoxious and becomes more philosophical than pragmatic, which then becomes more condescending and fake than real. He has also assessed this entire election season perfectly from the start because of these reasons.
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Well then doesn't he betray those who voted for him on those far right platforms? That's usually doesn't jive, but we'll see.
Too early to tell for me on whether there will be any progress or just status quo with a bigger sideshow. This guy is in a different category. The Party of Trump. I don't think it's a given he can "made deals" with Congress. It's different than business. McConnell and the Republicans are already against the infrastructure bill he wants to propose (that they constantly rejected from Obama, too).
And while he won the election, he did not win the popular vote. The swing states he took were by razor thin margins, which can easily turn against him. His disapproval numbers are sky high, so he doesn't have the kind of public support that others have had entering the Oval Office. He basically wasn't Hillary, lol.
This is a good take. If the Democratic party wants to push even further to the left and continue pandering to the politically correct, social justice warriors, it will deepen its isolation from mainstream middle America. These are the people who get offended by every little thing, think every police shooting is the result of racism and cancel college classes because students are upset by the results of the election.
The Democratic playbook in 2016 is to divide people by race, religion, gender, (pick any identifier you want) and pander to them to try to get their votes. Look no further than a lot of left wing columnists talking about people living in "white bubbles" as the reason why Clinton lost. They actually think this is a good strategy! Insanity.
This will also have a negative effect on the country. The GOP has been pushed to the right over the years and the Democrats seem intent on accelerating their leftward push. That leaves little space for people like me who like to look at things with an open mind, play it down the middle and not subscribe to a rigid ideology. The best governance comes from the middle, which benefits all people.
There was an exchange last night on CNN suggesting that rural white America needs to spend some time in the cities to understand the complex social issues. No mention however that maybe the reverse should happen. Would be a real eye-opener for some of the urban elitists to see how working-class Americans view our political system.
You are aware the vast majority of people who live in cities are working class and not "elites," are you not?
As far as optics...you want Dems to just give in to the potential racism of the people who voted against you in the hopes that they might vote for you again. Not a winning strategy or morally correct. If he's the right man for the job, then so be it. And he is more than qualified based on his current status with the party & in the House. And there is that very popular viral video going around of him warning everyone well over a year ago to not dismiss Trump, and then he was promptly laughed at by all the clown pundits on the ABC News panel with him.
Why can't the party do both? This is not an either/or equation. You can galvanize the midwest worker vote & the youth/progressive wing/minority vote. Bernie proved that, and Bernie would have done that easily in the nat'l election. A few tokens of proof (ymmv of course): He beat Hillary in Michigan (which wasn't predicted in polls), New Hampshire, Wisconsin, Utah, Indiana
& potentially in Cali if these new tampering allegations ever get proven (unlikely). Also, a new post-election poll has Bernie beating Trump 56-41...close to the 11-12 point lead he held over Trump in polls during primary season. Some of those states I listed were pretty important last week eh? You see the margins that asshole beat Hillary by in some of them? You think maybe, just maybe he would taken them from Drumpf if he were the candidate? Of course he would have. Maybe I'm bias, but check this out. There was an enthusiasm there that just decided to stay home last week b/c people HATE Hillary (right or wrong):
Since when are these voters you describe above supposed to vote for Hillary just b/c they are passionately protesting? She did NOTHING to come for our vote. Just like you say she didn't come for the working class vote. Earn my vote, don't just expect it. Speak to the issues the progressive wing cares about, don't ignore us and then just point at Trump and say he sucks. Sure that's correct, but that argument as been proven time and time again to depress voting turnout and thereby hurt your chances. Trump won b/c 7 million less people voted for Hillary than Obama. That's HER fault. She didn't speak to the coalition you speak of or they would have not stayed home. Don't wag your finger at them, do what is needed to get them to vote for you. Make them feel like you REPRESENT them (what a concept eh?). Voter apathy is real & will only increase if people aren't excited FOR you, but just expected to vote for you b/c you're better than the other.
Focusing exclusively on the angry white swing state vote does not work for Dems. In that scenario you have a low turnout race to the bottom in terms of numbers. A Republican has a huge advantage. You have to get more people excited to vote for you. Look how poorly she did in Milwaukee, Philly, Detroit etc. compared to Obama. Sure, Hillary's policies outlined many things to benefit those voters. But the info wasn't clearly out there in front of dumb voters faces in ads & during the debates. Almost all of that boiled down to pointing the finger at Trump and saying he sucks. Yes that's true, and the policies are detailed on your website, but people are dumb and don't care therefore that's not gonna work. It sucks that it's that way, but it is.
