We Needed That

[sami]

It’s always amazing to me that being objective is just not welcome. I’ve been on these boards since 1999. I’ve seen some things.

It’s ok that I think the team is seriously flawed and there are things I think Sha needs to work on. And hold on, wait for it, I still get excited for and prefer a win over a loss. One win where we damn near gave it away toward the end giving up 12-24 from 3 just doesn’t erase what I’ve seen for the first 10 games, sorry. The only reason our defense didn’t cost us is because we were hitting shots, many undefended. Missouri’s defense may have been more porous than ours.

 

[dehere23]

So is it OK to be happy that 3 of our starters had excellent offensive games yesterday resulting in a W, and acknowledge that we are going to have other games where shots fall and we beat actual good teams, but the question will be how often we can do that and whether the defense gets fixed (since giving up 87 to a decent Mizzou team isn’t great and the D hasn’t really been there).

I don’t think there is anything negative in that whatever and numerous post-game posts fall into that bucket.

Now once posters start going back and forth of course other stuff is going to come out.

 

[jack 1970]

As goes Dawes so goes the season.

He'll pull some out for you and he'll have you pulling your own hair out in other games.

Lost most of my hair watching him in the first 10 games.Lets see his level of repeating the game 11th performance.

 

[jack 1970]

We have said that about kadary too. He was pedestrian for him today. But dre was real good. Dylan great too. 6 boards and 6 assists for him. And though he started and finished poorly dre was real good too. We have to shoot well. Today we shot better than well. 5 guys in doubles and four guys with 6 boards or more.

The time kr sat late were not fun...coleman defense picked on today.

Colemans defense was really bad yesterday but so was the entire teams three point defense,Have to keep our offensive production up to compensate.

 

[jack 1970]

Is still rather see Coleman and Sanders get his minutes.

In a brief appearance Sanders seemed lost on defense.

 

[sami]

That's one poster. Does said poster dictate the rest of the threads?

For me, I try and post fair and balanced opinions. Nowhere on this board or on the Trove did I go overboard on the win. I called it as I saw it. A decent win by a flawed team that had not played well to date.

That said, reading the boards this morning it seems that too many contributors are looking to focus on the negative when we almost wired to wired a comparable team on the road.

Criticism is fair. But sometimes let's enjoy a game that went well knowing that consistent efforts like last night are needed for it to continue.

Very enjoyable game, from an offensive perspective. Our lack of 3 defense is hugely concerning, looking terrible in a win.

Missouri is not good, given the -1.5 spread in a virtual home game. We played pretty well on offense, very good passing, hitting open shots. Got sloppy with the lead with 5 minutes left, but pulled it together. How horrible would Kadary’s decision to shoot in the closing minutes going into the trees with an early shot clock have been if he had missed. We have a long road but last night was a good step.

 

[Halldan1]

Lost most of my hair watching him in the first 10 games.Lets see his level of repeating the game 11th performance.

Jack, first 10 games.

Jack the rest of the season.

 

[TheHall87]

As always there's good and bad.

We scored 93 points, shot 59% from the floor and made 23-33 two-point shots and 10-23 threes. That's the first time we've broken 90 against a P6 opponent since January 2022 when we lost to DePaul 96-92 five days after defeating UConn 90-87 in OT.

We saw what we can look like when we get some threes to fall. Once Missouri had to respect the outside shot, it opened up lanes to get into the paint. Maybe it shouldn't be a surprise that Dawes (five) and DAW (two) were a combined 7-7 inside the arc.

We did struggle defensively (12-24 on threes) but also held them to 45% overall and 16-38 on two-point shots. While MU had 15 offensive rebounds they only scored seven second chance points. We had 14 second chance points on 12 offensive boards.

Lastly, we got little from the bench -- 33 minutes in total with four points (1-4/0-3/2-2) with three rebounds, one assist, two turnovers and six fouls. Sha necessarily rode the starters heavily and nearly paid for it. Dawes and Addae-Wusu logged 38 minutes each while Richmond played 36. It looked like fatigue set in near the end of the game and we started getting sloppy.

