The best backcourts in the Big East

[Halldan1]

Which team has the best backcourt (including subs) in the league?

Nova, with Brunson, Booth & DiVincenzo leading the way?

Seton Hall, with Carrington, Powell, Cale & Walker in the rotation?

Xavier with Goodin, Macura, & Bluiett possibly starting?

Creighton with Foster, Joseph & Thomas?

St John's with young studs Ponds, Levitt & Simon?

Maybe another group?

 

[Halldan1]

I'll go top three as I think the answer is a three team race

1 Villanova mainly because of Brunson. He's a stud and IMO the best guard in the league.

2. SHU is right there with Nova. The difference is clearly at the PG position where 2nd team All Big East 2G Carrington is being switched to the point this season.

3. The SJU group might be the most talented. But they include 2 players with only one year under their belts and a 5 star transfer who has never played one minute with his teammates yet.

 

[HallBall10]

Nova #1
Don't sleep on Kyron, ashton Langford, and drew Edwards.
I don't consider blueitt in the backcourt but they bring in a ton of great freshman.
Don't sleep on Creighton either Foster, Thomas, Kaleb Jospeh, 2 freshman

I don't think we have a top 3 backcourt maybe around 5th.

 

[Halldan1]

Yes, Bluiett is more SF than guard but he can play the 2 if X wants to go big.

There are going to be players on all teams that can play multiple positions so I will take liberties when listing them for comparison purposes on this thread and the ones next week for forwards and then centers.

 

[HallBall10]

We obviously have the best front court. If our backcourt is right there with Nova (as Dan suggests) as the best in the conference then we're the reg season champs and a top 2 seed in the tournament.

KC has a lot to prove as one of the best pgs and MP has a lot to prove as one of the best sg's and our freshman have a lot to prove before we start to suggest their right there with Nova.

 

[Halldan1]

Two players are proven in Powell and Carrington. Cale is a stud so I am going to project major minutes for him. Walker is a nice 4th guard who IMO will give us a solid 10 minutes or so off the bench. That's 4 Big East players that match up well with the opposition including a 2nd team all B E Player and one of the best rookie guards in the league last season.

I like our backcourt a lot as it gives the team a ton of offensive firepower. My only reservation being Carrington's switch to the point. That will be critical if we are going to have one of the best backcourts in the league.

It won't happen overnight but I think it will by conference play.

 

[HallBall10]

We have 4 talents. Probably the best 3 play their best at SG.
If you want to talk talent than yes regardless of position and fit and combined results on the court then we're up there.
But last year, KC and MP didn't play better than MJ and KC.

Your reservation is a big one in terms of specifically talking about which backcourt tandems are the best.

 

[Pirates56]

Which team has the best backcourt (including subs) in the league?

Nova, with Brunson, Booth & DiVincenzo leading the way?

Seton Hall, with Carrington, Powell, Cale & Walker in the rotation?

Xavier with Goodin, Macura, & Bluiett possibly starting?

Creighton with Foster, Joseph & Thomas?

St John's with young studs Ponds, Levitt & Simon?

Maybe another group?

1) Xavier - Bluiett is going to be a problem this year and Macura is the definition of a gamer.

2) Nova - Brunson is a legit all american and I expect Divencenzo to take a big jump.

3) St Johns - The talent will show even more this year with some experience now.

4) The Hall - Slight deduction for our Starting PG essentially playing out of position. Powell will take a step forward. Cale, Walker, or both could be this year's Powell.

5) Creighton - Talented but thats the Big East this year.

Wild Card - None of them have Angel forcing double teams but us.

 

[Halldan1]

I agree. I do not like Carrington at the point and have said that for years, so I know I am going out on a limb. But being able to talk to him in the media since his senior year in HS I know he is a very prideful young man and with a little PG under his belt last season and knowing how important he will be to the Pirates this season (IMO our most important player) I think with the guidance of two former Big East points in Willard and Holloway he will eventually become what we need him to be.

It's a leap of faith I know. But just as it was with Whitehead I think the same thing is going to happen with Deeno. The light will eventually go on and he'll learn to excel at the 1.

