State of the Union After 3 Games

[LeftCoastPirates]

Prospects for non-conference play:
- This is trending towards a 4-7 record
- When the competition steps up a level the Hall could be the underdog in all 5 of those games. In the MTE only Drake is ranked lower in Ken Pom by 3 spots.

Prospects for BE play:
- This could be a 4-16 type season. So far feels like the bottom tier could be Nova / Butler / DePaul / Gtown / SHU. Our play easily puts at the bottom of that list. So splitting with those 4 teams seems generous.

Roster Construction:
- You get what you pay for.
Sha is trying to compete with major power house programs like UConn, Marquette, and Creighton. Finishing 4th wasn’t even good enough last year.
So he is trying to catch lightning in a bottle with high upside guys based on measurables and potential.
Guess what is most likely to happen…you are going to end up missing on many of them. People wanted the Romaro Gill / Jaden Bediako stories to be the norm. They are the exception. Wusu tested the portal and no one wanted him. Dual was still available after the NBA combine invite…hmm. Middleton shot under 35% from two point range last year and it’s a shock he can’t score beyond spotting up for 3? Aligbe was an inefficient bench player for a team that finished 11th in the ACC. Are we surprised he is shooting 25% when asked to play a larger role? Toumi is struggling to stay out of foul trouble now, what happens in the BE.
I can go on and on.

So maybe Sha could have recruited more well rounded ball players that would have won these first three games, but they would have been ill equipped to compete in the rigors of a 20 game BE season.

The combination of NIL and the Portal rule changes are a death blow for Seton Hall.

Take a deep breath and realize this could be the norm unless the landscape of college athletics greatly changes. But you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. So I don’t know what is next for the program.

 

[HallGuy23]

Gonna need something in the near future of leagues bring constructed by average NIL funds and having mandatory realignment every 5 years.

Current rivalry’s and geographic location be damned

 

[Hall Is Life]

Yea I can’t get over the fact that our measly NIL budget most certainly dwarfs Fordham’s and Hofstra’s budgets. Correct me if I’m wrong. I have no idea.

Sha doesn’t get a pass from me on this one. He’s done a bad job with this group to this point. Will we beat Wagner on Saturday??

 

[SHUSA]

Prospects for non-conference play:
- This is trending towards a 4-7 record
- When the competition steps up a level the Hall could be the underdog in all 5 of those games. In the MTE only Drake is ranked lower in Ken Pom by 3 spots.

Prospects for BE play:
- This could be a 4-16 type season. So far feels like the bottom tier could be Nova / Butler / DePaul / Gtown / SHU. Our play easily puts at the bottom of that list. So splitting with those 4 teams seems generous.

Roster Construction:
- You get what you pay for.
Sha is trying to compete with major power house programs like UConn, Marquette, and Creighton. Finishing 4th wasn’t even good enough last year.
So he is trying to catch lightning in a bottle with high upside guys based on measurables and potential.
Guess what is most likely to happen…you are going to end up missing on many of them. People wanted the Romaro Gill / Jaden Bediako stories to be the norm. They are the exception. Wusu tested the portal and no one wanted him. Dual was still available after the NBA combine invite…hmm. Middleton shot under 35% from two point range last year and it’s a shock he can’t score beyond spotting up for 3? Aligbe was an inefficient bench player for a team that finished 11th in the ACC. Are we surprised he is shooting 25% when asked to play a larger role? Toumi is struggling to stay out of foul trouble now, what happens in the BE.
I can go on and on.

So maybe Sha could have recruited more well rounded ball players that would have won these first three games, but they would have been ill equipped to compete in the rigors of a 20 game BE season.

The combination of NIL and the Portal rule changes are a death blow for Seton Hall.

Take a deep breath and realize this could be the norm unless the landscape of college athletics greatly changes. But you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. So I don’t know what is next for the program.

dang a basically said this in another thread. going boom or bust with these type of guys and there's a lot of bust to be had

 

[LeftCoastPirates]

Yea I can’t get over the fact that our measly NIL budget most certainly dwarfs Fordham’s and Hofstra’s budgets. Correct me if I’m wrong. I have no idea.

Sha doesn’t get a pass from me on this one. He’s done a bad job with this group to this point. Will we beat Wagner on Saturday??

But as I was telling Tom during the game, “who cares about the individual game result at this point.”

Say we found a way to win the first three games. The eye test tells me a completely different story.

A bunch of young athletic individuals who need much more seasoning and development in their freshman / sophomore seasons to learn how to play at the collegiate level. All of them with zero or minimal track records. (Middleton, Dual, Coleman, Tubek, Yalden)

A bunch of upperclassmen who we knew what they were prior to being here and are asking them to take a step up in competition or their roles. (Toumi, Okorofor, Harmon, Aligbe, and Wusu)

There have been only two bright spots so far.

