Why do you.....

[Halldan1]

think that Xavier is better than the Hall. Or why do you think SHU will finish ahead of Xavier?

I'll assume that most everyone has Nova as the best team in the league until proven otherwise.

I ask since the majority of our readers have those three teams at the top of the conference in a previous thread asking for the preseason conference standings.

 

[Halldan1]

SHU's roster

http://www.shupirates.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball


Xavier doesn't have their 2017/18 roster out yet but here's last season's plus you add in their recruits
4 star Paul Scruggs
4 star Naji Marshall
3 star Elias Harden
3 star Jared Ridder
3 star Kentrevious Jones

http://www.goxavier.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball

 

[dcPirate]

I'll give it a shot as I think they will be at/near the top of the Big East Standings next year.

1. Coaching - they have one of the top Head Coaches in the country (imo)
2. They have Bluett, Macura, Gates, Goodin and O'Mara back (who played really well for them down the stretch).
3. Goodin was thrust into a major role when he may not have been ready and I would expect him to be really improved next year.
4. They have two 4 stars coming in (ranked nationally by 247 sports as #31 PG and #55 SF)
5. Did I mention coaching? Before anyone jumps on that, I realize Willard has a better head to head record vs Mack the last couple years. I just love Mack as a HC and the question is why I think they will be a factor near the top of the BE.

I'm not sure Xavier will finish above The Hall but I think both teams have the potential to be right there top 3. I think both teams have some things that need to be answered. For The Hall it's how is the PG spot handled most of the year (and how effective is the play there) as well as how much does The Hall get from the 4.

For Xavier, if the PG coming in is that good, can Goodin transition to the 2? What do they get from their 4 spot? Does Gates play more 4 or do they slide the frosh in there and play a little small? Gates is the type who likes to play outside as he hit a bunch of 3's vs The Hall out there last year. Gaston wasn't an all conference player, but he was a solid 7.5 pts/6 rebs/game guy who brought toughness. They will miss that as there doesn't appear to be anyone who can bang down low like he did.

 

[mjs429]

They also have Enes Kanter's younger brother transferring in this year as well.

 

[garyshu71]

The SHU team needs to start making foul shoots for one thing. And taking nights off like last years St. Johns game at MSG has got to stop. Mostly that's on the players and their will to win and be great. Until they clean up that kind of stuff I can't place them above V or X.

 

[Hall91]

I personally think it's a push between us and Xavier.

Why shouldn't we think we're better than Nova? They have a mix of experience and youth, but I don't think anyone is going to be an immediate replacement for Hart who gave them a decent amount of everything.

 

[SPK145]

I think Xavier is just a little more well-rounded as a team and have a better class of newcomers coming in.

 

[Halldan1]

Clearly it's seems to be a 3 team race with maybe Providence making some noise as well. But IMO only SHU and X have a shot at dethroning Nova. Of course health will be a factor but for now let's assume every team has all of its players available.

My gut is that it will be a dog fight between the Hall and Xavier for second place with maybe the more experienced Pirates edging out the Musketeers. It might even come down to their head to head meetings as there is every chance that both teams could end up with the same record.

Both squads have depth with SHU probably having the better defense and maybe Xavier the more efficient offense.

Xavier will probably have to lean more on their freshmen than does the Hall. But SHU has an issue at the point with their star 2G changing positions. And until Carrington can prove he can run the offense efficiently that might balance the scales between the two teams.

I believe that after initial problems in the OOC schedule Carrington, like Whitehead in 2015/16, will man the PG position ably. If he does the Pirates are the better team. If not, then X is superior.

 

[Flnj86]

Angel Delgado will dominate any other front court in the Big East. (Not even close). Add our returning core players plus new players and we will be battling for the top spot.

 

[Seton75]

I think we are the best team in the league, so sue me...I expect us and XU to battle Nova for the reg season title this year. We both return terrific core players and add lots of talent. I am prone to overestimating us in the summer (it makes me happy...) but I think this year is gonna be special. I am confidant in Khadeen being ready and able to lead us to the higher ground, and Angel and Desi are ready too.

 

[Halldan1]

How good would Xavier have been If Sumner came back? Or SHU if Whitehead played as a senior at the Hall?

But that's college BB nowadays. The exceptional players leave early for a chance at the big payday and for many you can't blame them.

 

[bigraym]

I love SHU's 4 returning senior, majority have been starting and/or playing significant minutes for a 4th straight year. These type teams seem to prosper in crunch times. X has vast talent and depth coupled with an excellent incoming class, ranking wise surpassing our incoming freshman. Nova is always there, I see a 3 team race finishing as follows:
1) SHU
2) Villanova
3) Xavier

 

[Fishjam]

Xavier is going to be really tough. They have a ton of perimeter talent and will likely play like Nova does often with 4 shooter/slasher/ball handlers and 1 power player.

