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Whoopi

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Pirata

All American
Dec 21, 2009
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I am curious to see how this plays out.

This has exposed her myopic self centered view of racism.

It does not say much for her intellect.

Too bad Behar didn't say it. I'd rather see her canned.

I am sure they are all dying to support her but the utter ignorance of her comments precludes that.

Oh well...I gotta go....Emily in Paris is on.
 
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Pirata said:
I am curious to see how this plays out.

This has exposed her myopic self centered view of racism.

It does not say much for her intellect.

Too bad Behar didn't say it. I'd rather see her canned.

I am sure they are all dying to support her but the utter ignorance of her comments precludes that.

Oh well...I gotta go....Emily in Paris is on.
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The only thing worse than her ignorant statements about the Holocaust, were her tone deaf apologies.
 
I don't think we should be in the business of punishing people for their opinions, no matter how misguided. But is ironic to see the a member of the political left getting some of their own medicine.
 
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shu09 said:
I don't think we should be in the business of punishing people for their opinions
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True, but her comments were not an opinion. She was presenting an analysis. Her analysis was devoid of any logic or basis of truth or fact, ergo it is fair game for criticism.
 
Pirata said:
True, but her comments were not an opinion. She was presenting an analysis. Her analysis was devoid of any logic or basis of truth or fact, ergo it is fair game for criticism.
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Yeah, she just had no understanding of the history there. Just thinks that Jewish people are in the "white" bucket so it couldn't possibly be about race. To be fair, I think if you're grouping buckets into white, black, brown etc... most people would probably put most Jewish people into the white bucket. I am assuming that was the cause of her error, but not understanding the racial aspect of the holocaust is pretty pathetic.
 
shu09 said:
But is ironic to see the a member of the political left getting some of their own medicine.
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It was only a matter of time. 2 basically in one week with the idiot actress who was pissed they shut down roads for the fallen police officer. It's going to happen again. It may be a white person saying something insensitive, it may be a black person saying something insensitive. Whatever it happens to be next time, I hope we can say, this is a good person who said something stupid, they're going to apologize and we are all going to move on. Yes words matter, but we're all human and we all make mistakes. I honestly wish they didn't suspend Whoopi, at the same time whenever I see clips of that show she always seems to be a woman filled with rage.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
It was only a matter of time. 2 basically in one week with the idiot actress who was pissed they shut down roads for the fallen police officer. It's going to happen again. It may be a white person saying something insensitive, it may be a black person saying something insensitive. Whatever it happens to be next time, I hope we can say, this is a good person who said something stupid, they're going to apologize and we are all going to move on. Yes words matter, but we're all human and we all make mistakes. I honestly wish they didn't suspend Whoopi, at the same time whenever I see clips of that show she always seems to be a woman filled with rage.
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this is probably a necessary step to making that happen. far left is a large driving force of cancelling anyone for anything. when they start getting cancelled we may see that change start to happen.
 
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SHUSA said:
this is probably a necessary step to making that happen. far left is a large driving force of cancelling anyone for anything. when they start getting cancelled we may see that change start to happen.
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I disagree. I think letting Whoopi go might have been the better alternative. As I said I think she is a woman filled with rage and if she gets canceled I believe she's going to want to get everyone else canceled.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
I disagree. I think letting Whoopi go might have been the better alternative. As I said I think she is a woman filled with rage and if she gets canceled I believe she's going to want to get everyone else canceled.
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but she wants everyone cancelled anyway
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
It was only a matter of time. 2 basically in one week with the idiot actress who was pissed they shut down roads for the fallen police officer. It's going to happen again. It may be a white person saying something insensitive, it may be a black person saying something insensitive. Whatever it happens to be next time, I hope we can say, this is a good person who said something stupid, they're going to apologize and we are all going to move on. Yes words matter, but we're all human and we all make mistakes. I honestly wish they didn't suspend Whoopi, at the same time whenever I see clips of that show she always seems to be a woman filled with rage.
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I agree...cancelling has gotten out of hand especially when it gets selective and arbitrary.

We do make mistakes, and especially in this hi-tech world where a comment can be viewed by millions within seconds, it becomes a ready, fire, aim mentality.