A small point but we had two timeouts remaining during that late stretch. It might not have been a bad idea to use one to give the starters a short rest. Maybe use the full to get guys off their feet for a minute.

 

[radecicco]

Mizzou’s late run was ignited by three or four things that SHU did or did not do.

1. We fouled way too much giving Mizzou way too many free points at the line. Unfortunately Coleman got burned by the experienced player more than once late.
2. Dre’s unredeemable foul on a 3 point shooter late when he had no chance to make a defensive play.
3. Sanders and Coleman getting mixed up on switch that resulted in a baseline drive and a wide open lay up.
4. Sanders dribbling too deep and throwing a bad pass when he simply needed to slow the ball down.
5. Dre’s turnover at mid court.
6. Mizzou making two Hail Mary lay ups and a 1/11 3 point shooter hitting a big one.

All that said, I think the only TO we had from the 6 minute mark was Dre’s. Overall we handled their pressure fairly well. Just wish Wusu didn’t end up with the ball.! Plus Kadary making two huge plays at the basket that stopped Mizzou cold. And making enough FTs to seal the win. Frankly, IMO, the final score was closer than how the actual game was played.

 

[hallwins]

Mizzou’s late run was ignited by three or four things that SHU did or did not do.

1. We fouled way too much giving Mizzou way too many free points at the line. Unfortunately Coleman got burned by the experienced player more than once late.
2. Dre’s unredeemable foul on a 3 point shooter late when he had no chance to make a defensive play.
3. Sanders and Coleman getting mixed up on switch that resulted in a baseline drive and a wide open lay up.
4. Sanders dribbling too deep and throwing a bad pass when he simply needed to slow the ball down.
5. Dre’s turnover at mid court.
6. Mizzou making two Hail Mary lay ups and a 1/11 3 point shooter hitting a big one.

All that said, I think the only TO we had from the 6 minute mark was Dre’s. Overall we handled their pressure fairly well. Just wish Wusu didn’t end up with the ball.! Plus Kadary making two huge plays at the basket that stopped Mizzou cold. And making enough FTs to seal the win. Frankly, IMO, the final score was closer than how the actual game was played.

We did to Missouri what every P6 school has done to us.

 

[ivyhillparkk1963]

Mizzou’s late run was ignited by three or four things that SHU did or did not do.

1. We fouled way too much giving Mizzou way too many free points at the line. Unfortunately Coleman got burned by the experienced player more than once late.
2. Dre’s unredeemable foul on a 3 point shooter late when he had no chance to make a defensive play.
3. Sanders and Coleman getting mixed up on switch that resulted in a baseline drive and a wide open lay up.
4. Sanders dribbling too deep and throwing a bad pass when he simply needed to slow the ball down.
5. Dre’s turnover at mid court.
6. Mizzou making two Hail Mary lay ups and a 1/11 3 point shooter hitting a big one.

All that said, I think the only TO we had from the 6 minute mark was Dre’s. Overall we handled their pressure fairly well. Just wish Wusu didn’t end up with the ball.! Plus Kadary making two huge plays at the basket that stopped Mizzou cold. And making enough FTs to seal the win. Frankly, IMO, the final score was closer than how the actual game was played.

One minor addition Dylan got an offensive rebound and should have taken back out to burn clock. Instead tried to go back up with it and ball was knocked off him out of bounds.

 

[Halldan1]

Frankly, IMO, the final score was closer than how the actual game was played.

I would agree with everything you note but the last sentence.

SHU was in control for nearly the entirety of the game, leading from around the 5th minute or so until the end.

On two occasions in the second half, one as late as the 5 minute mark they had a 19 point lead which was whittled down to 4 with a few seconds to go.

To me this was a near wire to wire job and the final score was as close as Missouri got with the one exception very late when the Pirates allowed Missouri to score an uncontested basket.

