Absolutely agree with that. Everything should be a consideration. I'm just not sure why you think mental health considerations were not considered though. What would the alternatives look like regarding mental health implications?
The Second Wave
- Thread starter HALL85
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Absolutely agree with that. Everything should be a consideration. I'm just not sure why you think mental health considerations were not considered though. What would the alternatives look like regarding mental health implications?
The suggestion was maybe 85's assumption that lockdowns were increasing suicide rates was not actually correct was because the government was handing out money so people didn't feel as hopeless as they would have otherwise. Not really going out on a limb to suggest an economic crisis increase suicide risk. My question is, did the stimulus payments and increase unemployment benefits mitigate that risk enough to prevent suicides from increasing?
It’s pretty simple…the more you take things away from people, the more it effects their mental health. One example I think has created a lot of mental health issues are the draconian rules some states and universities put in place regarding remote learning. And we know now that was heavily influenced by the Teachers unions, with little or no science behind it.
Theoretically, sure. Did it play out like that? You cited increased mental health calls to hospitals earlier.
Did that occur at a higher rate in states where these draconian rules were imposed compared to states where no rules were imposed? What was the increase from baseline as a percentage in each state?
A high correlation would indicate that you are correct, a low correlation could indicate that the increased depression / anxiety could have just been an unavoidable result of a global pandemic.
It’s not just “states” and no one is measuring those kind of stats you are asking about. It’s common sense though, which any mental health expert will tell you. Your stress level relating to the pandemic increases when it effects you life and routine.
Your stress level relating to the (fill in the blank with whatever you want) increases when it effects (sic) you (sic) life and routine.
The reason I asked was because you had said -
No one is questioning that there would be a toll on mental health during a global pandemic... but you were tying it to the lockdowns specifically so I was just asking you if that played out in the data which you were talking about earlier.
In my opinion, you tend to want to blame the governments in their response to lockdowns but any correlation you might find could be pointing towards the pandemic itself and not the response to it as the cause.
I am sure they helped some people.
I think 85's second wave notion is sound. Beyond the disease itself, the collateral damage from the lockdowns, masks, home from school, will be felt long after the medical issues are resolved.
The full economic impact to small business, the labor force, building supplies, the real estate market, tourism, air travel, has yet to be determined.
I am not going argue decimal points on suicide rates.
There have been some positive impacts. The ability to work remotely has created great opportunities. I have personally benefit from this one. I have access to labor now that I did not previously.
Mental health calls are up dramatically. Measuring then the way you are asking is not being done to my knowledge.
And your opinion about my motivation is wrong.
Right, all I am saying is that he seems to be pushing that any negative impacts would be the result of how we responded more than the fact that we were living through a global pandemic.
and like I said, if his argument is sound then that would be evident comparing states which were impacted by Covid but had little to no restrictions to states impacted by Covid which has a lot of restrictions.
How many times do I have to say it that your opinion of what my point is is incorrect? Just because you keep repeating the same thing doesn’t make it right.
I'm not misrepresenting your point. Your point was clear when you started this thread.
You're blaming politicians for the policies and their response to a global pandemic.
I did read the "any" in his thesis. I read it more like "some".
We can torture the data until it tells us what we want to hear.
It seems you assume that any critique of the polices means the critiquer would have preferred we had done nothing. I don't agree with that. I think we had to have some measures but they went to too far and caused more damage than perhaps a middle of the road approach. Some of the damage won't ever be directly correlated to this and hence data torture may yield some inaccurate conclusions.
Ok, for the fourth (or fifth) time, I’m not blaming the politicians for everything nor the isolation for every death by despair. My point (once again), is that there are consequences to being isolated, having your life circumstances significantly changed and we are seeing this in the significant increases in mental health episodes and death. I’m not saying we shouldn’t have done anything, but I do think many policies and actions were politically motivated, short-sighted and contributed to the casualties. And they are also contributing to these ongoing problems.
fwiw, I don't torture data. I develop my expectations of what the data should show before I look at it including what the data would show if my assumptions were wrong.
I'm sure your boy appreciates you sticking up for him, but he has been beating the drum that the government is to blame for not considering unintended consequences.
This was 6 months ago.
"Daunting" when rates declined in 2020 just doesn't really seem to jive. At some point, you'd think you would look at what has happened since then and question your belief.
Keep ignoring what I posted. The article you are quoting states that the suicide data is incomplete. And as I also said, it needs to be measured over time, not six months (where did you pull that arbitrary number?).
There is a balance and I wouldn't argue that politicians got it 100% correct. They didn't but I don't think that is really possible either.. there were certainly worse options with more restrictive measures they could have done which could have saved people from dying of Covid and there were less restrictive measures they could have gone with as well. As someone who typically tends to err on the side of caution, I didn't have an issue with most of the restrictions and early on I'd argue we didn't really have much of a choice either.
The government responded to the economic toll with extra unemployment benefits, eviction moratoriums and stimulus payments which I thought was the right thing to do and the mental health impacts would have been far worse had they not done so.
I can appreciate you saying you are worried about the long term impacts of what these measures will be, I'm just not sold on the outcomes going the direction you are saying they are going.
Again, I wasn't using your article for the suicide rates.
It is the preliminary data from the CDC that suicide rates declined over 5% from 2019.
and the 6 month number was because your post about that was from 6 months ago.
You said the estimate for US suicides is daunting. What were the time period you were referring to?
