The Second Wave

[HALL85]

https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-ne...-despair-in-2019-early-pandemic-data-is-grim/

Early numbers from 2020 are coming in and they are staggering. Too many people ignoring these unintended consequences of isolation (and many policies that made no sense), shutting down the economy for lengthy periods and displacing workers. And all of these so-called caring politicians that care about helping the underserved....

"After many years, Blacks surpassed whites in age-adjusted, drug-induced deaths and now have a higher rate than any other race or ethnicity. There was a small increase for whites, but for all other races and ethnicities the death rate grew by four to six times."

And it's only going to get worse as we have created a much unhealthier population over the last year that will manifest itself in higher mortality rates from increased numbers of heart disease, diabetes, etc. over the next 2-5 years.

 

[Pirata]

Exercise down. Alcohol and drug consumption up.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

Exercise down. Alcohol and drug consumption up.

That's weird most people i know are exercising more by taking long walks to pass the time.

 

[shu09]

Many people gained a lot of weight in the last year because they sat at home all day and didn't get out. Not to mention gyms closed until September.

 

[SHUSA]

That's weird most people i know are exercising more by taking long walks to pass the time.

yea i did a lot more running each day

 

[Merge]

https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-ne...-despair-in-2019-early-pandemic-data-is-grim/

Early numbers from 2020 are coming in and they are staggering. Too many people ignoring these unintended consequences of isolation (and many policies that made no sense), shutting down the economy for lengthy periods and displacing workers. And all of these so-called caring politicians that care about helping the underserved....

"After many years, Blacks surpassed whites in age-adjusted, drug-induced deaths and now have a higher rate than any other race or ethnicity. There was a small increase for whites, but for all other races and ethnicities the death rate grew by four to six times."

And it's only going to get worse as we have created a much unhealthier population over the last year that will manifest itself in higher mortality rates from increased numbers of heart disease, diabetes, etc. over the next 2-5 years.

That part you quoted to emphasize your point about 2020 is related to 2019.

Long term effects remain to be seen of course but if I recall correctly, you were also expecting suicides to increase in 2020 but they actually declined from 2019.

 

[HALL85]

That part you quoted to emphasize your point about 2020 is related to 2019.

Long term effects remain to be seen of course but if I recall correctly, you were also expecting suicides to increase in 2020 but they actually declined from 2019.

If you read the article, they said the suicide data is not complete yet for 2020.

 

[HALL85]

That's weird most people i know are exercising more by taking long walks to pass the time.

My daughter, who is a buyer for a national retailer sent me an article recently that noted that the average American gained 8-10 pounds in 2020. She said they when the do the buying for a particular line, they volumes are shifting up one to two sizes to accommodate for it.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

My daughter, who is a buyer for a national retailer sent me an article recently that noted that the average American gained 8-10 pounds in 2020. She said they when the do the buying for a particular line, they volumes are shifting up one to two sizes to accommodate for it.

So most Americans are fat and lazy, this isnt surprising, just check out the local fast food lines or how popular Netflix is.

 

[shu09]

So most Americans are fat and lazy, this isnt surprising, just check out the local fast food lines or how popular Netflix is.

Gee, maybe that was part of the problem when it comes to covid deaths? Who would have thunk?!

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

Gee, maybe that was part of the problem when it comes to covid deaths? Who would have thunk?!

No shit sherlock, hence why they tried to protect the vulnerable population of unhealthy americans.

 

[HALL85]

No shit sherlock, hence why they tried to protect the vulnerable population of unhealthy americans.

Unfortunately, there should have been dual-messaging. We should have found practical ways to isolate or distance, while also reinforcing healthy living (diet and exercise) within the construct of keeping things as normal as possible.

 

[Merge]

If you read the article, they said the suicide data is not complete yet for 2020.

I read the article which is why I questioned the part you were quoting because it didn't have anything to do with the pandemic.

My understanding of the 2020 suicide rate was not from that article. Data is still preliminary but the suicide rate in 2020 will be down.