Jenkins (5th year senior) has played to his potential vs mid / low major competition which he is accustomed to.

Godswill has shown he belongs on the court as a freshman.

So I don’t care if this team was 3-0. They don’t have the skills to score the basketball at this level. Poor handling, poor 3 point shooting, poor free throw shooting, can’t beat players off the dribble, and can’t finish at the rim. Sha can draw up all the plays he wants. Need to be able to execute.

 

[Piratz]

It’s just all bad. The team is 342nd in 2PT%, 332nd in FTA for a team 43rd in FTA:FGA. We’re talking near worst-in-the-country bad here right now. We haven’t broke 57 points in a game. We scored 48 against Hofstra. 48!! We have a guy in Toumi that is 1/8 from the FT line the past 2 games, both 1-pt losses. He’s a 24 year old 5th year Senior.

I have seen middle school practices run better sets than this mess. What are we doing? Every possession is guys roaming around the arc then panicking. We dribble into trouble. Our shot selection is atrocious. It’s by far the worst offensive basketball I’ve ever seen at The Hall bc there’s no flow or sane movement, actual plays, or point guard. I have no idea what the situation is with Dual and Harmon.

 

[chickenbox]

Sha can draw up all the plays he wants. Need to be able to execute.

Need to have plays drawn up to execute to be able to execute them. Where are they?

 

[LeftCoastPirates]

Need to have plays drawn up to execute to be able to execute them.

Last time I checked, he drew up an inbounds play while up 1 to beat the pressure only to have our guys throw it away on a 3 on 1 to give Fordham the ball back when the right play is to bleed the clock dry and get fouled.

 

[chickenbox]

Last time I checked, he drew up an inbounds play while up 1 to beat the pressure only to have our guys throw it away on a 3 on 1 to give Fordham the ball back when the right play is to bleed the clock dry and get fouled.

One play every other game. Swell!

 

[LBP43]

Sha Sounds Off: Hofstra

On the final play of the game: “We called a play that’s one of our quick hitters. We were trying to get Dylan going downhill, Chaunce was co...

dalydoseofhoops.blogspot.com

 

[newshu1]

I understand the NIL Cry babies, but are you telling me we need a war chest to defeat Fordham and Hofstra?

 

[JCB11]

Our approach to team construction might have to change to that of a mid-major scouting and developing guys for programs with resources to poach. Plus one or two guys that get all our limited NIL each year.

 

[CaptBob]

Wagner player St Johns tough until late in the game. How many points will we be getting in that game? Wagner by 2 or more?

 

[Section112]

Sha and SHU have done an awful job of getting out in front of NIL and using opportunities to raise money and market the program more. This is the result. Can we compete in this environment? I’m not sure we can with our current coach and leaders. NIL is all that matters right now.

 

[The Crows Nest]

I understand the NIL Cry babies, but are you telling me we need a war chest to defeat Fordham and Hofstra?

And sounds like we should be prepared to lose to Wagner this weekend…from his comments.

I mean…c’mon…if our mid majors are supposed to scare us, then we have no business in a league like the Big East.

Let’s move down a level, or 2, and play competition more suited to us then.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

Prospects for non-conference play:
- This is trending towards a 4-7 record
- When the competition steps up a level the Hall could be the underdog in all 5 of those games. In the MTE only Drake is ranked lower in Ken Pom by 3 spots.

Prospects for BE play:
- This could be a 4-16 type season. So far feels like the bottom tier could be Nova / Butler / DePaul / Gtown / SHU. Our play easily puts at the bottom of that list. So splitting with those 4 teams seems generous.

Roster Construction:
- You get what you pay for.
Sha is trying to compete with major power house programs like UConn, Marquette, and Creighton. Finishing 4th wasn’t even good enough last year.
So he is trying to catch lightning in a bottle with high upside guys based on measurables and potential.
Guess what is most likely to happen…you are going to end up missing on many of them. People wanted the Romaro Gill / Jaden Bediako stories to be the norm. They are the exception. Wusu tested the portal and no one wanted him. Dual was still available after the NBA combine invite…hmm. Middleton shot under 35% from two point range last year and it’s a shock he can’t score beyond spotting up for 3? Aligbe was an inefficient bench player for a team that finished 11th in the ACC. Are we surprised he is shooting 25% when asked to play a larger role? Toumi is struggling to stay out of foul trouble now, what happens in the BE.
I can go on and on.

So maybe Sha could have recruited more well rounded ball players that would have won these first three games, but they would have been ill equipped to compete in the rigors of a 20 game BE season.

The combination of NIL and the Portal rule changes are a death blow for Seton Hall.

Take a deep breath and realize this could be the norm unless the landscape of college athletics greatly changes. But you can’t put the genie back in the bottle. So I don’t know what is next for the program.

