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Trump Sinking the Market with Tariffs

and where is the math that it will take less tax out of a paycheck for everyone?
That math can only happen when they cut enough spending. That can only happen when we get to a surplus AND we're covering the debt on the balance sheet at the same time. I don't think the goal is to have the same deficit by lowering both expenses and revenues.
 
Once again, because you have to eliminate the deficit before you can cut taxes. Is that really hard to understand?
our taxes don't exactly tie or fluctuate with the deficit. wed all be broke by now. and i think you're throwing out the term "eliminate" too willy nilly
 
our taxes don't exactly tie or fluctuate with the deficit. wed all be broke by now. and i think you're throwing out the term "eliminate" too willy nilly

Time will tell here. If we're able to eliminate government positions and those workers are able to find work and the economy is humming along, then we should see the deficit shrink slightly. Though I am certainly not celebrating laying off employees while the economy is showing signs of contraction as we are also creating all kinds of uncertainty in the market with absurd tariff policy. This thread is just so full of deflection from the reality right now.

The idea that trade needs to be equal between countries is absurd. Almost as absurd as the math behind these tariffs. Consumer confidence is approaching Covid level lows and this is all self inflicted. There is absolutely no reason for it. Trump could have announced tariffs to go into effect later this year if a trade agreement wasn't reached with whatever his desired goal is. Instead they are opting for / break shit and see what happens and then fix it later.

Some here will just find a way to deflect or defend anything he does no matter what.
 
our taxes don't exactly tie or fluctuate with the deficit. wed all be broke by now. and i think you're throwing out the term "eliminate" too willy nilly
Yet in your previous comment you wanted taxes to go down because people got laid off? So if they don't tie or fluctuate with the deficit, why should they change with lower expenses?
 
Yet in your previous comment you wanted taxes to go down because people got laid off? So if they don't tie or fluctuate with the deficit, why should they change with lower expenses?
Yet this is someone that will complain about uneducated voters:)
 
Trump blinked first. Thankfully. You see how the markets react. Unfortunately, it’s 90 days of still uncertainty what he will he do at that time. But, it seems as he recognizes, this can’t go on. Now let’s drop this whole silliness altogether. He needs to know he was wrong and move on.

Oh wait, he is still doing the tariffs on China. What a tool.
 
Trump blinked first. Thankfully. You see how the markets react. Unfortunately, it’s 90 days of still uncertainty what he will he do at that time. But, it seems as he recognizes, this can’t go on. Now let’s drop this whole silliness altogether. He needs to know he was wrong and move on.

Oh wait, he is still doing the tariffs on China. What a tool.

He's just a businessman making business decisions.
We all know how much businesses love uncertainty. They don't want to know if tariffs are ever really going to happen. They want months and months of flirtation with it so they have no idea if the price of goods is going up or not.
 
hmm any reason why the tariffs were paused 90 days?
Tariffs are still ongoing at 10%. Question will be if the world is now on notice what can happen IF America decides to go the reciprocal tariffs route in 90 days. He's quite possibly giving everyone time to come to the table in good faith to prevent a rerun in 90 days.
 
I have gone through the 2008 crash and the pandemic crash as an investor. And I haven’t panicked. I haven’t panicked sold either. But this is different. This is the President tanking the market and we do not know for what. Is it revenue to cover tax cuts, is it reciprocal tariffs (no), is it to get manufacturing jobs back, what explanation is it? It’s all chaos and this could lead to an economic calamity and worst case scenario is stagflation where there is. I easy out and lasts year.

So, if you are happy with your investments going down 20-25% since he has been office, well, good. I think it’s reckless and a sign that he cares nothing for the American public. Our money is burning while he plays golf

I'm glad you held through 2008 - that was a real problem and discipline was rewarded long term. I'm glad you held through the COVID panic. That was a huge overreaction, and bounced back quickly once people realized how absurd the drop was.

This time is an even greater overreaction than the COVID nonsense. If you panic sold over the last month or two, the joke is on you. An incredibly bad move.
 
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Trump's plan does not work. We don't have the machinery or labor to reshore most of these jobs. Do you want your kids to get a job making socks? Even if you did you'd want them getting paid a wage they could live on, which would mean $40 socks. The tariff levels Trump cited on his chart were simply incorrect, they were reflections of trade deficits, not simply tariffs. But even so, Trump can brute force some of these smaller economies with protective tariffs into dropping them but to what end? Do you think Cambodians are going to start buying expensive American imports? Even if so the impact would be negligible. He is stuck in a world that no longer exists. Today they were complaining about Australians banning American beef. Why would Australians buy American beef when they have their own??
If you want to improve the lives of American workers, yes, you can try to reshore some factory jobs with some targeted tariffs. Tariffs on their own are not scary. It's that this plan sucks, and everyone knows it.
If you want to help out the average American you can probably find some money in the pockets of the 800 American billionaires who hold an aggregate 6 trillion dollars of wealth
So, plan is simply don’t do it. The implication is that there is/was nothing broken as far as trade. Do you agree that there’s nothing wrong so why did trump try something?

bigger picture - “every trump idea bad”…was that not the Biden/Harris strategy for the 24 election? Right or wrong the country elected a guy who - pre election - prioritized tariffs/trade, the border/illegal immigration, and a host of other things; he’s implementing. Just like how Biden said he’d cancel student debt….