The Leading Causes of Death in the US for 2020

This Viewpoint from the US National Center for Health Statistics reports a 2020 mortality estimate 17.7% higher than that of 2019, with leading causes of death comprising heart disease, cancer, and COVID-19.

jamanetwork.com

 

[shu09]

No shit sherlock, hence why they tried to protect the vulnerable population of unhealthy americans.

People who live healthy lives should not have been restricted/punished because fat and lazy Americans might have been vulnerable to a virus. This incredibly bad policy decision was based on flawed models and the myth of massive asymptomatic transmission. Look what they did. Now you have people that have to be "rewired" to not treat innocent, maskless Americans as threats to them. They DIVIDED us on purpose and people like you fell for it.

People who were vulnerable should have been advised to stay home as much as possible. The rest of us should have lived life normally.

History will look back on 2020 as an unconscionable abuse of power by government.

 

[SHUSA]

Unfortunately, there should have been dual-messaging. We should have found practical ways to isolate or distance, while also reinforcing healthy living (diet and exercise) within the construct of keeping things as normal as possible.

the problem is that you can distance immediately, but you cant make yourself healthy immediatley. a fat person eating healthy wouldnt lower their covid risk in the last year. just sorta is what it is.

 

[shu09]

the problem is that you can distance immediately, but you cant make yourself healthy immediatley. a fat person eating healthy wouldnt lower their covid risk in the last year. just sorta is what it is.

Which is why this country should always have been promoting healthy foods and healthy lifestyles instead of endless promotion, marketing and subsidies for producers of fast food, junk food, beer, etc.

 

[HALL85]

the problem is that you can distance immediately, but you cant make yourself healthy immediatley. a fat person eating healthy wouldnt lower their covid risk in the last year. just sorta is what it is.

But without the messaging, we have actually created an unhealthier population. What happens if there is another wave in the fall? We have a population at greater risk.

 

[SHUSA]

But without the messaging, we have actually created an unhealthier population. What happens if there is another wave in the fall? We have a population at greater risk.

ehhh vaccinations are working.

 

[HALL85]

ehhh vaccinations are working.

They are, but we could be dealing with new mutated strains.

 

[Merge]

we have actually created an unhealthier population.

Lots of supposition there. We don't know if that is an accurate statement.

 

[HALL85]

Lots of supposition there. We don't know if that is an accurate statement.

8-10 pounds of muscle you think?

 

[SHUSA]

They are, but we could be dealing with new mutated strains.

typically they mutate less deadly. but from my understand the method of action for these vaccines is more equipped to deal with mutations. unlike a typical flu vaccine.

in fact, flu might be scarier than covid next winter

 

[Merge]

8-10 pounds of muscle you think?

Not suggesting that, but there isn't a way to equate that to health at this point.

 

[HALL85]

Not suggesting that, but there isn't a way to equate that to health at this point.

Really, if you're fatter, your healthier?

 

[Merge]

Really, if you're fatter, your healthier?

Not an argument I am making. I am saying you have no way of knowing if the population is unhealthier now or not. I'm not arguing weight gain is a good thing, but there is just not enough information to know if it is a bad thing and certainly not enough information to know if it is bad as you are implying by saying the people who gained weight would be more at risk to Covid in the fall.

 

[shu09]

Not an argument I am making. I am saying you have no way of knowing if the population is unhealthier now or not. I'm not arguing weight gain is a good thing, but there is just not enough information to know if it is a bad thing and certainly not enough information to know if it is bad as you are implying by saying the people who gained weight would be more at risk to Covid in the fall.

Wow....this post takes my breath away. It has been proven time and time again that age and weight are two of the more significant factors in covid outcomes.

 

[Merge]

Wow....this post takes my breath away. It has been proven time and time again that age and weight are two of the more significant factors in covid outcomes.

Exactly! Who were the people that gained weight? How old were they? What was their percentage of weight gains? Did Obesity rates increase?