It is hard though with the new way of NIL, this school just won't be competitive for one year program changers

 

[Medugorje]

Cannot blame the NIL for the garbage we are putting on the court. Sha chose these players and we have yet to score 60 points in a game which is downright horrible. Our NIL dwarfs the likes of Fordham, Hofsta, Wagner, and Monmouth. Very sad display for a coach making the big bucks.

 

[chickenbox]

Sha Sounds Off: Hofstra

On the final play of the game: “We called a play that’s one of our quick hitters. We were trying to get Dylan going downhill, Chaunce was co...

dalydoseofhoops.blogspot.com

I don’t know, Jerry.
And I don’t know
I don’t know.
I don’t know, Jerry, to tell you the truth.
I don’t know what’s going on right now.
I don’t know, Jerry.

Sounds like there are a lot of things he doesn't know.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

I remember when the state of the program was bad we couldn’t get to the second week of the tournament.

 

[SHUSA]

I remember when the state of the program was bad we couldn’t get to the second week of the tournament.

you dont remember the canarais years ?

and the problem about the second weekend was it was clear we weren't ever making it. our tournament record was plain bad.

sha has taken a team who has looked as bad as this team to the elite 8. with the same kind of losses. elite 8.

 

[JoePeppitone2012]

Cannot blame the NIL for the garbage we are putting on the court. Sha chose these players and we have yet to score 60 points in a game which is downright horrible. Our NIL dwarfs the likes of Fordham, Hofsta, Wagner, and Monmouth. Very sad display for a coach making the big bucks.

I totally agree with this ! You’re SUPPOSED to be a high major program. If you can’t beat those guys you have completely lost it

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

you dont remember the canarais years ?

Yes we weren’t 1-2 vs mid majors with those guys. We reached 60 points in the first 3 games.

But I’m not sure why that question matters. We’re long past those days right?

 

[SHUSA]

I understand the NIL Cry babies, but are you telling me we need a war chest to defeat Fordham and Hofstra?

yes. i think he's resorting to getting these has been boom or bust players that were once on top of talent sheets. but they mostly end up being busts in the worst way. exposed and completley uncoachable.

sha will have to adjust who he picks for this team. turns out trying to get upside is working out worse than a roster of mid major guys.

 

[SHUSA]

Yes we weren’t 1-2 vs mid majors with those guys. We reached 60 points in the first 3 games.

But I’m not sure why that question matters. We’re long past those days right?

your right, we lost 3. mercer, fdu and spu.

so....

 

[Gohall129]

Sha has an issue with roster building. Our numbnuts AD needs to fire one of the assistants at the end of the year and replace that spot with a GM to handle money and recruiting because Sha is proving that he can’t handle it

Also- Sha is acting like he just met these guys last week and is figuring it out. Including the scrimmages weee 5 games in and he has no answers, no changes?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

your right, we lost 3. mercer, fdu and spu.

so....

That team also got to the big east semifinals and beat a bunch of power power conference teams in the non conference. I’m hoping we go into conference play with 4 non conference wins.

 

[Pirate Russ]

I think Sha deserves our patience here. The first 3 games have been awful....virtually unwatchable. Anyway, this message board had similar comments after we lost to Rutgers last year. While i don't expect any turnaround like last year, i am confident the team will get better. With that said, i think Sha will need to figure out a better way to dole out NIL money. Do you spend big on a few alphas, and then use the rest of the money on other players? He wants to play 10 guys, but we don't have enough NIL to get real difference makers. We can only hope the NIL situation gets better, but I am afraid it will be the death of us.

 

[Piratz]

I don’t think this roster is as bad as we’ve seen so far lol. They are not amongst the worst in the country in key spots from tempo to turnovers to shooting bc of talent imo. They’re not great but shouldn’t be THIS inept. It’ll get better bc it can’t get worse. But they do look chaotic which is making it this bad.

Sha’s style is like being thrown into a washing machine for many. Is that what’s going on with Dual and Harmon? Like when he brought Kadary off the bench in Year 1? They need to play minutes and get acclimated. The guard situation is a disaster right now. Why we’re wasting time with Addae-Wusu at PG idk but it starts there. We’re 338th in possession time and 318th in turnovers rate

 

[Seton75]

I think Sha deserves our patience here. The first 3 games have been awful....virtually unwatchable. Anyway, this message board had similar comments after we lost to Rutgers last year. While i don't expect any turnaround like last year, i am confident the team will get better. With that said, i think Sha will need to figure out a better way to dole out NIL money. Do you spend big on a few alphas, and then use the rest of the money on other players? He wants to play 10 guys, but we don't have enough NIL to get real difference makers. We can only hope the NIL situation gets better, but I am afraid it will be the death of us.

I am with Sha. But this offense is so discombobulated. I have a hard time laying it all off on the players.