Absent a continued market melt down, I’m just not following how “do the opposite of trump” carries the day on trade/tariffs or most other issues
 
hmm any reason why the tariffs were paused 90 days?

Once again, Trump is out here playing three-dimensional chess while all of you keep guessing, panic selling your stocks, and listening to lazy, hysterical media narratives. He advertises "reciprocal tariffs" for over a month, then comes out with much higher rates to shock the other countries into submission. Dozens come calling, begging for a deal. He says he is rewarding those who want to play ball (deals will come over the next few months), and now China (the worst offender) is cast out on an island all alone. The is entirely about the US vs. China, which will be the real battle in geopolitics over the next 50 years. Trump is trying to level the playing field before, in his terms, it gets too late and then we "don't have the cards." It all goes hand in hand with nailing down rare earth minerals in Ukraine (Xi/China may eventually restrict access as a play in this tit for tat) and his positioning on Greenland (strategic Arctic location). Brilliant strategy on the part of the president.

If you really want to understand what's going on, read the Art of the Deal and listen to Bessent. He has been telegraphing everything the administration wants to do. Lutnick, Elon, Navarro are distractions for the most part.
 
Once again, Trump is out here playing three-dimensional chess while all of you keep guessing, panic selling your stocks, and listening to lazy, hysterical media narratives. He advertises "reciprocal tariffs" for over a month, then comes out with much higher rates to shock the other countries into submission. Dozens come calling, begging for a deal. He says he is rewarding those who want to play ball (deals will come over the next few months), and now China (the worst offender) is cast out on an island all alone. The is entirely about the US vs. China, which will be the real battle in geopolitics over the next 50 years. Trump is trying to level the playing field before, in his terms, it gets too late and then we "don't have the cards." It all goes hand in hand with nailing down rare earth minerals in Ukraine (Xi/China may eventually restrict access as a play in this tit for tat) and his positioning on Greenland (strategic Arctic location). Brilliant strategy on the part of the president.

If you really want to understand what's going on, read the Art of the Deal and listen to Bessent. He has been telegraphing everything the administration wants to do. Lutnick, Elon, Navarro are distractions for the most part.
Trump then is a super genius. Smarter than everyone. I read that garbage book. He is a con man and it doesn’t matter if he’s wrong , he will just say he right. There have been no deals agreed to. He was forced to do this because the markets crashed and recession was coming on quickly. Someone finally got to him.

Otherwise, why stop? If you had all this leverage, why stop before you got the deals done? He’s not a genius. He’s just stupid. He tried to do something that almost all sane people would have said this is just dumb.
 
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people think hes dumber than he is. they also thing he's smarter than he is.

everyone should hope this works out. but is there another way than pure chaos? not a fan of making people fear for their jobs or worry they need more in their emergency fund. there's other ways than burning every international bridge?
 
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Do nothing different than Biden did running 2T defecit in each of his last two years and Trump would be a hero to MSM.Try to do something different to improve country and you are villan unless and until it works.Next big move Trump could do is loosen restrictions on mining earth minerals similar to what he is requesting from Ukraine.US loaded with minerals particularly in Western states.If he does this and companies react favorably so much wealth could be created that all or most states could eliminate their personal income tax.Stay tuned.
 
He went entirely too far and thankfully Bessent and lots of CEOs including Ackman and Musk talked him down. People who don’t understand the financial markets (not the stock market) don’t understand that we were a hair away from crashing the bond market. That would have crushed liquidity in the market and recession is guaranteed but it could have gotten much worse than that. This was a reckless set of decisions.
They will get concessions and some wins but also might have an all out trade war with China.

He had no idea where this was trending. He definitely did something big I’ll give him that. The volatility will continue. The best thing they can do is get those wins quickly and announce them. Then deal with China. Right now our prices are still going up because of the huge reliance on Chinese goods and that’s not good for Americans.
 
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Hall85, no one is spiking the football. I think this 90. Day pause is 90 days of the market going no where. Big moves up and big moves down. This uncertainty is awful. The China escalation is awful. All what was done was to prevent a crash. But we aren’t moving back to where we were unless this gets cleared up. And that’s not going to happen soon. Trump lost his leverage.

Meanwhile, he is killing Apple. The largest holdings of most people. We are in for months if not years of pain. I don’t know who is celebrating.
 
people think hes dumber than he is. they also thing he's smarter than he is.

everyone should hope this works out. but is there another way than pure chaos? not a fan of making people fear for their jobs or worry they need more in their emergency fund. there's other ways than burning every international bridge?