Our identity remains the same. We'll crush teams on the boards and I hope Willard reduces the minutes of our Big 3 to about 30 per game so we can get after teams defensively and create the type of havoc we did in 2016.

Our offense and depth should be much improved and allow us to pull away from teams instead of playing so many close games.

I think we will be slightly better than Xavier although I think there are 4 Top 25 teams in the BE when you include Providence. The next group of 4 teams are all very capable of breaking through also. BE will be a blood bath.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Xavier is more consistent, typically doesn't turn the ball over as much, and make their free throws. Those things win games. I wouldn't be shocked if we beat them twice but they finish ahead of us in the standings. I actually expect to beat them twice because I am very confident our guys will be up to play X. It's those Depaul, SJU, and Georgetown games that scare me.

 

[Halldan1]

Last two years since we turned the program around

SHU vs DePaul 4-0
SHU vs Georgetown 4-0
SHU vs SJU 3-1

 

[hallgrad80]

The limiting factor for me is what we'll get out of our play at the point guard position. Had we an experienced player returning at that position , or had brought in a quality graduate senior or a high quality freshman who could give us quality minutes from Day one then I would have us ahead of Xavier. While I believe that Angel is the best big man in the Conference I just don't see him dominating teams like Nova, Xavier or PC . I see him giving us an edge against those teams but not dominating them.

 

[dcPirate]

Last two years since we turned the program around

SHU vs DePaul 4-0
SHU vs Georgetown 4-0
SHU vs SJU 3-1

I still shake my head that The Hall somehow escaped MSG two years ago with what would have been a dagger of a loss for their NCAA hopes vs STJ. Obviously it became null given they won the BET, but getting a W that day was absolutely like stealing from the Johnnies... Had they lost that game and NCAA hopes appeared dashed - who knows what could have happened down the stretch (including the BET).

Some of those other games were barn burners too, especially the 2 late regular season games last year versus GTown and DePaul (when they almost coughed up that 20+ point lead). But wins are wins and there were too many years to think about where The Hall ALWAYS seemed to lose those games.

 

[halltheway]

lets just hope Ish is 100%..I think he is the turning point for top honors.

 

[Halldan1]

Last two years since we turned the program around

SHU vs DePaul 4-0
SHU vs Georgetown 4-0
SHU vs SJU 3-1

At DePaul W 82-79 W 80-66
Home vs DePaul W 87-56 W 78-74

At Georgetown W 68-66 W 72-64
Home vs Georgetown W 62-59 W 69-61

At SJU L 78-70 W 62-61
Home vs SJU W 86-73 W 79-60

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Last two years since we turned the program around

SHU vs DePaul 4-0
SHU vs Georgetown 4-0
SHU vs SJU 3-1

True but just look at last years games between the 3 teams. With 4 minutes to go neither Georgetown game was a lock for a win. The first Depaul game was an absolute butt kicking. The second Depaul game was an absolute butt kicking and then became a 1 possession game late in which I believe Jones came up with HUGE steal late. I know the SJU game at home looks nice in the final score, but they seemed to get it going late in the first game but I believe our 25-30 point lead was too big for them to even make it a game, but the prudential center got very quiet as they cut it down to about 10-12 points and really took it to us with our starters on the court. Then they also controlled and won the game without Ish at the Garden. So 5-1, but it wasn't an easy 5-1.

 

[shu09]

True but just look at last years games between the 3 teams. With 4 minutes to go neither Georgetown game was a lock for a win. The first Depaul game was an absolute butt kicking. The second Depaul game was an absolute butt kicking and then became a 1 possession game late in which I believe Jones came up with HUGE steal late. I know the SJU game at home looks nice in the final score, but they seemed to get it going late in the first game but I believe our 25-30 point lead was too big for them to even make it a game, but the prudential center got very quiet as they cut it down to about 10-12 points and really took it to us with our starters on the court. Then they also controlled and won the game without Ish at the Garden. So 5-1, but it wasn't an easy 5-1.

I agree with your general point. Those games always scare me because there is little to gain and a lot to lose (maybe not so much with St. John's next year, but I still have my doubts).

I'm hopeful that it will be somewhat easier for us to overwhelm teams this season with our depth, experience and improved offense (it should be, anyway). But no game is easy in this league, especially on the road (as we saw at all three of the above mentioned opponents last season).

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

I agree with your general point. Those games always scare me because there is little to gain and a lot to lose (maybe not so much with St. John's next year, but I still have my doubts).