 

[Bud Boomer]

I think Sha deserves our patience here. The first 3 games have been awful....virtually unwatchable. Anyway, this message board had similar comments after we lost to Rutgers last year. While i don't expect any turnaround like last year, i am confident the team will get better. With that said, i think Sha will need to figure out a better way to dole out NIL money. Do you spend big on a few alphas, and then use the rest of the money on other players? He wants to play 10 guys, but we don't have enough NIL to get real difference makers. We can only hope the NIL situation gets better, but I am afraid it will be the death of us.

He deserves patience, but you can’t stack losses against bad teams. All the games matter. Even if Holloway manages to get the season turned around, we already have one and maybe two big black marks on the resume.

 

[Section112]

These two losses are going to be very difficult to recover from. At least in prior years we looked bad in the OOC games but we won the games we were supposed to win. They all matter now and Sha doesn't seem to understand that or is unwilling to change.

 

[Hall Is Life]

These two losses are going to be very difficult to recover from. At least in prior years we looked bad in the OOC games but we won the games we were supposed to win. They all matter now and Sha doesn't seem to understand that or is unwilling to change.

It’s over early. Sha will have to pull off a Patrick Ewing led Georgetown miracle at The Garden in March.

 

[jack 1970]

I'm afraid we'll look back in a number of years and realize the NIL is the demise of major college football and basketball.The sports are becoming mini professional leagues.I agree that eventually the conferences will need to be realigned on size of NIL budgets.Likely SHU will be in a Northeastern schools mid major type conference or back to pre Big East days.Won't be the end of the world.

 

[batts]

Sha is trying to develop a Team that can compete against Big East Teams with a lack of high level talent. His model appears to be based on his Team going 8 to 10 deep so that we will have fresh legs on defense during the Big East schedule. Playing this number players in our first few games against weaker opponents is bound to result in the lack of consistancy, particularly on offense. Our opponents thus far had the advantage of having a core group of players with defined roles as opposed to Sha who is trying to develop a Team of 8 to 10 deep. Yes, that's an excuse but Sha is trying to develop a Team that can better compete during the long haul. That's the optomistic part of my post.

Now the negative part: Unless we can find wealthy benefactors to fund NIL monies, our prior level of success in Men's basketball cannot be sustained and it's only going to get worse. We are going to be eclipsed by Power 5 Teams with mega budgets.

 

[Halldan1]

I'm afraid we'll look back in a number of years and realize the NIL is the demise of major college football and basketball.The sports are becoming mini professional leagues.I agree that eventually the conferences will need to be realigned on size of NIL budgets.Likely SHU will be in a Northeastern schools mid major type conference or back to pre Big East days.Won't be the end of the world.

The no sitout year is even worse. There is no yearly free agency in any major sport in this country.

 

[Pirate Russ]

He deserves patience, but you can’t stack losses against bad teams. All the games matter. Even if Holloway manages to get the season turned around, we already have one and maybe two big black marks on the resume.

Ok - If the goal of the season is to make the tournament, the season is over. It would take a miracle to recover from these losses. We had really no bad losses last year, and had wins over UCONN and Marquette and did not make the tournament along with going 13-7 in Big East.

 

[Rockaway]

Do you want to go down to mid major league or be last or next to last in conference every year.I say go down a level so you hsve chance to be competitive in every game.UCONN,Creighton,Marquette,Xavier etc. beat us by 20 every year and you can get any seat you want at the Rock.Got to organize a league with all teams n same boat as us not competitive to play with the bug boys in NILcurrently 5 teams in BE in top 25 potentially 10 predictable in conference losses so i would say our realistic conference wins is 4/5.some posters saying anybody blaming NIL is a cry baby.We just lost our 2 top players to NIL so it is reality we can’t hope or explain away.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

Ok - If the goal of the season is to make the tournament, the season is over. It would take a miracle to recover from these losses. We had really no bad losses last year, and had wins over UCONN and Marquette and did not make the tournament along with going 13-7 in Big East.

The verdict on the season to at large value was just that season alone

 

[NYC Pirate]

I'm just not buying into the NIL for our play against the soft part of the OCC schedule. I will agree that it's not going to be a fair fight against UConn, Creighton and the Marquette's of the world. So i n that case yes the NIL is the reasonable argument.
That wasn't exactly an intimidating environment on Long Island.

The coaching staff did a horrendous job. The game focus is terrible, the basketball IQ was awful, ball handling below average, three point shooting abysmal, free throw shooting at crunch tine more than alarming. Having said that if the coach did not force the second unit to get their minutes, it should have been a win, Some of that was true against Fordham. Even the defense did not get in done in vital moments. This looks like a 20 loss team at this point.

 

[jack 1970]

The no sitout year is even worse. There is no yearly free agency in any major sport in this country.

Like with many other things the pendulum has swung too far in the direction marked crazytown.In time,modifications/corrections will be made but a lot of damage done in the meantime.