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The Rich Buy “Justice”

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cernjSHU

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This is an Incredible criminal who is a billionaire. He had received stolen property from all over the world which amounted to $70 million. Not only did he avoid jail but he avoided criminal charges as well.

Pretty disgraceful as this guy should spend a few years in jail. No way he didn’t know that all of these artifacts were not stolen.

www.cnn.com

New York billionaire Michael Steinhardt surrenders $70 million of stolen ancient art

US billionaire Michael Steinhardt has surrendered 180 stolen relics worth an estimated $70 million and agreed to an "unprecedented" lifetime ban on acquiring antiquities, officials in Manhattan have said.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
 
Hasn’t Cyrus Vance’s office had their heads up their asses on a number of cases over the years?
 
HALL85 said:
Hasn’t Cyrus Vance’s office had their heads up their asses on a number of cases over the years?
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It certainly doesn’t hurt to hire high profile and powered attorneys like Ted Wells and Andrew Lavander. I’d say they earned their fee for this result.

As far as prosecution, it is another example how the uberwealthy sometimes are treated differently just like Epstein.

We all despise this organized looting of high end stores that has been going on. Well, take that and times it by a few million to compare it to what this guy has been doing to various countries around the world.
 
cernjSHU said:
It certainly doesn’t hurt to hire high profile and powered attorneys like Ted Wells and Andrew Lavander. I’d say they earned their fee for this result.

As far as prosecution, it is another example how the uberwealthy sometimes are treated differently just like Epstein.

We all despise this organized looting of high end stores that has been going on. Well, take that and times it by a few million to compare it to what this guy has been doing to various countries around the world.
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Why the whataboutism? Crime is crime. Steinhardt is as despicable as the thugs looting stores and beating/killing security guards. I agree that the wealthy should be held just as accountable if not more.

That's no secret that the wealthy have an advantage, hiring the best lawyers, etc. But that goes for any part of life: healthcare, tax avoidance...You don't think that Trump, Clinton and Prince Andrew were not involved in Epstein's child sex ring? The pilot ID'd them all; they supposedly had to sign a waiver of what the might see on the island. But they will all get away with it. And that's probably just the tip. I can only imagine what's on the trove of pictures that was found at Epstein's NYC residence.

But where is the DA's office and politicians in all of this? People don't have the fortitude to take these criminals on? (white collar or street thugs?).
 
HALL85 said:
Why the whataboutism? Crime is crime. Steinhardt is as despicable as the thugs looting stores and beating/killing security guards. I agree that the wealthy should be held just as accountable if not more.

That's no secret that the wealthy have an advantage, hiring the best lawyers, etc. But that goes for any part of life: healthcare, tax avoidance...You don't think that Trump, Clinton and Prince Andrew were not involved in Epstein's child sex ring? The pilot ID'd them all; they supposedly had to sign a waiver of what the might see on the island. But they will all get away with it. And that's probably just the tip. I can only imagine what's on the trove of pictures that was found at Epstein's NYC residence.

But where is the DA's office and politicians in all of this? People don't have the fortitude to take these criminals on? (white collar or street thugs?).
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Wow. You can’t even have a non political discussion without showing obvious biases. There is no whataboutism. That is all crime however one’s theft is so massive he gets away with it. He should be treated the same.

Second, the pilot testified that many people were on Epstein’s plane. Interesting you included Clinton but not Trump. However, these people were on the plane, no allegation was ever made that Clinton nor Trump engaged in Epstein’s crimes. No proof at all and you just casually throw it out there. Taking a ride in a jet doesn’t make you part of it. Stop making these ridiculous and reckless arguments.
 
cernjSHU said:
Wow. You can’t even have a non political discussion without showing obvious biases. There is no whataboutism. That is all crime however one’s theft is so massive he gets away with it. He should be treated the same.

Second, the pilot testified that many people were on Epstein’s plane. Interesting you included Clinton but not Trump. However, these people were on the plane, no allegation was ever made that Clinton nor Trump engaged in Epstein’s crimes. No proof at all and you just casually throw it out there. Taking a ride in a jet doesn’t make you part of it. Stop making these ridiculous and reckless arguments.
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Your reading skills are off this morning. I did list Trump. Who’s the one with a political agenda??

Crime is crime. Neither should get away with it. You were the one that raised the smash and grab to justify your position,
 
Sorry, I guess I missed the Trump name. Still the same. No proof or allegation they were involved. I raised the smash and go as a comparison. They are criminals stealing tens of thousands and should be prosecuted. However, contrast that with the guy who stole $70 million and he goes free. I would like to hear an explanation from the DA's Office concerning this result.