 

[radecicco]

I would agree with everything you note but the last sentence.

SHU was in control for nearly the entirety of the game, leading from around the 5th minute or so until the end.

On two occasions in the second half, one as late as the 5 minute mark they had a 19 point lead which was whittled down to 4 with a few seconds to go.

To me this was a near wire to wire job and the final score was as close as Missouri got with the one exception very late when the Pirates allowed Missouri to score an uncontested basket.

Agree. Maybe I didn’t phrase my last sentence clearly. We played much better than the final score indicated. SHU completely outplayed Mizzou from the point being down 16-10.

 

[PirateFan94]

Yesterday Coleman really struggled on defense and Sanders (-14) played poorly in his short time on the court.

Young players need consistency and more often than not that only comes with experience.

All the more reason to play them as much as possible this season. We’re going nowhere.

 

[PirateFan94]

In a brief appearance Sanders seemed lost on defense.

So what? Let him learn in game. Let’s be honest, we’re not going anywhere this season. Lucky if we get an NIT bid.

 

[PirateFan94]

Glad to see Dawes have a good game. Even when he was struggling and the target of so much criticism, he didn't seem to hang his head. I've become a fan.

Good game? He was 30% from 3. Still giving up a ton of looks from 3. Honestly I’d rather see Sanders lost on the court learning for next year than a 5th year senior shoot 30% from 3. Keep in mind he hit his first 2 so was 2-9 rest of the game. This is is suppose to be our knock down shooter. I’m done with the Dawes experiment. Adea-Wasu played well. Efficient. Good defense.

 

[hallwins]

Good game? He was 30% from 3. Still giving up a ton of looks from 3. Honestly I’d rather see Sanders lost on the court learning for next year than a 5th year senior shoot 30% from 3. Keep in mind he hit his first 2 so was 2-9 rest of the game. This is is suppose to be our knock down shooter. I’m done with the Dawes experiment. Adea-Wasu played well. Efficient. Good defense.

He was almost 37% from 3.

 

[mbraue]

I think the good ball movement helped our shooters.

The zone really forced them to pass and avoid over dribbling. I like it - hope more teams mix it up on us like that. Of course, hitting 3s like we did made them go back to man, which helps Khadary's game more.

 

[radecicco]

All the more reason to play them as much as possible this season. We’re going nowhere.

Ha, ha. Then you’d be the first guy to complain that we’re losing too many games. I like Coleman, but yeah, go ahead and start him, watch him get ripped apart against experienced BE wings and lose his confidence. Saying to start Sanders shows that you’re not a serious poster.

 

[radecicco]

Good game? He was 30% from 3. Still giving up a ton of looks from 3. Honestly I’d rather see Sanders lost on the court learning for next year than a 5th year senior shoot 30% from 3. Keep in mind he hit his first 2 so was 2-9 rest of the game. This is is suppose to be our knock down shooter. I’m done with the Dawes experiment. Adea-Wasu played well. Efficient. Good defense.

4/11 from 3 is 36%, just under Dawe’s career average. Any one above 35% is considered a good 3 point shooter. Another basic fact about college hoops that apparently you’re not aware of.

 

[PirateFan94]

4/11 from 3 is 36%, just under Dawe’s career average. Any one above 35% is considered a good 3 point shooter. Another basic fact about college hoops that apparently you’re not aware of.

He hit 2 early and was awful the rest is the game.

Ha, ha. Then you’d be the first guy to complain that we’re losing too many games. I like Coleman, but yeah, go ahead and start him, watch him get ripped apart against experienced BE wings and lose his confidence. Saying to start Sanders shows that you’re not a serious poster.

Absolutely not. This is a lost season. Get them as much experience as possible. Starting this 5 we aren’t making the NIT so what’s the point? I’m not a serious poster? Why because I accept reality? This team is not good especially the upper classmen. They won’t finish the BE schedule above.500. Want to wager on that?