Regardless, we will have three strong offensive threats in Cale, Carrington and Powell in the backcourt, all of whom can score 20 points on any given night. That's a ton of firepower and I believe it will help lead the Hall to the second best record in the league.

 

[Johnny Biggs]

Agree with HallBall here. Too many question marks with the Hall to suggest their backcourt is "right there with Nova's" at this time.

 

[mjs429]

1. Nova
2. SJ
3. Hall

 

[Halldan1]

Regarding Carrington....I absolutely agree he will be a work in progress at the point early on. But I remember talking to Holloway during the preseason in Whitehead's soph year at a Booster Club event. He, PirateSal and I were seated at a table and he said talking about both the team and Whitehead..."don't judge us at the beginning of the season but watch where we are in late January" he said. Sha had a ton of confidence in the team and in his ability to mold Whitehead into a premier PG. He'll do the same with Carrington. It will just take time.

 

[jim34238]

I hope KC is working very hard this summer at being a quality PG, because we can't wait until January this year with our tough non conference schedule. We will be killed by some of the teams we are playing.

 

[Halldan1]

It's a work in progress but that doesn't mean the second team all league player is going to hurt the Hall while he adapts to the PG position. SHU has two starting guards that can easily score 20 points on a given night. When you add in the fact that the same can be said of two other starters, Desi and Angel that's an awful lot of fire power.

That plus you can now play Ish a lot more minutes because you don't need points from his position but you will need his D and rebounding acumen.

Look, I understand the hesitation from many SHU fans about Deeno playing the point and I agree with them. But while he adapts to that position don't forget the many other things he brings to the court.

 

[Shuathelete]

Id go

Nova
SJU
SHU

Cale looks like more of a SF to me. I think the SJU is just so goddamn talented.

Powell is probably the sleeper in making us #2 or even #1. Powell has been MASSIVELY overlooked this off season with all of the action going on. The amount of work and improvement he put in from HS > SHU was insane. Doing that again my god he could be amazing. You know what screw it i say Powell blows up and were #1. DEAL WITH IT.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

It's a work in progress but that doesn't mean the second team all league player is going to hurt the Hall while he adapts to the PG position. SHU has two starting guards that can easily score 20 points on a given night. When you add in the fact that the same can be said of two other starters, Desi and Angel that's an awful lot of fire power.

That plus you can now play Ish a lot more minutes because you don't need points from his position but you will need his D and rebounding acumen.

Look, I understand the hesitation from many SHU fans about Deeno playing the point and I agree with them. But while he adapts to that position don't forget the many other things he brings to the court.

Dan, once KC brings the ball up, do you think we can play through Angel and Desi, which will allow Deeno to move without the ball and look to score which is more his style?

 

[Halldan1]

In the long run SJU might be the best by season's end. They have 3 absolute studs and it wouldn't surprise me to see all three on the court a lot at the same time.

But for now I like Nova's Brunson soooooo much (watch out for DiVincenzo too) and I like our depth.

Regarding Cale, I agree and think he'll back up both the 2 & the 3.

 

[Halldan1]

Dan, once KC brings the ball up, do you think we can play through Angel and Desi, which will allow Deeno to move without the ball and look to score which is more his style?

I know fans hate the words lead guard but that's what Whitehead was for us two years ago and that's what Carrington will be for us now. The difference being that IW was more talented than Deeno so he could do more for himself late in the shot clock.

That's something Carrington must learn. Don't play hero ball. You have some awfully talented player on the court with you so use them as an option as the clock runs down.

It will take time but Sha and Willard are great teachers and backcourt mentors so I am confident as the season progresses Carrington will become more comfortable as our PG just as Whitehead did.

 

[ironlung75]

PG's are quarterbacks. So I have some concern if our best wide receiver is playing quarterback. Bad metaphor but somewhat true. I think it is incumbent on us to get ball movement this year working into the middle as we never have before. With Angel, Ish, Mike and Mamu we have some great weapons to not only score but to get the board and the put back which is so much of our game. Also Desi is again the X factor. In fact Angel may not have to lead the nation this year in boards if our ball movement and shooting percentages just increase slightly, we only need a few percentage points to move up in those areas to increase our offense which should be our biggest improvement area ( with maybe or hopefully increase in FT%)

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

It will take time but Sha and Willard are great teachers and backcourt mentors so I am confident as the season progresses Carrington will become more comfortable as our PG just as Whitehead did.