 

[HALL85]

Not an argument I am making. I am saying you have no way of knowing if the population is unhealthier now or not. I'm not arguing weight gain is a good thing, but there is just not enough information to know if it is a bad thing and certainly not enough information to know if it is bad as you are implying by saying the people who gained weight would be more at risk to Covid in the fall.

I was not relating weight gain to Covid. Weight gain has created an unhealthier population that will manifest itself in cardiac disease, diabetes and other episodes of care.

 

[Merge]

I was not relating weight gain to Covid.

Yes, you were.

What happens if there is another wave in the fall? We have a population at greater risk.

^ That is your guess. I am saying we don't know that to be true or not.

Weight gain has created an unhealthier population that will manifest itself in cardiac disease, diabetes and other episodes of care.

Possibly, and possibly not. I am not convinced yet based on available data. Kind of like how I wasn't convinced that suicide rates would be up in 2020 when you were making that argument. I didn't think your argument was sound then just like I don't think your argument is sound now.

 

[HALL85]

Yes, you were.



^ That is your guess. I am saying we don't know that to be true or not.



Possibly, and possibly not. I am not convinced yet based on available data. Kind of like how I wasn't convinced that suicide rates would be up in 2020 when you were making that argument. I didn't think your argument was sound then just like I don't think your argument is sound now.

Well you did acknowledge me as the resident healthcare expert and I do talk to a number of medical people in the community that would agree with me. Suit yourself. I think I’ll go with their assessment over yours. Remember also, that people have put off annual physicals and wellness checks for over a year. If they have a condition they have missed an opportunity to have it treated for an extended period of time.

I still also believe (supported by medical experts and data - I.e. increased mental health interventions, prescription drug use, etc.) suicides will go up and that we are dealing with mental health issues that manifest themselves over time. Can’t be measured in just one year.

But keep jamming those big Macs down your throat. I’m sure you’ll be fine.

 

[Merge]

Well you did acknowledge me as the resident healthcare expert and I do talk to a number of medical people in the community that would agree with me. Suit yourself. I think I’ll go with their assessment over yours. Remember also, that people have put off annual physicals and wellness checks for over a year. If they have a condition they have missed an opportunity to have it treated for an extended period of time.

I still also believe (supported by medical experts and data - I.e. increased mental health interventions, prescription drug use, etc.) suicides will go up and that we are dealing with mental health issues that manifest themselves over time. Can’t be measured in just one year.

But keep jamming those big Macs down your throat. I’m sure you’ll be fine.

You said suicides were going to increase due to the lockdowns. Lockdowns have been over for a while. Suicide rates did not increase as a result of the lockdowns. I'll offer a counterpoint that the lockdowns were not as devastating as you though because people found their bubbles and adjusted, and economic risks related to mental health were mitigated by government funding.

Also -

• McDonald's annual revenue for 2020 was $19.208B, a 10.09% decline from 2019.

No one is saying weight gain is a good thing, but if the population that put on weight was relatively healthy /fit to begin with, that is not going to make a significant difference in their health. Until we understand more about who was gaining the weight, drawing conclusions is premature.

I'd feel differently if the average was driven by older people gaining 30 lbs and other groups staying the same or losing weight.

 

[HALL85]

You said suicides were going to increase due to the lockdowns. Lockdowns have been over for a while. Suicide rates did not increase as a result of the lockdowns. I'll offer a counterpoint that the lockdowns were not as devastating as you though because people found their bubbles and adjusted, and economic risks related to mental health were mitigated by government funding.

Also -

• McDonald's annual revenue for 2020 was $19.208B, a 10.09% decline from 2019.

No one is saying weight gain is a good thing, but if the population that put on weight was relatively healthy /fit to begin with, that is not going to make a significant difference in their health. Until we understand more about who was gaining the weight, drawing conclusions is premature.

I'd feel differently if the average was driven by older people gaining 30 lbs and other groups staying the same or losing weight.