 

[PirateFan94]

He was almost 37% from 3.

Sorry he hit one late after missing 7 of 8. He hit his first 2 shots then missed 7of next 9. This will be his best game for the next month. Just bench him already.

 

[Halldan1]

Stop trolling. You are no SHU fan.

Take this as a warning!!!!!

 

[shu67]

I agree with PirateFan94. I would definitely start Coleman and Sanders and have Dylan and Dawes off the bench the rest of the season. I really like to see the youngsters get much more playing time and experience. Why is that a bad thing if you are not an NCAA caliber team? No one is picking SHU as a top BE team let alone an NCAA team.

We can all wish for it but that does not make it happen.

 

[SPK145]

4/11 from 3 is 36%, just under Dawe’s career average. Any one above 35% is considered a good 3 point shooter. Another basic fact about college hoops that apparently you’re not aware of.

I would disagree, the average for all of Div. 1 is 33.9% so 35% would not be considered "good" but slightly above average.

 

[donnie_baseball]

Allowing 87 points is pretty scary. I thought defense was going to be our bread and butter. Stole that one but it didn’t Show Me much of a recipe for the rest of the season. OK … really glad for a win!

Stole it? Was there really ever any question of the outcome after the 10-0 run early in the second half? No, there wasn't.

 

[Halldan1]

I agree with PirateFan94. I would definitely start Coleman and Sanders and have Dylan and Dawes off the bench the rest of the season. I really like to see the youngsters get much more playing time and experience. Why is that a bad thing if you are not an NCAA caliber team? No one is picking SHU as a top BE team let alone an NCAA team.

We can all wish for it but that does not make it happen.

Of course you do. You are about as negative as he is. You were suspended previously and you are going back to your negative ways.

Balance your posts and there will be no issues. The season in the Big East has yet to begin and you guys are harping on it being over. That's what trolls do.

Continue to post as you two are and steps will be taken.

 

[shu67]

I am not saying the season is over at all. All I am saying is I would like to see the development of the guys that we will count on next year. I know you are a big fan of Coleman's as am I. He can't develop sitting on the bench. We all see his great skill and potential.

 

[donnie_baseball]

Sorry he hit one late after missing 7 of 8. He hit his first 2 shots then missed 7of next 9. This will be his best game for the next month. Just bench him already.

He shot 4-11. You can't discount the first two because they went in! Holy cow.

 

[SPK145]

Negativity aside (It's their right), the idea of going with a youth movement now is crazy, no real athlete or fan wants to ever give up, let alone this early.

 

[lloyde dobler]

I would disagree, the average for all of Div. 1 is 33.9% so 35% would not be considered "good" but slightly above average.

I think you’re both saying the saying the same thing, just a matter of semantics.

 

[Halldan1]

I am not saying the season is over at all. All I am saying is I would like to see the development of the guys that we will count on next year. I know you are a big fan of Coleman's as am I. He can't develop sitting on the bench. We all see his great skill and potential.

This is far more than just 1 post.

You have gone back to your old ways of criticizing everything after we agreed that you would balance your opinions to return here.

I have been doing this far too long to not know when I am getting played. That said, I do not like to ban posters, but continue in your current way and that will happen again. And this time it will be permanent.

Same goes for PirateFan94.

I will not comment further. So please do not bother to respond. The ball is in your court.

 

[lloyde dobler]

Negativity aside (It's their right), the idea of going with a youth movement now is crazy, no real athlete or fan wants to ever give up, let alone this early.

Not only is it crazy, it’s just not done in the sport.

This isn’t post-trade deadline major league baseball, it’s college sports.

 

[radecicco]

Sorry he hit one late after missing 7 of 8. He hit his first 2 shots then missed 7of next 9. This will be his best game for the next month. Just bench him alread

I am not saying the season is over at all. All I am saying is I would like to see the development of the guys that we will count on next year. I know you are a big fan of Coleman's as am I. He can't develop sitting on the bench. We all see his great skill and potential.