The current DNC orchestrated this strategy & it failed miserably for her & Dem Congress, Governor & state legislature races this time around. A guy like Ellenson would go in a very different direction which seems clear to me is needed. Galvanize EVERY part of potential voters, not just working class Rust Belt types. Luckily, even a powerful establishment asshole like Schumer is backing Ellenson, so maybe there are some that recognize a diff. strategy is needed than only what you outline.
Pretty entertaining and summed up well by a Brit!
Language disclaimer. F bombs.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/GLG9g7BcjKs
Language disclaimer. F bombs.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/GLG9g7BcjKs
I was going to include that in my last way-too-long post but I decided against it for brevity. He almost 100% correct.
Are the same pollsters that had Bernie beating Trump, the same ones that had Hillary getting 330 electoral votes in a romp?
The reality is that Trump out-worked Hillary and out-smarted the RNC and DNC. He wasn't my choice but he beat 17 other candidates and it was because his message was simple: jobs and security. Voters looked past his multiple flaws just as HRC voters looked past all of her flaws. She made a HUGE mistake going all in on the "unfit to be President" strategy. She had no positive message, no enthusiasm and she was lazy...how do you not go to Wisconsin at all? Trump was planning how to win; she was planning for her coronation.
Have no idea what he will do, but it would be refreshing to see a President that is more concerned with doing what's right for America rather than what's right for the ideaology of their party.
In the meantime we can all enjoy the MSM trip over themselves....
The reality is that Trump out-worked Hillary and out-smarted the RNC and DNC. He wasn't my choice but he beat 17 other candidates and it was because his message was simple: jobs and security. Voters looked past his multiple flaws just as HRC voters looked past all of her flaws. She made a HUGE mistake going all in on the "unfit to be President" strategy. She had no positive message, no enthusiasm and she was lazy...how do you not go to Wisconsin at all? Trump was planning how to win; she was planning for her coronation.
Have no idea what he will do, but it would be refreshing to see a President that is more concerned with doing what's right for America rather than what's right for the ideaology of their party.
In the meantime we can all enjoy the MSM trip over themselves....
You see Bobby, we may be both Democrats but on different wings of the party. I come from a union blue collar background which was one of the major forces in the Democratic Party. Did anyone hear of organized labor in this election? It was stunningly quiet. Many labor people that I know shockingly went for Trump. The last time I heard that labor went for a republican was Reagan. I think you are right that Sanders would have beaten Trump. Trump couldn't have labeled him crooked or a liar. Just crazy.
I do think that some of the ideas of Sanders and Warren should be followed with regards to banking and Wall St. But you can't go too far left. The Party will lose so many voters. What people here may not realize is that I bet police officers went in huge numbers for Trump. Why? The Black Lives Movement. When Hillary invited Michael Brown's mother to the convention, it rubbed a lot of police officers the wrong way. That was a major mistake. Bill Clinton again summed that organization up correctly but the campaign freaked out over what he said. Here is the difference between Hillary and Bill. Bill honestly assesses an issue, whether it be Obamacare or BLM. Hillary was afraid to offend and her lack of being honest there dove tailed into Trump's portrayal that she was a lair and crooked. She ran scared of losing instead of trying to win.
I posted observations of our 1,000 employee base back in the summer (80% Union and 75% Hispanic; PA based). I was surprised by what I was hearing about their feelings about Trump. And this in historically strong Dem counties.
I think the media and party leadership needs to get off social media, stop relying on polls and just go out and listen. It's not that hard.
I think the media and party leadership needs to get off social media, stop relying on polls and just go out and listen. It's not that hard.
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anon_4htvdezyfe7k9
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anon_4htvdezyfe7k9
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Strong words. Didn't imply in any way that he might run and wasn't asked. Not that that means anything.
I was never a fan of bill, but every time I saw him on tv, I wished he would go home. Beyond any issues, the real thing in peoples' minds was change and bill reinforced what trump was saying - she has been in power forever and done nothing.
CERN I'm not unfamiliar with where you're coming from. My dad was a steamfitter (local 638!!) & your stereotypical Dem as such. He went door to door for local Dems.
She def. pissed off the people you're mentioning. There are multiple reasons she did so poorly. Union support was a part of her campaign like any Dem, but it was not at the forefront bc of what we both noted was her focus. Needed to highlight that more than just "I'm not him" to the casual voter who isn't doing research on your website.
She def. pissed off the people you're mentioning. There are multiple reasons she did so poorly. Union support was a part of her campaign like any Dem, but it was not at the forefront bc of what we both noted was her focus. Needed to highlight that more than just "I'm not him" to the casual voter who isn't doing research on your website.
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