Couldn't agree more. I'm just curious of the approach, go with the system from day 1 or run something that might be more in his comfort zone until he gets the system.

 

[Halldan1]

Something SHU seems to seldom do but in the rare occasions when it happens they play their best offensive BB. What is that?

Player and ball movement. And I don't mean three guys crossing at the top of the key.

Watch Nova. Their player and ball movement is second to none. We are as talented as they are with the ball. But do we play as intelligently as they do?

And I say that not as a knock on the Hall but as a compliment to Jay Wight and Nova.

Nova just doesn't make the extra pass they sometimes make the second extra one too leading to so many high quality shots.

 

[SPK145]

I'd go:

1) Villanova
2) St. John's
3) Seton Hall
3) Marquette
3) Xavier
3) Providence
3) Creighton

(It really is that close for third.)

 

[dehere23]

Nova to me is the clear #1 because Brunson is the best guard in the conference and you know that Booth and DD will make a leap will more time and experience. Jay's kids always do.

I put St. John's second, and here's why. I love Powell, but if you put either Ponds or Lovett on last year's Hall team with a veteran playmaker like Deanno, and a veteran front line, they would be been even better than they were. Those two kids were asked to do everything for the Johnnies last year with no interior play to speak of, and they were really good. Add Simon - a former 5 star to the mix - and I think they come out #2.

Number 3 is real close. You know Goodwin is going to develop under Xavier. I love our guys, though Deanno's transition to full time PG worries me to an extent. Marquette with Rousey and Howard are very solid. Cartwright may be the second best pure point in the league after Brunson and Cooley's kids get better. Will be fun.

I'd go:

1) Villanova
2) St. John's
3) Seton Hall
3) Marquette
3) Xavier
3) Providence
3) Creighton

(It really is that close for third.)

 

[hallgrad80]

I'd go:

1) Villanova
2) St. John's
3) Seton Hall
3) Marquette
3) Xavier
3) Providence
3) Creighton

(It really is that close for third.)

I agree with Steve that it really is that close for 3rd and that's where SH belongs. Where we disagree is that I have SJU at number 1 and Nova at number 2. I believe that Ponds and LoVett are both looking to leave after this year and will have monster years. Add in a transfer like Simon who has college experience under his belt and a year to practice with the team in his sit out year gives them the edge over Nova.

 

[SOBO1]

St John's has the best starting backcourt in the league in my opinion.

 

[shu09]

I don't get the St. John's love. I think Villanova is clearly #1 and we're clearly #2.

 

[dcPirate]

We obviously have the best front court.

I'm sure that will be Dan's question for the board next week but I wouldn't say it's "obvious". Delgado is the best big man in the Conference and maybe in the Country, but the 4 spot (imo) holds The Hall back from being a shoe in for best in the league. Desi and Angel no doubt have The Hall right there though.

My back court ranks are:
St Johns
Nova
Xav/Hall

Brunson is so good, but Ponds and LoVett are only going to get better and were off the charts last year (imo).

 

[mjs429]

@shu09 Ponds should have won ROY last year. Him & Lovett both made All BE rookie team while Powell did not. We have a ? Mark at pg although KC is a star

 

[halltheway]

St. John's depends on their back court to score and to win..that's why they stand out so much..not saying they are not good but perception is half the battle.
Nova
Hall
3a St. Johns
3b Xavier
3c Marquette
4a Prov.
4b Creighton
So close...we are the BIG EAST

 

[Seton75]

I'd go:

1) Villanova
2) St. John's
3) Seton Hall
3) Marquette
3) Xavier
3) Providence
3) Creighton

(It really is that close for third.)

Finally, a mention of Marquette. I love Marcus Howard.

 

[Halldan1]

SJU's backcourt is incredibly talented. But last year they were just as likely to shoot their team out of a game as in one.