I’m excited about Coleman as are most fans. So far this year he’s been playing 12-20 minutes a game. That’s pretty darn good for a P6 college freshman. Way more than most get so he is getting time for development.

 

[TheHall87]

There's more that goes into this than just winning games and developing players. And like everything else in this world, it's not as simple as people want to make it out to be. There are consequences to every decision.

Your still trying to develop Dawes and DAW. Benching them or seriously curtailing their minutes is fine if the players that are replacing them are performing better. There's no real evidence of that, certainly against the BE level opponents that we've played.

So now what you're doing is hurting our chances to win games -- which makes the whole team look bad -- and you damage the prospects of Dawes, DAW and perhaps others of furthering their careers beyond Seton Hall.

Secondarily you potentially damage relationships with their high schools and handlers for other talented players.

A coach's job is to win games this year -- as well as in the future.

 

[hallwins]

There's more that goes into this than just winning games and developing players. And like everything else in this world, it's not as simple as people want to make it out to be. There are consequences to every decision.

Your still trying to develop Dawes and DAW. Benching them or seriously curtailing their minutes is fine if the players that are replacing them are performing better. There's no real evidence of that, certainly against the BE level opponents that we've played.

So now what you're doing is hurting our chances to win games -- which makes the whole team look bad -- and you damage the prospects of Dawes, DAW and perhaps others of furthering their careers beyond Seton Hall.

Secondarily you potentially damage relationships with their high schools and handlers for other talented players.

A coach's job is to win games this year -- as well as in the future.

And in the world of NIL, planning for future is a fools errand.

Coleman played 28 minutes two games ago.
Did you want Sha to sub Dawes and Wusu during their best games of the year to give Coleman experience?

 

[shupat08]

Not only is it crazy, it’s just not done in the sport.

This isn’t post-trade deadline major league baseball, it’s college sports.

I mean, to be fair, it's now sports with athletes paid to play with colleges on the front of the jerseys

 

[lloyde dobler]

There's more that goes into this than just winning games and developing players. And like everything else in this world, it's not as simple as people want to make it out to be. There are consequences to every decision.

Your still trying to develop Dawes and DAW. Benching them or seriously curtailing their minutes is fine if the players that are replacing them are performing better. There's no real evidence of that, certainly against the BE level opponents that we've played.

So now what you're doing is hurting our chances to win games -- which makes the whole team look bad -- and you damage the prospects of Dawes, DAW and perhaps others of furthering their careers beyond Seton Hall.

Secondarily you potentially damage relationships with their high schools and handlers for other talented players.

A coach's job is to win games this year -- as well as in the future.

And you‘re not doing it get a higher draft pick next year.

You’re only damaging you and your school’s reputation.

 

[HallGuy23]

4/11 from 3 is 36%, just under Dawe’s career average. Any one above 35% is considered a good 3 point shooter. Another basic fact about college hoops that apparently you’re not aware of.

35% was considered good 15 years ago. Not anymore. Centers are expected to hit 35%. Get with the times

 

[HallGuy23]

There's more that goes into this than just winning games and developing players. And like everything else in this world, it's not as simple as people want to make it out to be. There are consequences to every decision.

Your still trying to develop Dawes and DAW. Benching them or seriously curtailing their minutes is fine if the players that are replacing them are performing better. There's no real evidence of that, certainly against the BE level opponents that we've played.

So now what you're doing is hurting our chances to win games -- which makes the whole team look bad -- and you damage the prospects of Dawes, DAW and perhaps others of furthering their careers beyond Seton Hall.

Secondarily you potentially damage relationships with their high schools and handlers for other talented players.

A coach's job is to win games this year -- as well as in the future.

Develop Dawes and Wusu??? What! You actually think these guys have room to improve? They are what they are. Development for them ended a long time ago. You sound like you want to hand out participation trophies