That is not whataboutsim, that is a comparison to show how wrong this is. Whataboutism is when you are confronted with an allegation of wrong doing and you try to justify your position that you did nothing wrong with another another issue or other person who may have done something similar and deflect from what you did.
 
cernjSHU said:
Sorry, I guess I missed the Trump name. Still the same. No proof or allegation they were involved. I raised the smash and go as a comparison. They are criminals stealing tens of thousands and should be prosecuted. However, contrast that with the guy who stole $70 million and he goes free. I would like to hear an explanation from the DA's Office concerning this result.

That is not whataboutsim, that is a comparison to show how wrong this is. Whataboutism is when you are confronted with an allegation of wrong doing and you try to justify your position that you did nothing wrong with another another issue or other person who may have done something similar and deflect from what you did.
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So what are we disagreeing? The smash and grab thieves and the millionaire are getting away with committing crimes. And I’d also like to hear the DA’s position.

I used the Epstein example of how the wealthy will escape scrutiny (Trump, Clinton, Andrew and others), because of their wealth. There is no proof that has presented or that we know of…the wealthy have a way of suppressing that. Just look at how long it took Epstein to get indicted and why so many agencies looked the other way. My niece works for a law firm that is managing the VCF for Epstein victims. She has had to interview many of the victims. She said hardest thing she has ever had to do.
 
HALL85 said:
So what are we disagreeing? The smash and grab thieves and the millionaire are getting away with committing crimes. And I’d also like to hear the DA’s position.

I used the Epstein example of how the wealthy will escape scrutiny (Trump, Clinton, Andrew and others), because of their wealth. There is no proof that has presented or that we know of…the wealthy have a way of suppressing that. Just look at how long it took Epstein to get indicted and why so many agencies looked the other way. My niece works for a law firm that is managing the VCF for Epstein victims. She has had to interview many of the victims. She said hardest thing she has ever had to do.
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We are not disagreeing about that all of them should be punished. However, the smash and grab people will be punished if they are identified. This billionaire was identified and let go. I just find this extraordinary that the DA has not stated why there were no criminal charges. in the article https://hyperallergic.com/698228/hedge-fund-billionaire-surrenders-70-million-in-looted-art/

Here is the DA's explanation "That’s because the DA’s office made the call to prioritize the timely repatriation of those objects and the protection of witnesses over the battle to convict Steinhardt in court, which would undoubtedly have been costly and lengthy." Uhm, sounds very lame. This is the type of case in which you go after to send the message. This is just bad. I understand the DA in Manhattan has so much to do. But you can't just let this guy get off free with no consequences.
 
Don’t disagree with you on the DA and the explanation.

Not to belabor it, but I don’t share your prediction on the smash and grab prosecution. I believe over a dozen of the criminals involved in the LA crime were immediately released. (Bail?), and I doubt they will ever be tried and serve time.

While we are on the subject of wealth and celebrity, what’s your view on Jussie Smollet and the punishment he should face vs what he will likely get?
 
HALL85 said:
Don’t disagree with you on the DA and the explanation.

Not to belabor it, but I don’t share your prediction on the smash and grab prosecution. I believe over a dozen of the criminals involved in the LA crime were immediately released. (Bail?), and I doubt they will ever be tried and serve time.

While we are on the subject of wealth and celebrity, what’s your view on Jussie Smollet and the punishment he should face vs what he will likely get?
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The smash and grab people were released pending trial? I am not sure what is going on in California whether they suspended cash bail or went to a bail reform policy like NJ. Even here in NJ, they would probably be released pending trial. Not that I agree with this. Personally, that type of organized ring should see jail time with that type of monetary value should see jail time. One of the smash and grabs used bear spray in order to accomplish the burglary thereby converting the burglary into a robbery.

Smollett should be convicted and should receive jail time as well. It won't be long, but you can't have law enforcement waste their time trying to investigate fake crimes. I can't predict what California justice will do. However, it is a bad message to the community that the rich and famous always go free.

I believe the pendulum has swung to be too permissive with crime. Yes, there were abuses in terms of people staying in jail for a petty crime with a $500 bail but could not afford it. But that was the exception especially in NJ. Instead of tweaking and correcting the system, they threw it out the window.
 
Comparing smash and grab and Epstein to Steinhardt makes no sense to me.

I am not sure he "bought" justice. He was in position to negotiate and he did.

IMO, the S&G guys and Epstein, et al are more of a threat to society than this guy.

I can take or leave it as far as prosecuting him. Sounds like all parties were satisfied with the safe and timey return of the art.
 
Pirata said:
Comparing smash and grab and Epstein to Steinhardt makes no sense to me.

I am not sure he "bought" justice. He was in position to negotiate and he did.