I'm hopeful that it will be somewhat easier for us to overwhelm teams this season with our depth, experience and improved offense (it should be, anyway). But no game is easy in this league, especially on the road (as we saw at all three of the above mentioned opponents last season).

In your post, the biggest word you used is depth. I've been as big Willard fan even during the rough times. But I think the difference between being great and being good will be determined by Willard not the players. If people don't get put on the bench for lack of focus, lack of intensity, lack of execution, etc. Depth cannot only be used to rest players, it has to be used a way to ensure we play disciplined ball. Depth will not only wear down the opponents but give the guys on the court insentive to be on their A game at all times. If the seniors are just going to get 30 minutes strictly on their talent, that's a problem imo.

 

[halltheway]

True but just look at last years games between the 3 teams. With 4 minutes to go neither Georgetown game was a lock for a win. The first Depaul game was an absolute butt kicking. The second Depaul game was an absolute butt kicking and then became a 1 possession game late in which I believe Jones came up with HUGE steal late. I know the SJU game at home looks nice in the final score, but they seemed to get it going late in the first game but I believe our 25-30 point lead was too big for them to even make it a game, but the prudential center got very quiet as they cut it down to about 10-12 points and really took it to us with our starters on the court. Then they also controlled and won the game without Ish at the Garden. So 5-1, but it wasn't an easy 5-1.

We lost 4 games or so that we could have won.
Better teams usually win the close games.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

We lost 4 games or so that we could have won.
Better teams usually win the close games.

That game could be played 1,000 ways. We could say other teams got lucky we had no Ish for some games. We could say we got lucky no Watson and Bluiett the 2nd time we played their teams. The point I was making we don't consistently put away the teams we are clearly better than. You let a team hang around that's when upsets happen and Georgetown had chances in both games to beat us. Depaul had a chance to beat us. The very good teams don't let the bottom 3 teams in their conference hang around long enough to sniff a chance to win the game late 25% of the time. In 4 out of 6 games against SJU, Depaul, and Georgetown, the other team had a chance to win. Credit our mental and physical toughness for getting it done, but that should be time for the walk ons to get in.

 

[dehere23]

Xavier went to the Elite 8 last year. They return their best players, minus Sumner who they didn't have when they went to the Elite 8. They bring in at least 2 kids who are unquestionably viewed as more significant contributors year 1 than anyone we have coming in the door (Scruggs and Kanter). They have an excellent coach, and all that program has done is win - far more than we have recently. Add in the transfers and incoming freshman class, and they should be picked higher than us.

Providence is the competition for Seton Hall IMO for 3rd best in the league. Don't think there was much difference between the two teams last year. We return everyone except Madison and add some nice freshman pieces, particularly Cale. They return everyone and add some really good freshman pieces, including a PG who was more highly regarded than Cale (based on HS rankings).

We can play with anyone in the league for sure. But taking off the "homer" glasses for a second, you can easily rank Seton Hall 4th and it not be an insult.

How good would Xavier have been If Sumner came back? Or SHU if Whitehead played as a senior at the Hall?

But that's college BB nowadays. The exceptional players leave early for a chance at the big payday and for many you can't blame them.

 

[Halldan1]

No problem with the opinion. But big one with the homer or blue tinted glasses comments I read here.

It's coming to the point on this site that people almost feel the need to apologize first before praising the Hall.

Maybe the pundits who have good things to say about the team are right and they base that on their past knowledge of the game.

In short, Seton Hall is good, very good and those that agree don't have to be colored as homers. Doesn't mean they're always correct, but it does mean their opinion holds weight.

 

[dehere23]

I agree. You can be a die hard like we are and still be objective. I think one can objectively say we are either third or fourth right now going into next season as rosters are currently constituted. And I don't think saying second makes one unobjective per se, I just don't agree with that.

No problem with the opinion. But big one with the homer or blue tinted glasses comments I read here.

It's coming to the point on this site that people almost feel the need to apologize first before praising the Hall.

Maybe the pundits who have good things to say about the team are right and they base that on their past knowledge of the game.

In short, Seton Hall is good, very good and those that agree don't have to be colored as homers. Doesn't mean they're always correct, but it does mean their opinion holds weight.

 

[Johnny Biggs]

The reason I started reading/posting here years ago was because a non Seton Hall fan could voice their opinion without being senselessly attacked. Many here are/were fair minded and level headed and it was a refreshing change. I hope that never changes. You can still root for your team endlessly and with great passion and discuss basketball topics in a polite, intelligent manner. No matter who the person you're discussing the topic with, is a fan of. Just my $0.02