If they mature, and that's not a given, as I noted above they are clearly the most physically gifted group. But I have to see that maturity before I rank them at the top and for now I'll stay with third.

 

[dehere23]

And Rousey can really score and play make

Finally, a mention of Marquette. I love Marcus Howard.

 

[SOBO1]

I read the Marcus Howard was born in Morristown. He would have dominated the iron hills conference ;-)

 

[dehere23]

Agreed. And they were weak defensively. From what I recall of Simon as a prep he should be a good defender.

SJU's backcourt is incredibly talented. But last year they were just as likely to shoot their team out of a game as in one.

If they mature, and that's not a given, as I noted above they are clearly the most physically gifted group. But I have to see that maturity before I rank them at the top and for now I'll stay with third.

 

[dehere23]

I can't put anyone behind Nova

I'm sure that will be Dan's question for the board next week but I wouldn't say it's "obvious". Delgado is the best big man in the Conference and maybe in the Country, but the 4 spot (imo) holds The Hall back from being a shoe in for best in the league. Desi and Angel no doubt have The Hall right there though.

My back court ranks are:
St Johns
Nova
Xav/Hall

Brunson is so good, but Ponds and LoVett are only going to get better and were off the charts last year (imo).

 

[IronKaz1]

It's a work in progress but that doesn't mean the second team all league player is going to hurt the Hall while he adapts to the PG position. SHU has two starting guards that can easily score 20 points on a given night. When you add in the fact that the same can be said of two other starters, Desi and Angel that's an awful lot of fire power.

That plus you can now play Ish a lot more minutes because you don't need points from his position but you will need his D and rebounding acumen.

Look, I understand the hesitation from many SHU fans about Deeno playing the point and I agree with them. But while he adapts to that position don't forget the many other things he brings to the court.

Dan, I hear you, but also I do not want Powell on the bench anymore, he earned his spot, KC will be fine I think, Isiaah learned so can KC. The KC Powell Desi Ish Angel lineup is like you said full of firepower and when the 2nd unit enters Cale Walker Sandro and Nzei who has a underated game down low will be tough vs opposition 2nd units

 

[bpm1978]

No one has mentioned Gordon. Kids get the flu (and God forbid) turn ankles. Having a second year guard, that came out as a top 125, to play in a pinch has to be good depth.

 

[IronKaz1]

I guess its because EG is unknown for us right now we did not see him in action enough, but the potential is def. there

 

[Fishjam]

Nova is clear #1 as they have a true PG who is arguably the best in the country. DiVincenzo and Booth are very good also.

I go with Xavier next. Blueitt is the league's new Josh Hart. Macura just makes winning plays and Goodin is going to be a solid player. Add in 3 stud freshman led by Paul Scruggs and Naji Marshall and they are stacked with 6 perimeter players who can play and are all 6'4 - 6'6.

On pure talent St Johns is next but they have to show maturity this year. I think they will.

After that I agree with SPK that everyone is extremely close. A lot of backcourt talent in the BE. I'd rate as follows though extremely close.

4 - SH 3 talented scorers but no natural playmaker unless the freshman Walker or KC steps up.

5 - Providence - Extremley underrated PG in Cartwright and they add an excellent freshman PG in Ashton-Langford to give them 2 of the Top PGs in the conference. They will be tough to defend with 2 playmakers on the court.

6 - Marquette - Howard and Rowsey combined to shoot 50% from 3! That's sick! Cheatem supplies some size and defense.

7 - Creighton - Foster is a great scorer, Thomas a great all-around player but they weren't as effective without Watson. They have Syracuse transfer, former Top 50 Kaleb Joseph to run Point this year. They could be a lot higher on this list if Joseph plays well.

8 - Never sleep on Butler. Baldwin was really good as a freshman and I'd be surprised if one of their freshman or transfer Paul Jorgensen don't surprise everyone.

 

[Bluebeard]

I know this is team game with 5 payers on the court, and that's how we should judge the best back court in the conference, but but after reading these posts, I'm thinking about a 3 on 3 with each BE team sending 4 Guards to play,I'd pay $$ to watch that!