You are dense sometimes. Mental illness is a long term process in many cases. The number of mental health calls coming into hospitals has increased dramatically. I never said suicides would increase immediately. This is something that we are going to have to measure over time. In addition, as the article states, drug overdose fatalities are up significantly. I believe the article refers to them as “deaths of despair”. It may not be a suicide as is defined by physically taking someone’s life, but how do you determine if an overdose was by accident or self-inflicted? I think the article speaks for itself. There are a lot of negative affects and death relating from Covid isolation. And once again, the article clearly states that they still don’t have all of the 2020 suicide data. How many times do I need to repeat that?

Also, kind of silly that you point to McDonald’s revenue, when those restaurants were closed or offering limited service for a good part of 2020. When you get a chance research record revenues that companies who make unhealthy comfort food enjoyed. I have a good friend who is vice president of sales and marketing for Hostess and they had a record year. I’m sure you can find those numbers online.

 

[Pirata]

Women, alcohol, and COVID-19 - Harvard Health

Excessive alcohol use is a common response to coping with stress, but the physical, mental, and emotional impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic have had a disproportionate effect on women. There are med...

www.health.harvard.edu

 

[Pirata]

COVID-19 Pandemic Results in Increased Substance Use Among Regular Drug Users

Sudden disruptions in the supply of street drugs when the COVID-19 pandemic began were associated with an increase in overdose deaths and other harms.

www.pharmacytimes.com

 

[Pirata]

Young People Hit Hardest By Loneliness And Depression During Covid-19

A CDC online survey indicates that young people between the ages of 18-24 are more likely to suffer mental health problems during the pandemic than any age group.

www.forbes.com

 

[Pirata]

Can COVID-19 Cause Weight Gain?

Weight loss after illness from COVID-19 is more common. But learn why some people might experience weight gain.

www.healthline.com

 

[Merge]

You are dense sometimes. Mental illness is a long term process in many cases. The number of mental health calls coming into hospitals has increased dramatically. I never said suicides would increase immediately. This is something that we are going to have to measure over time. In addition, as the article states, drug overdose fatalities are up significantly. I believe the article refers to them as “deaths of despair”. It may not be a suicide as is defined by physically taking someone’s life, but how do you determine if an overdose was by accident or self-inflicted? I think the article speaks for itself. There are a lot of negative affects and death relating from Covid isolation. And once again, the article clearly states that they still don’t have all of the 2020 suicide data. How many times do I need to repeat that?

The issue I have is that you have an opinion that the restrictions were in place were bad. You have an opinion that will lead to certain events in the future.... but you are stating this stuff like it is a certainty and it's not and just picking where you want to place blame.

Of course mental health may be at risk when there is a global pandemic which has taken the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans and millions globally, but you tie that only to the isolation aspect of the pandemic. If we just went on living our lives with no restrictions at all, is the mental health situation any better than it is today? I'm not sure how you can make that argument.

I think it is fair to criticize the governments response, but I think you are missing the consideration on what the alternatives would have looked like.

 

[HALL85]

The issue I have is that you have an opinion that the restrictions were in place were bad. You have an opinion that will lead to certain events in the future.... but you are stating this stuff like it is a certainty and it's not and just picking where you want to place blame.

Of course mental health may be at risk when there is a global pandemic which has taken the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans and millions globally, but you tie that only to the isolation aspect of the pandemic. If we just went on living our lives with no restrictions at all, is the mental health situation any better than it is today? I'm not sure how you can make that argument.

I think it is fair to criticize the governments response, but I think you are missing the consideration on what the alternatives would have looked like.

You don’t get to tell me what my opinions are. What I’ve been saying all along is that isolation created by the pandemic does have consequences and that it needed to be taken into consideration when some of the decisions on restrictions were being made. Same as my point about making healthy lifestyle decisions. Medical experts have been pointing to this the entire time.

 

[Pirata]

and economic risks related to mental health were mitigated by government funding.

Please enlighten us.

 

[shu09]

Please enlighten us.

Curious as well.