Moderna vaccine at 95 percent effective rate
Hello. See the latest research from science magazine. There is a lot of unknown about this disease but further research is showing immunity wanes quickly. This is why I think we will be dealing for this pandemic for years to come. People will not be willing to get the vaccine every year. The...
setonhall.forums.rivals.com
I would argue that politicians did an awful job on imposing restrictions and providing guidance. There were way too many policies that were politically influenced (not by science), with little common sense and without any consideration to long term consequences. Most physicians and experts I’ve listened to would concur.
Although I do agree that providing stimulus money was essential to initially get people through it.
Yeah keep believing that.
Pretty much ignore any data that doesn't support your preconceived notions of anything.
You have a chronic case of smartest guy in the room syndrome.
You know everything about everything and are never wrong about anything. Go back and read your posts and it's pretty clear.
Plus you suck at golf.
No worries though, we still love you. 😀
By the way, Glenmaura was tough; but played my best round of the year on Weyhill this week….so you know a derailment is coming tomorrow! Just live that last five finishing holes on that course.
Weyhill is perhaps my all time favorite course. IMO it has the finest set of 4 par 3's on any course.
For years it was an unrated hidden gem because it was so private. When Steel went south, SVCC bought the course, opened it to woman, converted the club house to a guest house, and changed the rotation.
For years it was an unrated hidden gem because it was so private. When Steel went south, SVCC bought the course, opened it to woman, converted the club house to a guest house, and changed the rotation.
When something doesn’t fit for him he says,
well, we have to see, let’s get data, etc. Come to think of it, it’s like that evil WHATABOUTISM oh my goodness!!!!!
if it fits his opinion it’s fact because he’s obtains brilliant information.
I only say that when there isn't enough data. Like when someone says that the number of suicides will be daunting as a result from the lockdowns, I disagreed with the premise but there is literally nothing that could prove the argument at the time... As time went on and we got more data, it is pretty clear the argument was not correct.
and when someone says ", we have actually created an unhealthier population. What happens if there is another wave in the fall? We have a population at greater risk."
Did Americans gain weight? Yes
Is that a good thing? No
Does it result in an unhealthier population at great risk of Covid? Maybe.
I can't prove that to be wrong, as much as they can't prove it to be right. As time goes on though we will start to see more data and understand if it is true or not.
My wife had an appt with her Rheumatologist last week and she actually commented that the blood work for all of her patients has improved during the pandemic. She thought it might be because of a decrease in stress during the year since life was a little bit slower and no one having to commute etc. Is that true? I have no idea if that translates more broadly at this point.
I was sitting in my dentist chair about 200 yards from where this happened.
The word in town is that he caved to the stress of his business failing due to the covid restrictions and all that.
lancasteronline.com
The word in town is that he caved to the stress of his business failing due to the covid restrictions and all that.
Death ruled suicide after police investigate in Warwick Township Thursday [update]
The investigation of the death of a man in his 70s has closed after it was ruled a suicide, the county coroner said.
why are their still restrictions? its a guise. supply chain issues from covid? covid is fine. lowest infections in a long time. the entire country is pushing 80%.I was sitting in my dentist chair about 200 yards from where this happened.
The word in town is that he caved to the stress of his business failing due to the covid restrictions and all that.
Death ruled suicide after police investigate in Warwick Township Thursday [update]
The investigation of the death of a man in his 70s has closed after it was ruled a suicide, the county coroner said.
weve hit the finish line yet you hear still about the affect of covid restrictions. these are artificial restrictions still in place so the govt retains their power and the uber wealthy can increase the wealth gap.
all of these "problems" are man made at this point. calling shu09
And you don’t see a lot of information that points to those that at risk (the elderly and those that have comorbidities.). For the vast majority of the population this is nothing more than a typical flu season right now. Eat right, exercise, reduce your risk factors.
That’s not true. Many companies have restrictions in terms of mask wearing, meetings, public interaction.
It was more the "all that" as far as the immediate cause. The restrictions from 18 months ago caused a downturn in the business because they could only serve at 50 %. Now that those restrictions were lifted restaurants can't get help.
The unemployment payments are keeping people out of the workforce that otherwise would be accepting jobs.
Sadly, he chose not to take it anymore.
Applicants are accepting jobs but then they don't show up.
The unemployment payments are keeping people out of the workforce that otherwise would be accepting jobs.
Sadly, he chose not to take it anymore.
Applicants are accepting jobs but then they don't show up.
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Sure, but really no restrictions about movement and capacity limits anymore. You can do whatever you want.
I feel for the guy and his family. Obviously I don’t know anything about the guy or his business. I’m sure it was a difficult period, but blaming the lockdowns at this point seems political. Making it seem like had we not locked down ever, the guys business would be fine?
Seems like a lot of problems, just saying that there are really very few restrictions in place for a restaurant in PA.
well the vaccine mandate is clearly a restriction that is causing problems. and the supply chain has things like warehouse restrictions that are in place to keep exacerbating the problem.
Just at event with 150 senior citizens with no masks, no restrictions. Move forward and stop being snowflakesx
The Supply chain problems are a result of a number of things. One China has electricity restrictions going on right now slowing production. Two, loaded containers are sitting off the coast in Long Beach waiting to come into the ports. It use to take 3 to 5 days to clear customs in California and now it’s taking 6 to 7 weeks. Backed up, plus labor shortages . Thirdly, we have an extremely high number of containers sitting in the USA causing shortages elsewhere. Lastly, we have a leadership problem with no solutions, plus our secretary of transportation is on paternity leave. Mayor Pete is missing in action. We have another 6 months before things start getting better. Thankfully many companies are taking matters into their own hands and making changes to their business models.