IMO, the S&G guys and Epstein, et al are more of a threat to society than this guy.

I can take or leave it as far as prosecuting him. Sounds like all parties were satisfied with the safe and timey return of the art.
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Ah you see a difference between smash and grab and Steinhardt? Are they both not thieves? Is somehow if you steal Gucci and Louis Vuitton, you should go to jail. But if you steal millions of art work from around the world, you should not even get charged? Yes, I know he didn't steal it but it is still a crime to knowingly receive stolen property.

I wonder if this guy had the Mona Lisa or Guernica hanging on his walls would you feel differently as opposed to art that you feel no connection to. Of course that assumes you have a connection to DaVinci or Picasso.
 
The guy is a criminal and should go to jail.....but....recovering one of a kind works of art is a unique challenge. Is it possible the prosecutor cut a deal that said something like - "No jail but you better return everything you have that is stolen. If we find something later on, you're going to jail for everything".
 
cernjSHU said:
Ah you see a difference between smash and grab and Steinhardt? Are they both not thieves? Is somehow if you steal Gucci and Louis Vuitton, you should go to jail. But if you steal millions of art work from around the world, you should not even get charged? Yes, I know he didn't steal it but it is still a crime to knowingly receive stolen property.

I wonder if this guy had the Mona Lisa or Guernica hanging on his walls would you feel differently as opposed to art that you feel no connection to. Of course that assumes you have a connection to DaVinci or Picasso.
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I'm partial to Botticelli.

While wandering around Florence a couple years ago we stumbled into the church of All saints. Botticelli is entombed there as is Simonetta Vespucci. She was married to a Vespucci who was the cousin of Americus. Americus is also entombed in the same church.

Simonetta was a frequent model in many of Botticelli's works. The Medici were his patrons and one of the Medicis was the model for Mars and Simeonetta was the model for Venus in Botticelli's Venus and Mars masterpiece.

I also like Raphael's work. He did the old Papal apartments which are next to the Sistine chapel. Apparently Raphael was a very personable person whereas Michelangelo was talented but a bit of a prick.

Some of Boticcelli's works were burned in the bonfires the vanities. You guys responsible for that should have been put in prison.
 
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cernjSHU said:
Ah you see a difference between smash and grab and Steinhardt? Are they both not thieves? Is somehow if you steal Gucci and Louis Vuitton, you should go to jail. But if you steal millions of art work from around the world, you should not even get charged? Yes, I know he didn't steal it but it is still a crime to knowingly receive stolen property.

I wonder if this guy had the Mona Lisa or Guernica hanging on his walls would you feel differently as opposed to art that you feel no connection to. Of course that assumes you have a connection to DaVinci or Picasso.
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I'm partial to Botticelli.

Well wandering around Florence a couple years ago we stumbled into the church of All saints. Botticelli is entombed there as is Simonetta Vespucci. She was married too the dispute she was the cousin of Americus. Americus is also entombed in the same church.

Simonetta was a frequent model in many of Botticelli's works. The Medici were his patrons and one of the Medicis was the model for Mars and Simeonetta was the model for Venus and Botticelli's Venus and Mars masterpiece.

I also like Raphael's work. He did the old Papal apartments which are next to the Sistine chapel. Apparently Raphael was a very personable person whereas Michelangelo was talented but a bit of a prick.

Some of Botticelli's works were burned in the bonfires the vanities. You guys responsible for that should have been put in prison.
 
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knowknow456 said:
The guy is a criminal and should go to jail.....but....recovering one of a kind works of art is a unique challenge. Is it possible the prosecutor cut a deal that said something like - "No jail but you better return everything you have that is stolen. If we find something later on, you're going to jail for everything".
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I can understand if the DA made a deal for a return of all the artwork for no charges deeming the return of the art more important than this guy being charged. However, the DA did not say that.

It seems as if they had already recovered the stolen art. It was a matter of having the artwork returned to the countries promptly and not having the other countries pay for witnesses to come in and testify. Those explanations are weak. It is an unacceptable reason not to prosecute this man.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
Wait a second. Justice in America is based on class? Shocking and doesn't seem right. The news has been telling me for years it's based on race.
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You can't deny that race has played a part. Nor can we deny that money plays a part. This in not an either or.
 
cernjSHU said:
You can't deny that race has played a part. Nor can we deny that money plays a part. This in not an either or.
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Are you saying that if Steinhardt were black, he would be prosecuted?

I don't understand why you are obsessing about this case.

Bernie Madoff got his due. Martha Stewart got her due. Rich people get convicted.
 
cernjSHU said:
You can't deny that race has played a part. Nor can we deny that money plays a part. This in not an either or.
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Race doesn’t play a part. If someone as rich as Lebron or Ben Carson get in trouble, they got the money to get the best lawyers and they have a better chance than my white ass or anyone other white person on this board will do in the same circumstance, because of money.
 