I find Roseann Barr and Whoopi both repulsive, but my wife made me laugh this morning and we did a quick wiki check since both were on ABC shows:

When Barr made the offensive comments about Valerie Jarrett, she was fired and the ABC President issued a statement that Barr's comments were "abhorrent, repugnant and inconsistent with our values." And she was fired.

Goldberg dismisses the Holocaust (where 6 million people died) and the ABC President issues a statement saying her words were "wrong and hurtful"....and a two week suspension.

To your point, neither should be fired/suspended. But it's where we are.
 
SHUSA said:
but she wants everyone cancelled anyway
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Exactly so I would think if she realizes she got a break, there would be a 2% chance it would cause a change of heart. I see no change coming and no step forward in getting to a point where the left says this cancel culture garbage needs to go away.
 
In fairness she has a history of ignorant statements not an excuse but in context.Her famous speech that Biden should name his wife Jill as surgeon general because Jill was a great medical doctor which she corrected after a commercial when her staff told her Jill was an education doctor.You don’t have to be smart to be on the view as they prove every day but you should read a little bit about people before you praise or condemn them.
 
ed odowd said:
In fairness she has a history of ignorant statements not an excuse but in context.Her famous speech that Biden should name his wife Jill as surgeon general because Jill was a great medical doctor which she corrected after a commercial when her staff told her Jill was an education doctor.You don’t have to be smart to be on the view as they prove every day but you should read a little bit about people before you praise or condemn them.
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I would agree with you there. As the old line goes, I think Whoopi is as dumb as a bag of hammers.
 
Speaking of ignorant comments:

sarandon.jpg
 
HALL85 said:
I think Whoopi is as dumb as a bag of hammers.
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Understatement of the year.

ed odowd said:
you should read a little bit
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That's the essence of it. My brother and I often joke about the Peter Sellers movie "Being There". The main character, Chauncey Gardner, is a dolt who "likes to watch TV".

Had Whoopi done an ounce of reading/research about the holocaust she would know that race was the motivation behind the extermination of Jews, Poles, Slavs, and Romas. It was the sick epitome of racism. They didn't just treat these races poorly, they murdered them on grand scale.

They also killed Communists, Socialists, disabled, homosexuals, Catholics, Jehovah's witnesses, and more, for political reasons. While these would not be considered racial, the aforementioned would preclude any intelligent being from saying that the holocaust was not about race.

If you get your knowledge solely from "watching TV" and Hollywood, you become Chauncey Gardner.
 
Yes. Beyond being an abhorrent and tasteless Tweet, it highlights her stupidity.

In the original Tweet she re-Tweeted, the guy refers to the funeral as an example of Fascism.

It is unconscionable how low people can go.
 
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Pirata said:
Understatement of the year.



That's the essence of it. My brother and I often joke about the Peter Sellers movie "Being There". The main character, Chauncey Gardner, is a dolt who "likes to watch TV".

Had Whoopi done an ounce of reading/research about the holocaust she would know that race was the motivation behind the extermination of Jews, Poles, Slavs, and Romas. It was the sick epitome of racism. They didn't just treat these races poorly, they murdered them on grand scale.

They also killed Communists, Socialists, disabled, homosexuals, Catholics, Jehovah's witnesses, and more, for political reasons. While these would not be considered racial, the aforementioned would preclude any intelligent being from saying that the holocaust was not about race.

If you get your knowledge solely from "watching TV" and Hollywood, you become Chauncey Gardner.
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Holocaust was worse than slavery, that is simply too much for Whoopi to grasp. I love the irony of cancelling your own, brings a smile.
 
Pirata said:
Yes. Beyond being an abhorrent and tasteless Tweet, it highlights her stupidity.

In the original Tweet she re-Tweeted, the guy refers to the funeral as an example of Fascism.

It is unconscionable how low people can go.
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The Hollywood equivalent should be “shut up and act”. Sarandon, Goldberg, DiNiro, Barr, Milano, Baldwin…. Stupid and uninformed is no way to go through life.
 
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With more recent cancelations I have been thinking about freedom of speech.

I disagree with her remarks and find them ignorant, but I wonder if her 1st Amendment rights were violated with her suspension.

I realize there are limits on speech that are constitutionally legal but in this case she was being paid to express her views and has been doing so for years. Someone at the station deemed her views wrong and they suspended her.