Hall85, no one is spiking the football. I think this 90. Day pause is 90 days of the market going no where. Big moves up and big moves down. This uncertainty is awful. The China escalation is awful. All what was done was to prevent a crash. But we aren’t moving back to where we were unless this gets cleared up. And that’s not going to happen soon. Trump lost his leverage.

Meanwhile, he is killing Apple. The largest holdings of most people. We are in for months if not years of pain. I don’t know who is celebrating.
Maybe months not years. Remember We got all those good things Biden did about to kick in.
 
Hall85, no one is spiking the football. I think this 90. Day pause is 90 days of the market going no where. Big moves up and big moves down. This uncertainty is awful. The China escalation is awful. All what was done was to prevent a crash. But we aren’t moving back to where we were unless this gets cleared up. And that’s not going to happen soon. Trump lost his leverage.

Meanwhile, he is killing Apple. The largest holdings of most people. We are in for months if not years of pain. I don’t know who is celebrating.
This seems like a reasonable assessment:

https://www.axios.com/2025/04/10/trump-tariff-pause-3-factors

We are still early in the game.
 
From Axios:
Reality check: The financial markets jumped Wednesday, but Trump's on-again/off-again tariff policy has estranged friend and foe alike, leading many to wonder why the administration couldn't have been more measured, clear and focused with its tariff plan.

We're early in the game but the Administration does not come off looking good.
 
Trump blinks once again exempting all electronics from China tariffs. This is very welcomed news for sure. Trump is slowly realizing that his tariff policy is a mistake.
 
No doubt tariffs are wreaking havoc on businesses big and small as they try to navigate potential impacts and make decisions. Similar to the pandemic, some large companies will shift sourcing from China to other countries where they can.

Saw an interview with a woman who owns a small retail specialty business and she has assessed every product in her store and where it comes from. She has proactively started sourcing products strictly from US based suppliers to avoid potential increases and she’s also actively promoting products made in the U.S..

One of Amazon begins identifying U.S. sourced products on each page? The tariffs on China could force companies to change the dynamic and increase manufacturing volume here. Eventually this will lead to capacity investment but there could be a short term boost to production numbers.

There are going to be more exemptions, like with cell phones, but if the result is a high tariff on China, maintaining the 25% or whereabouts on automobiles and 10% with select countries, that would be significant.
 
No doubt tariffs are wreaking havoc on businesses big and small as they try to navigate potential impacts and make decisions. Similar to the pandemic, some large companies will shift sourcing from China to other countries where they can.

Saw an interview with a woman who owns a small retail specialty business and she has assessed every product in her store and where it comes from. She has proactively started sourcing products strictly from US based suppliers to avoid potential increases and she’s also actively promoting products made in the U.S..

One of Amazon begins identifying U.S. sourced products on each page? The tariffs on China could force companies to change the dynamic and increase manufacturing volume here. Eventually this will lead to capacity investment but there could be a short term boost to production numbers.

There are going to be more exemptions, like with cell phones, but if the result is a high tariff on China, maintaining the 25% or whereabouts on automobiles and 10% with select countries, that would be significant.
Trump can’t win this. What he will loook for is some small deal and claim it a victory. He is looking for an off-ramp. The entire tariff plan was a disaster from the start done implemented from people who have not a basic understanding of the economy. Unfortunately, he alienated his allies when in this time he needs our allies like The EU to help him.

While you saw that story, I saw a woman who is moving her entire operation to Germany due to the tariffs on China.
 
Trump can’t win this. What he will loook for is some small deal and claim it a victory. He is looking for an off-ramp. The entire tariff plan was a disaster from the start done implemented from people who have not a basic understanding of the economy. Unfortunately, he alienated his allies when in this time he needs our allies like The EU to help him.

While you saw that story, I saw a woman who is moving her entire operation to Germany due to the tariffs on China.
cern, you and I are not experts on trade and tariffs, but you can predict the outcome….lol.
 
cern, you and I are not experts on trade and tariffs, but you can predict the outcome….
Yes I can predict t it. Because this has been tried before. Look it up with the Smoot HawleyTariffs of 1930. It ended ina disaster just like will happen if Trump continues down this disastrous policy.
 
Saw an interview with a woman who owns a small retail specialty business and she has assessed every product in her store and where it comes from. She has proactively started sourcing products strictly from US based suppliers to avoid potential increases and she’s also actively promoting products made in the U.S..

when is the interview where she talks about going out of business because she makes no profit?
 
Anyone see the headlines about China calling us peasants? I couldn’t find it and was hoping Tweeter would circulate
 
I think Trump has an ace up his sleve in mineral rights if legislation makes mining minerals which like oil we are loaded with minerals that have not been getting mined enough.The Critical Mineral Consistency Act is a step in that direction.
 
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