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Pirata said:
Are you saying that if Steinhardt were black, he would be prosecuted?

I don't understand why you are obsessing about this case.

Bernie Madoff got his due. Martha Stewart got her due. Rich people get convicted.
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Obviously he’s not saying that, the title of the thread is about justice being bought not race. Yes rich people get convicted but more times than not if you compare 2 similar cases with different results, the guy who paid for the better lawyer almost always turns out better no matter their skin color.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
Obviously he’s not saying that, the title of the thread is about justice being bought not race. Yes rich people get convicted but more times than not if you compare 2 similar cases with different results, the guy who paid for the better lawyer almost always turns out better no matter their skin color.
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or the guy who has some sort of connections.
 
cernjSHU said:
This is an Incredible criminal who is a billionaire. He had received stolen property from all over the world which amounted to $70 million. Not only did he avoid jail but he avoided criminal charges as well.

Pretty disgraceful as this guy should spend a few years in jail. No way he didn’t know that all of these artifacts were not stolen.

www.cnn.com

New York billionaire Michael Steinhardt surrenders $70 million of stolen ancient art

US billionaire Michael Steinhardt has surrendered 180 stolen relics worth an estimated $70 million and agreed to an "unprecedented" lifetime ban on acquiring antiquities, officials in Manhattan have said.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
Click to expand...

The really fascinating angle here would have been for the media and government to shed light on this (and other such) elite global black market
 
Pirata said:
Maxwell got her due despite her high priced lawyers and her money.
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This case is a different animal. She's very dangerous to some very powerful high net worth people. She's not one of the good ole boys or girls.
 
I have this vision of Prince Andrew sweating bullets More so than his regular sweating condition.
 
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Is “British Socialite” like a profession? Is that on her resume?

I think there’s a couple of ex-Presidents sweating tonight besides Andrew.
 
First, Bill Clinton was not part of this nor was there any allegation that he was. Neither was Donald Trump despite he and Epstein being very close and hung out and partied together.

Second, what will her credibility mean if she named names? She is a convicted felon now. I say her word would be of very little value and every prosecutor knows this. While I am sure there were powerful men that were involved with Epstein but none that anyone are alluding to on this Board and probably most of them are not famous but powerful.
 
cernjSHU said:
First, Bill Clinton was not part of this nor was there any allegation that he was. Neither was Donald Trump despite he and Epstein being very close and hung out and partied together.

Second, what will her credibility mean if she named names? She is a convicted felon now. I say her word would be of very little value and every prosecutor knows this. While I am sure there were powerful men that were involved with Epstein but none that anyone are alluding to on this Board and probably most of them are not famous but powerful.
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Both Clinton and Trump were ID'd by the pilot, so you have to be a little naïve to think they didn't know what was going on there. Maybe the four women that provided most of the testimony didn't have interactions with them. As I mentioned earlier, my niece works for a law firm that's administering the VCF money and has had to interview dozens of victims.

We also know there were troves of pictures, videos that were confiscated from Epstein's residence. Not far fetched to think she may have evidence of anyone she names. She probably didn't think she would be convicted, so now facing significant jail time, no secret that she'll do everything in her power to avoid it.
 
cernjSHU said:
Second, what will her credibility mean if she named names? She is a convicted felon now. I say her word would be of very little value and every prosecutor knows this. While I am sure there were powerful men that were involved with Epstein but none that anyone are alluding to on this Board and probably most of them are not famous but powerful.
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Wouldn't that logic apply to anyone who enters a plea deal to avoid sentencing. They are basically admitting they're guilty as sin and we listen to them all of the time. Or do you have to be officially convicted to lose credibility?
 
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shu09 said:
What's the over/under on her "suicide?" Two weeks?
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Big difference between Maxwell and Epstein. Her whole life is built on being dependent to someone. She finds the right person to protect her in all this, she will likely squeal to stay out of jail. Depending on the person, there is always someone that will want to take big names down if they stand to gain. She is the definition of a chameleon.
 
cernjSHU said:
First, Bill Clinton was not part of this nor was there any allegation that he was. Neither was Donald Trump despite he and Epstein being very close and hung out and partied together.

Second, what will her credibility mean if she named names? She is a convicted felon now. I say her word would be of very little value and every prosecutor knows this. While I am sure there were powerful men that were involved with Epstein but none that anyone are alluding to on this Board and probably most of them are not famous but powerful.
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Clintons name was recorded on the flight log 27 times aboard the "lolita express"

hes potentially a top suspect of course has been washed from the google search engines in the last year.
 
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