Mark Lye is another similar example. He is paid talk show host and he said something that the station did not agree with and was fired. https://thespun.com/more/golf/sports-radio-host-fired-for-comments-on-womens-sports. While the remark was less than polite, it did express his view on the WNBA and he was being paid to express his views. I guess he's have to find a situation where he used distasteful remark but the station agreed with the view and hence did nothing.

I remember Don Imus and "nappy headed hoes". In that case it was disparaging remark vs a view and his firing seems justified.

At Will employment laws are what is that is allowing for these suspensions and firing.

I wonder if one of these days someone is going to challenge this and how far the challenge will go.
 
I read the story about Mark Lye earlier this week and was shocked he was fired. He simply expressed an opinion that many share, albeit not a polite one as you said. We live in strange times.
 
Pirata said:
With more recent cancelations I have been thinking about freedom of speech.

I disagree with her remarks and find them ignorant, but I wonder if her 1st Amendment rights were violated with her suspension.

I realize there are limits on speech that are constitutionally legal but in this case she was being paid to express her views and has been doing so for years. Someone at the station deemed her views wrong and they suspended her.
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There is a common misconception as just demonstrated by your post concerning the First Amendment. The First Amendment only applies to the government abridging free speech. Whoopi works for a private company and can be suspended for violating company policy.

I see this with people talking about Twitter and Facebook. This isn’t the government. Thus the first amendment does not apply.

Now you can start to talk about whether it was sound policy to suspend her. But not because of free speech rights.
 
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Pirata said:
I wonder if one of these days someone is going to challenge this and how far the challenge will go.
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Not very. 1st amendment only protects you from government.

An option for Whoopi to sue would be if there was an example of someone saying something equally as ignorant and not being punished and she could argue unequal treatment. I've only seen snippets of that show, but I'd bet she could find plenty of examples if she wanted to go that route. I doubt she would want to though.
 
Went out for a bike ride yesterday and at one point “Power in the Darkness” by The Tom Robinson Band came on my Spotify playlist (college playlist which was late 70’s). That song would be cancelled today.
 
Pirata said:
You obviously did not read or comprehend the post.
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No. I understood ur post completely. You were just incorrect as I politely explained.

You said this:

"I disagree with her remarks and find them ignorant, but I wonder if her 1st Amendment rights were violated with her suspension."

I said the First Amendment only applies to government. Therefore, the First Amendment is not implicated. For example, a person working for CBS can be fired for burning the flag because it violates company policy. But, the government cannot fine or jail or do anything for that speech.

You then said this:

I realize there are limits on speech that are constitutionally legal but in this case she was being paid to express her views and has been doing so for years. Someone at the station deemed her views wrong and they suspended her."

But again the limitations of Constitutional speech only applies to Government. Not to companies employees which is governed by company policy.

You then want to double down and say this:
"At Will employment laws are what is that is allowing for these suspensions and firing."

At will employment has nothing to do with allowing for these types of suspensions and firings At will employment which governs very few employees is that an employee can be terminated at any time for any reason as long as it is not an illegal reason. To the contrary, Whoopi is probably a contractual employee. Contractual employees cannot be fired for any reason. If the employer does fire the contractual employee before the end of the contract date, the employer must pay the employee for the reminder of the contract. An at-will employee can be fired and that there is No obligation to play the employee for payment for any future time.
 
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Thank you for your thoughtful response.

Your point about contract vs At Will was well made and certainly will affect the situation.

Note they I concluded with, "I wonder if one of these days someone is going to challenge this and how far the challenge will go." which was the essence of the post.

Based on your comments, they can't challenge it on 1st amendment grounds. Fine. Can they challenge it on other grounds?

Your point about contract vs at will was well made and that would certainly make a difference.

You wrote, "which is governed by company policy."

That is also my point. I am sure they have a brood policy that will site but at some point will someone challenge it.

Serious question: What policy do you think Whoopi violated? She provided her opinion (which I don't agree with) that the holocaust was not about race. Do they have a policy that says you can't provide an opinion counter to the opinion the network. If the policy she violated was being insensitive who gets to draw that line?

So assuming the suspension does not violate her contract they are certainly free to decide who goes on air and who doesn't.

In the case of Mark Lye, he was fired. I don't know if he had a contract or was At Will.

Not being confrontational with you , but I'd be curious to hear your opinion on what policy he may have violated there. He basically made a comment that he didn't' like the WBNA and was fired for it.

Are they making up policies after the fact? I am not a labor attorney and I don't know every detail about wrongful termination.

The larger question is when will people start to push back on cancel culture and how?
 
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cernjSHU said:
At will employment has nothing to do with allowing for these types of suspensions and firings At will employment which governs very few employees is that an employee can be terminated at any time for any reason as long as it is not an illegal reason.
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Au contraire, at will employment governs tons and tons / most employees.

cernjSHU said:
Contractual employees cannot be fired for any reason. If the employer does fire the contractual employee before the end of the contract date, the employer must pay the employee for the reminder of the contract.
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That's not technically legally true, many employment contracts stipulate how pay is handled in the event the employee is fired for or without cause with many including mitigation language.
 
Pirata said:
Serious question: What policy do you think Whoopi violated? She provided her opinion (which I don't agree with) that the holocaust was not about race. Do they have a policy that says you can't provide an opinion counter to the opinion the network. If the policy she violated was being insensitive who gets to draw that line?
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There will be something in her contract to protect the brand. She could be penalized for any statements made that the brand does not want to be associated with. Doesn't have to be an explicit rule.

Though in my opinion, the company overreacted to prevent potential public backlash.

Pirata said:
The larger question is when will people start to push back on cancel culture and how?
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When enough people are supportive of companies who do not cave to the pressure and boycott the ones who do.
 
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Pirata said:
Thank you for your thoughtful response.

Your point about contract vs At Will was well made and certainly will affect the situation.

Note they I concluded with, "I wonder if one of these days someone is going to challenge this and how far the challenge will go." which was the essence of the post.

Based on your comments, they can't challenge it on 1st amendment grounds. Fine. Can they challenge it on other grounds?

Your point about contract vs at will was well made and that would certainly make a difference.

You wrote, "which is governed by company policy."

That is also my point. I am sure they have a brood policy that will site but at some point will someone challenge it.

Serious question: What policy do you think Whoopi violated? She provided her opinion (which I don't agree with) that the holocaust was not about race. Do they have a policy that says you can't provide an opinion counter to the opinion the network. If the policy she violated was being insensitive who gets to draw that line?

So assuming the suspension does not violate her contract they are certainly free to decide who goes on air and who doesn't.

In the case of Mark Lye, he was fired. I don't know if he had a contract or was At Will.

Not being confrontational with you , but I'd be curious to hear your opinion on what policy he may have violated there. He basically made a comment that he didn't' like the WBNA and was fired for it.

Are they making up policies after the fact? I am not a labor attorney and I don't know every detail about wrongful termination.

The larger question is when will people start to push back on cancel culture and how?
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Now you are touching upon what is really at the heart of things. A lot of company policies are broadly written which results in litigation. So-called moral clauses can be an example. I believe we are starting to see a turn against cancel culture. At least I am hoping for that. Examples of calling for Joe Rogan to be fired or Whoopi to be fired are examples. Can’t someone be wrong with their opinion and keep their job? I think they should have had Whoopi on the next day confronted with people to educate her and the audience how she was wrong. That would have been better than giving her a time out. Yes there is a line which can be crossed. I don't think these are examples of those lines.
 
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SPK145 said:
Au contraire, at will employment governs tons and tons / most employees.


That's not technically legally true, many employment contracts stipulate how pay is handled in the event the employee is fired for or without cause with many including mitigation language.
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Yes you are absolutely right that most employees are deemed "at-will."

I was thinking of true at-will employment. There are all sorts of restrictions that corporations impose upon themselves with regard to firing in policies and employee Handbooks that can also restrict a company firing an employee. NJ courts have also deemed some employment as implied contracts even though it was said to be at-will. If a handbook says you can't be fired unless for cause, then there is an implied contract restricting the employer to only firing for cause even though it was an at-will employment. Other restrictions is that you can't fire someone for union organizing. So you are right, I was thinking about all the other restrictions which limit employers so that it is not truly at-will.

With regard to contractual employees, the employment is governed by the terms of the contract. I was giving broad stroked on being fired without cause.
 
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